Logging in and out

[Very Ape 748]

Aside from locking your survivor to one server, this is the only thing I can think of that would prevent ghosting.

Foreword: This isn't a suggestion pertaining to PvP zones, or anything like it. If anything, I hope this feature could make the game seem more authentic (keep reading to find out how) and reduce combat-logging and exploiting. I'm perfectly aware that some of the problems this feature would attempt to eliminate would still occur-- but it would occur significantly less. I'd also like to mention that while I found a few suggestions similar to this, I don't think they had quite the same aim.

The Suggestion: Create zones surrounding all cities, buildings, potential fortresses, castles and other player hot-spots that disable the abort function. This would also extend to outlying lands surrounding such areas, and not just immediately inside them, so potential attackers/snipers won't be at an advantage (ie, capable to combat-log themselves, while their prey cannot.) Anyone with the cowardice to abort in combat because they think they've been spotted would have to leave the area. For example: I'm sitting atop sniper hill in Elektro, shooting people inside.

In the case of the attacker/defender (fortress, such as Orlovets factory) or sniper/snipee (Elektro, Cherno) scenarios, this feature would thusly:

• Disallow players inside of Elektro to escape their imminent deaths by simply hiding in a building and aborting. The current combat-log preventative feature would have snipers shoot every thirty seconds or so, even when their target is hiding, to restart the timer. That's unfair to the sniper, who would otherwise have no reason to keep shooting at the dirt, wasting ammo, pulling aggro, and revealing his position.
  
• Disallow the sniper, thinking he's been spotted, from simply logging out and ghosting in on another server. He would have to leave the area if spotted to log out, and return if he wants to set up another sniper nest.
  
• Disallow ghosting by the attackers, in the case of a group defending a base or fortress they've taken over, such as the factory near Orlovets.
  
• Disallow combat-logging by said defenders.
  

Another issue this feature would address is dying while in the loading screen. I'll explain with an anecdote.

I was in the Vybor supermarket, alone, looting. I suddenly realized that there was a survivor in a ghillie suit and an M14 AIM standing in the corner, his gun pointed at me. I immediately shot him, knowing fully well he had just logged in, but fearful for my life. I realized how unfair it was that he'd have to die because of such a mishap (he wasn't ghosting, he'd just chosen a dumb stop to abort.) Now, obviously this will eliminate ghosting, to a certain extent. The same thing happened to me atop Devil's Castle, where a survivor magically appeared in front of me, even as my teammates were guarding the stairwell, and I shot and killed him.

One would argue that that survivor deserved to die, and that we shouldn't cater to stupidity. But would have happened if he shot me first? That wouldn't have been fair, since I canvased the whole supermarket and was keeping an eye on both doors. If I hadn't happened to turn around, I probably would have died because of some ninja that appeared out of thin-air. That's hardly fair, even the other hardcore players would agree.

I would suggest not making the areas it is possible to log out in being mapped, as that would surely be exploited. This feature would also work best if the flashing indicator (pistol) was removed altogether.

In anticipation of a few arguments against the implementation of this feature:

• Attackers will not have the added advantage of being able to abort just because they haven't been spotted from their sniper nest. The outlying areas of a fortress will be included in the non-abort zone.
  
• "People can still ghost in the woods!" "The supermarket thing could happen anywhere, even in the woods!" It's less likely to happen there, and even so, you should always be cautious when you're not surrounded by four walls. Threats can appear from anywhere, not just the entrances.
  
• "omfg stop whinin u just hate sniprs theyre realistic to the game and your just hating geting sniped becaus your not good enough to get ur own sniper peopl like you want to make the game so easy its hardcor dude deal with it" This suggestion doesn't aim to eliminate sniping, even on the coast. I just think snipers should actually have to move into position, unseen, if they want to do so. They shouldn't have the ability to just materialize out of thin air. The fear of a bullet braining me from half a mile away is one I dearly enjoy, Let's just make snipers use real caution in avoiding detection while getting in and out of position.
  
• "you think it is almost time to quit anyway and you hear potential player chatter/footsteps and want to avoid confrontation, also this idea would make the big cities potential death traps for survivors against bandits, run into a bandit ambush, no way out"If you play like this, you should find another game. Aborting to avoid confrontations or escape confrontations is pathetic.
  

Edited December 13, 2012 by Very Ape

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

A few suggestions

When players or anyone who logged out during combat should be repositioned on the map far away from their combat logged area. Put them in a really crap and far place.

My favorite method for combat logging would be to have players profiles note / record when they combat logged (Using the current timer and possible integration of player accounts / profiles in SA) and the next time they go back and play DayZ they have to wait an hour before they can join any server.

That will drastically stop players from being soft cry babies. No one would want to wait before they can play and less loggers means more decent play time. They can create another profile all they want, they wont have the kit or loot they had in their other character!

[Very Ape 748]

I think your second suggestion could be easily countered by simply clicking the server, when they know they've combat-logged (right after logging out), and will wait the hour. I do understand the point though, and it's a good idea. However, I think a better punitive measure would be killing them. When you combat-log, it's because there's usually a huge risk of dying. By just blocking them from combat-logging altogether, the killers get their loot, and the other one dies.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Why this is a bad idea; short answer. You have to go somewhere, cant abort because your in a town, or you think it is almost time to quit anyway and you hear potential player chatter/footsteps and want to avoid confrontation, also this idea would make the big cities potential death traps for survivors against bandits, run into a bandit ambush, no way out, sorry but this is not a good idea regarding overall gameplay, i would give thumbs down if i could. Simply because you are trying to make this game more friendly for the ghilley campers on top of buildings of huge cities etc. more unfriendly for bambies and people with bad gear, and making getting gear more risky than it should be.

[Very Ape 748]

Why this is a bad idea; short answer. You have to go somewhere, cant abort because your in a town, or you think it is almost time to quit anyway and you hear potential player chatter/footsteps and want to avoid confrontation, also this idea would make the big cities potential death traps for survivors against bandits, run into a bandit ambush, no way out, sorry but this is not a good idea regarding overall gameplay, i would give thumbs down if i could. Simply because you are trying to make this game more friendly for the ghilley campers on top of buildings of huge cities etc. more unfriendly for bambies and people with bad gear, and making getting gear more risky than it should be.

Aborting to get out of a bandit ambush? Aborting to avoid confrontation? The point of this feature is to get rid of that. It's cowardly.

As for the rest; don't go on any adventures if you know you have to log out.

Furthermore, if there's no threat and you're in a town... Leave! It takes only a few minutes, if there aren't any other players.

Most of what you outlined is combat-logging. I bolded it for you.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Very Ape

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

i would give thumbs down if i could.

This can suffice :emptycan:

As for OP good suggestion as I'm not a fan of loggers, If someone combat logs it should be simple and hilarious-i.e. they log and all gear falls to the ground where they were and empties the character.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

ERM????

Have you got the right game m8?

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Aborting to get out of a bandit ambush? Aborting to avoid confrontation? The point of this feature is to get rid of that. It's cowardly.

As for the rest; don't go on any adventures if you know you have to log out.

Furthermore, if there's no threat and you're in a town... Leave! It takes only a few minutes, if there aren't any other players.

Most of what you outlined is combat-logging. I bolded it for you.

Wanting to avoid people is cowardly? especially when your about to log out anyway? but you would be forced seek another place to log out, you really are a dense one arent you :S Leaving a town can take anything from 1-10 or maybe 15 minutes, all depending on what kinda gear you got to deal with zombies, how large the town is etc. so thats not an option if you absolutely have to go, say, you get an urgent call from the nature, or you need to catch a buss etc. Sorry but your suggestion is lacking too much, and it punishes too much.

[Shadow Man 142]

I like the idea. Combat logging and ghosting are the two most unrealistic events to happen. The fact that you can have a building or a base completely secure and a player can just materialise inside is utterly rediculous.

The only drawbacks I can think of are that in the event of losing connection you would pay heavily (happens maybe once a week to me). Unless the server can make the decision based on how a disconnection happens.

Also, how far does this region need to extend? Whats the maximum distance a sniper can sit from Cherno or Elektro and still shoot at people? This means either a huge area of log restriction, or a very irregular shape of log restrition based on line of sight. You could have to run 1000m to get out of the no-log zone.

[codeakira 0]

for ghosting, i think its possible to log players which server they played last right? if they decide to ghost, disconnects, find another server, goes back in to previous server and finds out he have to wait 3 hours to go back to that server again or higher and if some smart ass happens to have a friend on another server and asked for help to hit him from behind, there should be a random teleport if in case you spawn near the player radius and teleports you outside the radius around 800m would suffice i think. there should be a notification that your spawning too close to a player and will be teleported. if you choose to accept then....

Combat log should be longer so that the attacker to have enough time to manuever assault tactics and not rush towards the target and get killed in the process.

in addition to ghosting, in order for server to identify potential players being flagged is that they already logged in and logged out of server, joined another server and comes back too quickly from the previous server,like within 30 minutes. then you are flaged as ghosting and will be able to connect to previous server in few hours.

basicly idea is there. Logically. Any better ideas?

Edited December 9, 2012 by codeakira

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Not to mention if you are the explorer/survivor type like me and my buddy who travel together, and who prefer to log out in a building at the outskirts of the city to wait for further exploration later on, this thing just fucks up the playability so much, persistent in the game description means, you continue where you left off, if this gets implemented, they need to remove that word, that word happens to be one of the bigger ones, players look at when they pick their zombie/survival games, so therefore i dont think this is a good idea, not to mention, it is not going to happen.

And i cant distress enough how bambi and lowgeared people are affected, this game makes it an extremely unfriendly for them, not to mention how long getting said gear takes anyway these days, with all the asshats going to some easy mode server, gearing up, then jumping to some random server for their daily "bambi hunt"

[codeakira 0]

in order for this thread to be productive we must approach the problem logically and offer suggestions that would prevent unrealistic event from happening. we must understand that due to the limitations of our technology that we are bound to a limited capabilities. then we decide which one is logical and acceptable for a game. Ultimate goal is to make it a lot more closer to reality. less bickering would help a lot

[Shadow Man 142]

Its always been a thorn in my side, talking about a persistent world. A game where you can freely move to a low pop server, gear up and then go to another high pop server is not what I call a persistent world. Because of the vast number of servers available it basically means there is a huge loot pile somewhere just for you to go and grab stuff before returning back to where the action is. Thats not scavenging and suviving, its exploiting. Players should be locked to one server. Unless there is a better idea that creates a persistent world.

[Very Ape 748]

or a very irregular shape of log restrition based on line of sight.

That's what I had in mind. The zone would apply to the biggest player hot-spots, of course. No need for that on secluded farmhouses.

And I completely agree, Shadow Man, and I dearly hope we get to see that in standalone.

Still unclear how this would hurt bambis. Everyone would be subject to this, and I can only see the high-geared players who combat-log or ghost while assaulting an important location being affected.

As for picking up where you left off. Cities are meant to be dangerous, I believe. I hope. Woods would be the ideal location to camp for the night, not in a city, however safe the building. I hope in standalone cities turn into the very pits of hell, but still a viable source for loot.

The inconvenience of not being able to log out in a city is trumped by the inconvenience caused by ghosting, combat-logging and ninja-snipers.

Avoiding confrontations in this game by logging out, whether or not the other survivors in question are friendly or not, is still combat-logging in my eyes. I imagine the atmosphere of a game where you suddenly hear footsteps, and don't know whether or not you're going to die. You hide, in a panicky haste, and waste for the footsteps to recede. And then there's you: Logs out in case it turns dangerous. Kind of takes something out of the game, if you ask me.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Very Ape

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

IT would hurt bambies because if they keep spawning to the same place, how many times would you be willing to spawn near to a large city, like elektro, only to die 10-15 minutes later from a sniper bullet, because you cant wait out the chicken shits at the rooftops by logging out, and dont tell me that BS "it spawns you to different place everytime" just no, the worst spaw rows i have had, 7 times in row to kamenka, 8 times in row to elektro, 11 times in row to cherno(yes... fun times) not to mention most of the cities offer the best chance of finding some survival gear to start with, so here is what a bambi would be facing; Spawn to elektro for example, find an open residence, you loot it, and since you cant log out, and hear some rooftop campers, your forced to find a way out, even though the bandits dont know your there. Even if you managed to go into a spot of absolutely no interest to anyone, you would be forced to sit there... how many times do you think you would be willing to repeat this? if your BS system had been in place, i would have had to do this 3 times in a row at a worst time i can remember, and for god knows how long. this is one of many examples i could write, and i still believe abort lock will not come, as it will make this game less appealing to new players, and players who simply want to enjoy the game for the survival aspect, "yes look at us, surviving, in this corner, waiting for 2 hours, for the gunshots to stop, uh huh, really fun!"

[Shadow Man 142]

Spawn to elektro for example, find an open residence, you loot it, and since you cant log out, and hear some rooftop campers, your forced to find a way out, even though the bandits dont know your there. Even if you managed to go into a spot of absolutely no interest to anyone, you would be forced to sit there...

Sounds ace to me!

If I was a new player I would say my heart would be racing while I tried to figure out how to escape alive. This is a good example of a situation that is theoretically possible in real life. "You find yourself in a building and you hear voices nearby that you can tell are not friendly. What do you do?" Maybe your only hope is to make a run for it and hope for the best. Just imagine how memorable it would be if you actually made it to safety doging bullets all the way out of Cherno!

Its these siuations that are what DayZ are all about. Not find some loot then log out. Whats the point of playing the game? Honestly, what is it you want from DayZ? Because it sounds very different from what I and many other people want.

You also haven't thought that those campers might not have such an easy time. Remember, THEY cant log out either, and everyone knows that. First thing most players would do is check the popular sniper spots. I'll bet the numbers of rooftop snipers are reduced. As someone who never ever logs out in a town, if I have to shoot a zombie on top of the school, I don't stay up there long. You get a couple of players heading your way and you know there's gonna be trouble.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Sounds ace to me!

If I was a new player I would say my heart would be racing while I tried to figure out how to escape alive. This is a good example of a situation that is theoretically possible in real life. "You find yourself in a building and you hear voices nearby that you can tell are not friendly. What do you do?" Maybe your only hope is to make a run for it and hope for the best. Just imagine how memorable it would be if you actually made it to safety doging bullets all the way out of Cherno!

Its these siuations that are what DayZ are all about. Not find some loot then log out. Whats the point of playing the game? Honestly, what is it you want from DayZ? Because it sounds very different from what I and many other people want.

You also haven't thought that those campers might not have such an easy time. Remember, THEY cant log out either, and everyone knows that. First thing most players would do is check the popular sniper spots. I'll bet the numbers of rooftop snipers are reduced. As someone who never ever logs out in a town, if I have to shoot a zombie on top of the school, I don't stay up there long. You get a couple of players heading your way and you know there's gonna be trouble.

well theres the problem, as it is, game is not realistic enough to support this idea, if you need to wait for 2 hours. thats enough to bring you close to dying of thirst, so as far as game play goes, this suggestion flies against logic, if they fix the silly starvation and dying of thirst to be more realistic, where if you need to sit on your ass for a multitude of hours, you dont die of thirst or hunger there. If not, this system is a bad idea, Also, the snipers dont have to log out, they simply kill stuff that spawns fresh off the coast, and since you dont spawn with a mak, or any weapons to begin with, what? the group of people with flashlights in their hands come to them to die faster? i am sorry but

[Very Ape 748]

well theres the problem, as it is, game is not realistic enough to support this idea, if you need to wait for 2 hours. thats enough to bring you close to dying of thirst, so as far as game play goes, this suggestion flies against logic, if they fix the silly starvation and dying of thirst to be more realistic, where if you need to sit on your ass for a multitude of hours, you dont die of thirst or hunger there. If not, this system is a bad idea, Also, the snipers dont have to log out, they simply kill stuff that spawns fresh off the coast, and since you dont spawn with a mak, or any weapons to begin with, what? the group of people with flashlights in their hands come to them to die faster? i am sorry but

Who sits around near a building for two hours? Unless they're besieging you, of course.

And you're really overplaying the "bambi" card. This barely ever happens, unless you make a mad dash for Cherno, taking no mind of being stealthy, in a 50-player server. It's quite easy to get geared up without dying, regardless of how many other players are in the server. This game is meant to be difficult, and combat-logging to get around it is just ridiculous.

None of this changes the fact that what you detailed is combat-logging. It doesn't matter how much gear you have, or where you are. It's combat-logging.

I consider my suggestion a worthy one, since most of the complaints faced with any topics pertaining to fortification are "THEYCANGHOSTYOU."

Edited December 13, 2012 by Very Ape

[jcollins808 0]

this has allready been addressed by developers, the idea was to have the person sit for a set time after logging back in, not able to move. i understand that they are trying to stop the hacking, but i have had to cobat log as a person with a helo was launching hell fire missles at me.

[Very Ape 748]

this has allready been addressed by developers, the idea was to have the person sit for a set time after logging back in, not able to move. i understand that they are trying to stop the hacking, but i have had to cobat log as a person with a helo was launching hell fire missles at me.

We can assume that hacking won't be the problem it is now in standalone.