DayZ Standalone: Military guns and how they can balanced and fixed-modified

[logan23 118]

This is a discussion on higher end military guns….

Rocket has mentioned that guns being able to jam and having them setup to be able to modify in some way.

I know the military weapons can easily make the DayZ game to easy at times…

What I was thinking for the Standalone-

When you find these sniper rifles or high end military guns they are discovered with no ammo in them or they are damaged and need a part replaced.

The idea behind this is to make the player who sees that cool gun and say, hmmm should I pickup this powerful gun with damage/or no ammo or leave it and stick with what they have. Players need to make judgments where they might not be able to care this new empty gun with the gear they have already or see it as a good investment for the future.

I don’t know if you could take parts/if any of one gun type or similar type and place it on another to fix it? I’m not a gun expert so I would love for those who have a back ground in guns/rifles/ballistics to chime in and offer how this would work, or even if it’s possible?

What do you think,

[#Sleepy 572]

Adding a weapon damage system is realistic but not a main focus. Just take out the OP military grade .50 cals and everyone can be happy go fuck themselves.

[Toastedzen 80]

I really, really hope that the new standalone has some type of new grammar balancing system. Maybe something which adds or detracts to the play depending on the level of ignorance of the respective players.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

consider this, US army requires A MINIMUM! of 2000 rounds fired without malfunctions from their assault rifles, HK416 and couple of others do 3000+ and this can occur in only one rifle out of 20. so if you actually add the jamming mechanism, and want to keep it realistic... well you might as well not. since the bar for a severe malfunction(where you need to something else than just chamber/reload a new round) is that amount of rounds fired, NONSTOP! Hell the modern AK's can fire more rounds than the HK416 and still not malfunction.

Now ask yourself the question, when do you see someone in chernaruss carrying 2000+ rounds for any given assault rifle, and fire them all at you?

for more food for thought, The beretta 9mm has an average 17,500 rounds fired without malfunction, and that was with the old models, since then they have perfected the model and made it more durable.

I could see the use for jamming in Arma2, but DayZ... it wouldnt have large enough impact.

As far as the other weapons, such as sniper rifles, they pretty damn rugged also mostly, so actual chances are if you need to do anything, is zero the sights again, or replace it. unless you actually poured in vet clay into the firing chamber, or concrete to the barrel. IF i was dying and had my rifle with me, my last thoughts sure as hell would not be "I am gonna sabotage my rifle so no one cant use it..."

Edited December 5, 2012 by DiazWaffleCrabstro

[Pat aka Silas 12]

consider this, US army requires A MINIMUM! of 2000 rounds fired without malfunctions from their assault rifles, HK416 and couple of others do 3000+ and this can occur in only one rifle out of 20. so if you actually add the jamming mechanism, and want to keep it realistic... well you might as well not. since the bar for a severe malfunction(where you need to something else than just chamber/reload a new round) is that amount of rounds fired, NONSTOP! Hell the modern AK's can fire more rounds than the HK416 and still not malfunction.

Now ask yourself the question, when do you see someone in chernaruss carrying 2000+ rounds for any given assault rifle, and fire them all at you?

for more food for thought, The beretta 9mm has an average 17,500 rounds fired without malfunction, and that was with the old models, since then they have perfected the model and made it more durable.

I could see the use for jamming in Arma2, but DayZ... it wouldnt have large enough impact.

As far as the other weapons, such as sniper rifles, they pretty damn rugged also mostly, so actual chances are if you need to do anything, is zero the sights again, or replace it. unless you actually poured in vet clay into the firing chamber, or concrete to the barrel. IF i was dying and had my rifle with me, my last thoughts sure as hell would not be "I am gonna sabotage my rifle so no one cant use it..."

Do you ever used a gun?

Malfunction are ofter than you think.

Maybie it´s dirt, water or you done something wrong.

In real, you HAVE to clean your weapon after every firefight, if not, it will get some malfunction.

A MG have to cool down after 150 Rounds (by the MG3 which the germans are using) and this take some hours.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Do you ever used a gun?

Malfunction are ofter than you think.

Maybie it´s dirt, water or you done something wrong.

In real, you HAVE to clean your weapon after every firefight, if not, it will get some malfunction.

A MG have to cool down after 150 Rounds (by the MG3 which the germans are using) and this take some hours.

I have, and you on top of typing bad english, know only half truths, first of all.

HK416 and all the other guns(apart from M16 the original vietnam war model) are subject to those firing tests in varying conditions, they get dirt inside them high humidity conditions, you name it, so you know nothing apparently, even the humble sidearms the armies around the world choose for their line of work go through those tests, and beretta is not an exception, you know it is such a famous gun test, you could have googled it, gues you didnt have the brains for it ;D Also those weapons are subjected to those tests without cleaning them.

As far as your argument for MG's go, that is another half truth, the barrel needs to cooldown after a continous burst of 150 rounds And they need to be given the order to perform it, or the situation has to call for it, not to mention most army units pair up people for MG tasks, and in most countries they have a spare barrel, making it a smoother action.

The very idea of a machine gun is that you can keep shooting short or a bit longer controlled bursts to supress the enemy without having to reload, which is why most of the time emptying an ammo canister/belt is discouraged.

[psylnz 34]

If weapon's degradation and jamming are going to be realistic, then the amount they will weigh into gameplay is going to be so minimal, it won't be worth the bandwidth the server uses to track it.

[Cobb (DayZ) 55]

I don’t know if you could take parts/if any of one gun type or similar type and place it on another to fix it? I’m not a gun expert so I would love for those who have a back ground in guns/rifles/ballistics to chime in and offer how this would work, or even if it’s possible?

What do you think,

Bear in mind I'm speaking in general here. My experience leads me to say 'Probably, yes'. If you stripped four M4's and placed them on the ground, I am sure that you could swap bolt carrier groups, receivers etc generally with no problems. There might be the odd case of machining quirks making parts not fit perfectly, but on the whole I'd say it would work. Same same for the AK family providing you are swapping within the same weapon type, and for your M249/M240. I won't speculate on the M14 as I have not handled one.

Regarding the precision weapons; I think you could run into some problems here. Typically these rifles tend to made to higher standards, with tighter tolerances for less variation from shot to shot. I can't see a mechanical reason why the bolt from one M24 wouldn't fit another, but I doubt it would perform as effectively as the original. Swapping a broken sight for a working one I would assume would require re-zeroing, but not present a problem greater than having the correct tools.

ON CLEANING

Keeping a weapon in good working order takes more than just remembering how many rounds have been fired since it was last cleaned. People who rely on firearms to keep them alive don't shoot them until they fail to fire, they clean them. Regular stripping, cleaning and inspection gives the user an opportunity to make certain that all the bits and pieces are in good working order. After re-assembly, a function test allows the user the chance to be as certain as possible that the weapon will function when required. Maintenance is about prevention, not cure.

Stripping, cleaning and inspecting magazines is equally important for the same reasons above.

ON OPERATOR ERROR

An often overlooked factor in failures to fire is operator error. Incorrect seating of a magazine, incorrectly performed immediate action drills, general lack of confidence and familiarity with the weapon system are as important as dud ammunition and carbon fouling. The cleanest weapon in the world won't fire if the user does something badly out of sequence.

Roll all of that into a gaming environment and my guess is that the intention is to generate a mechanic which takes into account all of these factors (and others I have missed as well) and come up with a way to simulate the likelihood that any given instance of firing for any given weapon will succeed/fail based on how that weapon has been maintained.

Moral of the story: A well-maintained weapon system is more likely to go bang when you want it to.

[logan23 118]

I have started looking into the gun jamming issue,..and how it might show up and why for the SA

consider this, US army requires A MINIMUM! of 2000 rounds fired without malfunctions from their assault rifles, HK416 and couple of others do 3000+ and this can occur in only one rifle out of 20. so if you actually add the jamming mechanism, and want to keep it realistic... well you might as well not. since the bar for a severe malfunction(where you need to something else than just chamber/reload a new round) is that amount of rounds fired, NONSTOP! Hell the modern AK's can fire more rounds than the HK416 and still not malfunction.

Now ask yourself the question, when do you see someone in chernaruss carrying 2000+ rounds for any given assault rifle, and fire them all at you?

for more food for thought, The beretta 9mm has an average 17,500 rounds fired without malfunction, and that was with the old models, since then they have perfected the model and made it more durable.

I could see the use for jamming in Arma2, but DayZ... it wouldnt have large enough impact.

As far as the other weapons, such as sniper rifles, they pretty damn rugged also mostly, so actual chances are if you need to do anything, is zero the sights again, or replace it. unless you actually poured in vet clay into the firing chamber, or concrete to the barrel. IF i was dying and had my rifle with me, my last thoughts sure as hell would not be "I am gonna sabotage my rifle so no one cant use it..."

I think the confusion is that your looking at the gun you find in DayZ as being brand new.

The military and guns in general in DayZ were ones used before the outbreak and used during the outbreak, this means the guns you find are from soldiers and civilians who were killed by infected.

If this is true then you have cases where a soldier dies from an infected killing them and the gun is damaged or affected in some manner due to the attack.

There is also the case that some of these guns could be used by people who have been cut off from the rest of the world and holding up for months and was not properly cleaning or up keeping the gun since they were hold up in a shelter thinking everyday is their last. The idea of going to find a kit to clean or help keep the gun as mint condition or even good condition when leaving your hiding spot could mean death.

You might also have civilians who were miss using the weapon and also the not preferred ammo brand which could also lead to issues.

We have to remember that these guns have been through a lot, from miss use, no up keeping, weather, used to hit an Infected or a barrier to prevent one from killing the individual.

These are the conditions the guns in DayZ SA are in. The are not brand new and up kept. Depending the the timeline of the Infected outbreak and the start of DayZ SA, it could have been weeks, months, or even years.

Some of my finds on Gun Jams come from player's hand being weaken from constant firing which can cause the hands to move up and down which affects the way the gun discharges the shell/casing. There are other issues that can come up from magazines being deformed or springs needing to be replaced/affected.

I'm not finished with my research but the idea that guns would jam is very real and cold weather (if we have seasons or mountain snow zones) could mean a player to keep ever more constant care on the weapon due to the cold weather on key parts.

From what i learned:

Guns could be found damaged or needing a cleaning/maintenance right when you find them since it could have been months since the last person used it.

Gun jamming could be caused by being used often "weak wrists" that could lead to jamming.

Proper up keeping with cleaning, lubrication could also cause issues.

Springs and clips could have issues and lead to gun jamming/issues.

some Reference

http://www.wildernessmanuals.com/manual_2/chpt_6/3.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_4435335_additional-information-jammed-handguns.html

I'm still looking into with Rain- what affects it would have if a weapon is left to the weather for several months.

I'm also looking at what are possibilities about finding a same gun/rifle and removing a part of the newly found one and fixing the one you have with the new bolt, or other mechanism.

Also looking into sniper Scopes/lenses and how the possibly that in DayZ SA you will see a sniper rifle but there might be a X% chance that the lens is broken - meaning you must replace it.

let me know what you think,

But lets not get into a big, i know guns better then you argument and keep to looking at the question on guns and jamming - how it would work in DayZ.

thanks =)

Beans for all

[Happymrsnowman 52]

As a real life gun owner, I thin that a gun maintenance mechanic should be implemented. What other posters said about guns not jamming that often is completely true. All the guns I own are very well used and the amount of failiures I've had over thousands of rounds amounts to I dunno about 1-2%.

On the other hand, I think more subtle factors like accuracy and reload speed should definitely be affected. A dirty poorly maintained gun would not be as accurate, and would be more of a pain to handle since it wouldn't be as SMOOTH. It wouldn't necessarily jam, just perform worse in certain respects. And of course horribly maintained weapons would jam EVENTUALLY.

So, I think a tool that should be thrown would be a gun cleaning kit. Have it have limited uses, (5? 10?) and obviously have gun state degrade slowly VISUALLY. Like no icon for it, but your gun starts looking greasy or dirty or rusty. Maybe have a notebook function where you can access it and take a slow inventory of your gun, more than a quick glance, but something requiring a small menu like:

Gun: AK-47

Visual: A bit dirty, looks okay.

Internal: Gunk buildup visible on bolt, handguards damaged.

Overall: Could use mainteance.

[logan23 118]

As a real life gun owner, I thin that a gun maintenance mechanic should be implemented. What other posters said about guns not jamming that often is completely true. All the guns I own are very well used and the amount of failiures I've had over thousands of rounds amounts to I dunno about 1-2%.

On the other hand, I think more subtle factors like accuracy and reload speed should definitely be affected. A dirty poorly maintained gun would not be as accurate, and would be more of a pain to handle since it wouldn't be as SMOOTH. It wouldn't necessarily jam, just perform worse in certain respects. And of course horribly maintained weapons would jam EVENTUALLY.

So, I think a tool that should be thrown would be a gun cleaning kit. Have it have limited uses, (5? 10?) and obviously have gun state degrade slowly VISUALLY. Like no icon for it, but your gun starts looking greasy or dirty or rusty. Maybe have a notebook function where you can access it and take a slow inventory of your gun, more than a quick glance, but something requiring a small menu like:

Gun: AK-47

Visual: A bit dirty, looks okay.

Internal: Gunk buildup visible on bolt, handguards damaged.

Overall: Could use mainteance.

Very nice!

That would be interesting, having must guns start off in poor condition since they have been not used and left out there for months/years (depending on the game's outbreak timeline)

Players then need to have kits to improve/clean the guns and with limited use, this means you would have to make judgement if you want to clean your AK 47 or you sniper rifle, or handgun,...Players will need to decide is it better have gunX or GunY in top condition?

This would mean bandits and player killers would need a constant up keeping of the gun over the player who cleans it and doesn't use often?

Maybe a gun used often need maintenance more often verse one that is not used or not often? - if someone can say if this logic on this question would be correct/logical

Actually having guns start off needing some cleaning or maintenance, especially military grade would help deal with the issue of find X military gun and = easy win button?

With the idea of the Icon for the gun degrade, can this be done so the gun you use actively would represent the icon's state and if you change guns this Icon would change to match the new gun you switch too?

If a sniper rifle's lens is cracked or damaged, how hard would it be to replace? Would you need an exact same gun with proper working lens or can you actually make a new one from glass or other gun scopes?

[Happymrsnowman 52]

If a sniper rifle's lens is cracked or damaged, how hard would it be to replace? Would you need an exact same gun with proper working lens or can you actually make a new one from glass or other gun scopes?

Oh man, no way. Optics are incredibly complicated. Optic manufacture and maintenance is akin to clocksmithing. Incredibly delicate. Without a workshop you'd have nothing. If the standalone implements addons and has addon maintenance (such as scopes, and them getting damaged), then if your scope got damaged, your only option would be to throw it away. Not even kidding here, if a scope got cracked or dinged, your irons would be better than it at that point.

This would mean bandits and player killers would need a constant up keeping of the gun over the player who cleans it and doesn't use often?

Maybe a gun used often need maintenance more often verse one that is not used or not often? - if someone can say if this logic on this question would be correct/logical

Definitely. The more a gun is used the more maintenance it needs. As was said before, it's not like it would necessarily jam, but firing 100 rounds through your rifle makes it a LOT dirtier than firing 5 rounds through it. I think this would introduce a great dynamic because players that insist on PVP would have some choices to make in terms of hitting supermarkets/ other areas for gun maintenance equipment.

In addition, some guns IRL have corrosive ammo. If you look at some older 7.62 rounds (older than30 years) they are often corrosive, meaning if the gun is not cleaned SOON (1 day after firing) it will begin to rust the barrel. The more it is neglected, the worse it will get. I have seen guns that fired corrosive ammo (mosin nagants, older rifles) that weren't cleaned. After looking down the barrel...... Think tubgirl inside of your gun. Those rifles couldn't do much past 50 yards in terms of accuracy.

[logan23 118]

Oh man, no way. Optics are incredibly complicated. Optic manufacture and maintenance is akin to clocksmithing. Incredibly delicate. Without a workshop you'd have nothing. If the standalone implements addons and has addon maintenance (such as scopes, and them getting damaged), then if your scope got damaged, your only option would be to throw it away. Not even kidding here, if a scope got cracked or dinged, your irons would be better than it at that point.

Definitely. The more a gun is used the more maintenance it needs. As was said before, it's not like it would necessarily jam, but firing 100 rounds through your rifle makes it a LOT dirtier than firing 5 rounds through it. I think this would introduce a great dynamic because players that insist on PVP would have some choices to make in terms of hitting supermarkets/ other areas for gun maintenance equipment.

In addition, some guns IRL have corrosive ammo. If you look at some older 7.62 rounds (older than30 years) they are often corrosive, meaning if the gun is not cleaned SOON (1 day after firing) it will begin to rust the barrel. The more it is neglected, the worse it will get. I have seen guns that fired corrosive ammo (mosin nagants, older rifles) that weren't cleaned. After looking down the barrel...... Think tubgirl inside of your gun. Those rifles couldn't do much past 50 yards in terms of accuracy.

ok, so Damage Scopes is something that shouldn't be in game unless the player's sniper rifle gets damaged during a hatchet fight or gun fight as they using it? But if so there need to be places for the player to find scopes from a supply depot/military location or another way or the scope damage should not be an option.

Interesting with the corrosive ammo.

What would happen if a gun is left out in the rain and weather for months or a year without being touched by a person?

Does rain do anything in general to a gun?

Should swimming in water damage a gun? assuming guns or certain ones are not water proof? This would only go for guns not in the backpack.

[Happymrsnowman 52]

ok, so Damage Scopes is something that shouldn't be in game unless the player's sniper rifle gets damaged during a hatchet fight or gun fight as they using it? But if so there need to be places for the player to find scopes from a supply depot/military location or another way or the scope damage should not be an option.

Interesting with the corrosive ammo.

What would happen if a gun is left out in the rain and weather for months or a year without being touched by a person?

Does rain do anything in general to a gun?

Should swimming in water damage a gun? assuming guns or certain ones are not water proof? This would only go for guns not in the backpack.

Alrighty, lets go through it 1 by 1,

Yeah, I think if scopes are treated as separate entities on guns, able to be attached and detached (like they would be in real life) then sure, optics can be a military loot. In fact, some optics can be civilian loot, a regular 4x or 6x scope could be found in a house... potentially.

A gun left out in the rain would definitely be rusted, but it would depend on the gun. Some guns are better about the number of parts that would be damaged. For example polymer framed guns such as Glocks, can withstand more enviro abuse. On the other hand, certain soviet guns such as AKs, Makarovs and Mosins can be buried in a farmer's field in the country, be dug up 30 years later and still function due to their design. I think in general any gun picked up randomly in a barn is going to need to be cleaned up, where as a gun found in an apartment building would be in normal (if not perfect) shape.

let me tell you a story about my AK. I went to the range a few months ago. It was raining outside. I decided to shoot anyways. I shot probably about 300 rounds, My gun got very hot and somewhat wet (not soaked). I did not clean my gun. I intended to, but I just never got around to it. I took it out of its case 2 weeks later. It had rusted shut. I could not move the bolt back to load it properly. I had to disassemble it and thoroughly clean and lubricate it.

All that being said, after a thorough cleaning (about 45 minutes) the gun worked flawlessly without any hiccups. Draw your own conclusions. My conclusion is this: If it's raining, spray some WD-40 on the gun after the rain to displace the water and protect against rust. Problem solved.

[seddrik 44]

dunno... sounds overboard to have all this break down. If previous mechanics are any indication (i.e. eating every 30 min, uber fragile cars, poopy suggestions, etc.) then ull have ur gun breaking ever hour or less "just for realism and fun". I understand people want realism, but it becomes exagerated in a game and converts into GRINDING, which isn't as fun.

As for the suggestion to get rid of 50 cals... I really don't get why people keep saying that. I play daily and hardly ever get shot, much less with a 50 cal. I personally dont use one since it cant go with night vision & is not handy when looting. I rarely even use the DMR, favoring automatic rifles for zombies,or even a crossbow.

I honestly dont want the 50 cal taken out tho. You need that sense of "someone out there could be watching with a 50!!!" And I find it funny how people want "realism" but dont want to get one shot by a 50 cal...

Edited December 6, 2012 by Seddrik

[Happymrsnowman 52]

Seddrik, while what you say is somewhat right, you have to remember, the eating and drinking aspect of this game is one of the things that makes it most fun. From what we're discussing, guns would need maintenance only after use, and even then it would be optional. Essentially, not maintaining your gun would be either a choice by the player or simple negligence (or lack of equipment). Wouldyour gun failing you be an exciting aspect of the game? Yeah I think so. It wouldn't be necessary for you to do it, as opposed to eating, since you done NEED the gun to function in order to survive.

As far as the .50 cal thing, it's off topic, but since you brought it up, I'll go ahead and rebute it. You say it's nerve wracking to know someone with a .50 cal might be watching. SO WHAT? Why are they watching? Why is a sniper sitting in a hill, sniping at newbs who are trying to gear up. Or even not newbs, why is a sniper, JUST SITTING THERE WATCHING? DayZ has a strong PvP element, no denying that, but what purpose does a camping ass**** serve? Is he enriching gameplay by being a little god and striking people down with a gun that one shots?

If at least the .50 cals we NOT one shot kills then the sniping element would take skill and you could argue these "pro bandits" were assassins or something. But they're not. They're trolls, sitting out there with their one shot cannons, looking to do nothing but ruin the game for other people. The stress of it comes not from the fact that "oh someone might be watching so I should stay low" its comes from the fact that "oh, my elbow was sticking around the corner and some dillweed killed me"

They don't need to be removed, just made not one hit kills to ANY part of the body except head.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

I have started looking into the gun jamming issue,..and how it might show up and why for the SA

I think the confusion is that your looking at the gun you find in DayZ as being brand new.

The military and guns in general in DayZ were ones used before the outbreak and used during the outbreak, this means the guns you find are from soldiers and civilians who were killed by infected.

Never said it would be new, but think about this, if the Z outbreak was so sudden(you see soldiers still in full get up.) and how much ammo do you think they carried, in FSDF we have 1 magazine loaded, 8 with us, that is our combat pack load, takes us to 270 rounds for our RK(AK variant) so if it did see action, the gun you found that is, it was most likely short lived.

If this is true then you have cases where a soldier dies from an infected killing them and the gun is damaged or affected in some manner due to the attack.

There is also the case that some of these guns could be used by people who have been cut off from the rest of the world and holding up for months and was not properly cleaning or up keeping the gun since they were hold up in a shelter thinking everyday is their last. The idea of going to find a kit to clean or help keep the gun as mint condition or even good condition when leaving your hiding spot could mean death.

You might also have civilians who were miss using the weapon and also the not preferred ammo brand which could also lead to issues.

Arent you underestimating modern metallurgy just a bit right now, you can litelarry drive over some of the AK variants with a military truck, and it would still fire. Also even if they saw no action for months, but holed up in a shelter, would mean the conditions didnt change too much, not to mention the military guns found in the military installments, (due to not having a gun rack mechanism in game) could still be in the oil, making them extremely resistant to the elements. And keeping the guns in proper oil, not too much, not too little, where in an emergency you could fire it without cleaning the oil out, it would perform as expected, is drilled into the soldiers, not just here, but everywhere. Also a good soldier, doing a daily or weekly maintenance on an AK type AR, takes propably 10.15 minutes including time to set it up. Also there is an old saying which is rather true due to AK and all variants being designed to fire under any conditions(A deliberate step back was made in its design, instead of building a more refined weapon, they made it simpler to reach this) "the worst you can do to an AK is clean it"

Also as far as "not preferred ammo brand" goes, i think apart from a novice loader doing hand loaded rounds, or using rounds with poor quality metal casings in them(which militaries tend to avoid to the bitter end) i dont see a problem using a different manufacturers ammo, the propellant load may vary a bit, but all it has an effect on is the projectile velocity, in most cases a negligible difference.

We have to remember that these guns have been through a lot, from miss use, no up keeping, weather, used to hit an Infected or a barrier to prevent one from killing the individual.

These are the conditions the guns in DayZ SA are in. The are not brand new and up kept. Depending the the timeline of the Infected outbreak and the start of DayZ SA, it could have been weeks, months, or even years.

we can only speculate, but as the guns seem to me, apart from lee enfield, they look pretty well maintained.

Some of my finds on Gun Jams come from player's hand being weaken from constant firing which can cause the hands to move up and down which affects the way the gun discharges the shell/casing. There are other issues that can come up from magazines being deformed or springs needing to be replaced/affected.

I'm not finished with my research but the idea that guns would jam is very real and cold weather (if we have seasons or mountain snow zones) could mean a player to keep ever more constant care on the weapon due to the cold weather on key parts.

The modern AR's are usually subjected to temperatures below -35 celsius prior to cold test fire, AK, -50 celsius, you would propably need to go to either of the polar caps to get most of the Assault rifles to jam from cold weather. although it comes alot down to the oils you use, living in a northern country, we use oils that dont become too thick till it is -42 outside. The other major factor i would imagine is the ammunition failing. but still you need some extremely cold weather, the standard oils you can buy from gun shops around the world are usually safe to use between -20 and -25 for reference, here in finland, the coldest average day temperatures for the last 20 years, which has to last longer than 2 days, in southern finland is -26(know it because of my profession)

From what i learned:

Guns could be found damaged or needing a cleaning/maintenance right when you find them since it could have been months since the last person used it.

Gun jamming could be caused by being used often "weak wrists" that could lead to jamming.

Proper up keeping with cleaning, lubrication could also cause issues.

Springs and clips could have issues and lead to gun jamming/issues.

This on the other hand would have a huge impact on playablility, in most cases propably negative, do you really want to die 3-4 times during your rush to get good gear in 2 hours time, and have those attemtps foiled due to a RNG that desides the condition a gun is found at, Too many people would be discouraged to continue playing after events like that.

some Reference

http://www.wildernes...2/chpt_6/3.html

http://www.ehow.com/...d-handguns.html

Tl;dr;dw

I'm still looking into with Rain- what affects it would have if a weapon is left to the weather for several months.

I'm also looking at what are possibilities about finding a same gun/rifle and removing a part of the newly found one and fixing the one you have with the new bolt, or other mechanism.

Also looking into sniper Scopes/lenses and how the possibly that in DayZ SA you will see a sniper rifle but there might be a X% chance that the lens is broken - meaning you must replace it.

unless you litelarry keep your AR's or weapons barrel straight up all the time for days end in a rain, it wount have much of an impact, or if you keep the moving parts back while it rains.

let me know what you think,

But lets not get into a big, i know guns better then you argument and keep to looking at the question on guns and jamming - how it would work in DayZ.

thanks =)

Beans for all

I still think it would have a negligible impact so they wount add it, but if they add the condition RNG, and make the gun kits rare, alot of people would stop playing, or move to private password protected servers, and the actual online open community would diminish.

Edited December 6, 2012 by DiazWaffleCrabstro