Incentive to not be a dick

[hoik 415]

A lot of people are posting about ways to incentivise co-op (myself included) when I think what we really want to incentivise is not being a dick.

It might sound like the same thing but its not...

Essentialy what I think we want is a way to give everyone responsibilty for their actions - this way even greifers will contribut to the game in a way that everyone can appreciate even if thats not their intention.

How?

Some sort of global mechanic (think of it as passive - without imediate repercussions) that takes into account PvP actions and ties it to things of value in the game (loot - its the one thing that most greifers care about, aside for the thrill kill itself).

This is an attempt to teach greifers that everyone is a part of the game - soloist, team players, bandits and yes even greifers.

Hopefully this could draw greifers into the game as it gives their play style validity within the world - they might start caring about the world, and by extention the other players.

More than anything this is about using social pressures rather than mechanics to bring a sense of morality to the game. Whether you act moral or immoral is upto you - but you have to care either way.

Being a dick is actually the infant stage of a gamer (thats why I find "time out" suggestions so funny - it is a direct indication of what type of players grief), we need to encourage these people get beyond this and join the community at large, so they can enjoy a more mature appreciation of the many other possibilities this game has to offer aside from murder.

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EDIT: Or...just find a good server :P

[Sabata (DayZ) 1]

A griefer would want this, yep. That gives even more repercussion to their actions. They play their own game, just want fresh tears. Less loot globally or whatever is the global penalty equals to more drama and tears. Perhaps some people may want to organize themselves and stop it, in a huge community like this the effort never will be big enough I think.

Let's say, it's like giving a new direction to a sociological experiment with another similar experiment. Griefers only fear suggestions like mine, or at least that's what I want to think heh.

[Savage_MF 0]

Wait, are you talking about bandits/unfriendly survivors or actual griefers?

People who choose to kill other survivors are part of the game and loot should be random...same chance for everyone.

Griefers....any examples?

[hoik 415]

@ sabat

"A griefer would want this, yep. That gives even more repercussion to their actions."

This is the exact point. Griefers should like this, its a way to make them part of the game, part of its actual context. By making their actions (though of course its not restricted to greivers) have global concequences it will cause a communal reaction - just like all excessive antisocial behaviour.

The thing is we have laws to counter anti social behavior and this game is anti-law - so we need a way to make greifers part of the game whether they like it or not, without laws but with concequences.

greifers arnt interested in story creation, survival or roleplaying - and that is what DayZ fans value. So by making them part of the world contex they can still do what they want (be psychopaths...) while giving themselves value to the rest of the community by beng part of the story - that is, they are the true enemy of humanity.

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So heres a scenario:

A group of players have become aware of the global mechanic (be it loot density or whatever) indicating a large presence of greifing (psychopaths) on the server. Greifing may not be effecting them directly but will make the whole server aware of the problem - they can then choose to try and rally in order to curb this contextual threat to their survival.

@ Sabata

"Perhaps some people may want to organize themselves and stop it, in a huge community like this the effort never will be big enough I think."

The point is not to stop greifing but make it a motivational part of the story.

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Wait' date=' are you talking about bandits/unfriendly survivors or actual griefers?

People who choose to kill other survivors are part of the game and loot should be random...same chance for everyone.

Griefers....any examples?

[/quote']

I dont count Banits and hostile players as greifers - they are interested in things like story and roleplaying etc.

Killing is an essential dynamic of the game and I don't discourage it at all - if the global dynamic did effect loot I'd say it would effect its density and not who gets it.

Greifers are peolpe who derive their enjoyment of the game purely from killing - irragardless of any other possibility. A bandit might want to survive but is imaginitve enough to empathise and come up with inventive ways to get what they want of other people.

[Sabata (DayZ) 1]

So heres a scenario:

A group of players have become aware of the global mechanic (be it loot density or whatever) indicating a large presence of greifing (psychopaths) on the server. Greifing may not be effecting them directly but will make the whole server aware of the problem - they can then choose to try and rally in order to curb this contextual threat to their survival.

@ Sabata

"Perhaps some people may want to organize themselves and stop it, in a huge community like this the effort never will be big enough I think."

The point is not to stop greifing but make it a motivational part of the story.

Yeah, I mean precisely that, just I think such motivation never could counter the negative impact from grief. I like the idea from an experimental point of view.

[hoik 415]

Yeah' date=' I mean precisely that, just I think such motivation never could counter the negative impact from grief. I like the idea from an experimental point of view.

[/quote']

Sorry but I have to dissagree :rolleyes: (its my perogative) Yeah it is excperimental and the outcome is uncertan.

For me making greifing a part of the game will actual nullify what people hate most about it - that these people dont care about others and are only out to kill.

Those greifers in it to piss people off will soon quit because their actions have now become acceptable, those that just love killing will keep doing but fill the role of psychopaths, and those that try to evade detection wil then become bandits.

I concede one mechanic can not do everything. There are a combination of good ideas on the forums right now that could be implemented to achive this.

This should be an end goal!

[Boonshniggle 0]

Ummmm, if you're suggesting that the more griefing that goes on, the less loot there ends up being around the map....I think you're actually making the problem much much much worse.

Griefers are the type of person that, cause it's a game, and not real life...no matter how realistic DayZ tries to be, they just will not care. I don't think anything DayZ related will change this. Maybe some IRL medicine and therapy....maybe...not even that.

This would just mean to them that they can grief EVERYONE in the server easily. Think they care about being stuck with a makarov and just the starting items as long as it means they dicked everyone else in the server to be stuck with the same? I think not, this is like christmas to them, BAD IDEA! -1

[tentacle 0]

I don't really even get what is concretely being suggested here or how it is supposed to address the griefer issue.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

Good luck stopping people being dicks.

[Boonshniggle 0]

Best solution to griefing I would think is find out about a server where you know a server admin will ban someone for doing so, and be active enough to be effective.

[hoik 415]

Ummmm' date=' if you're suggesting that the more griefing that goes on, the less loot there ends up being around the map....I think you're actually making the problem much much much worse.

Griefers are the type of person that, cause it's a game, and not real life...no matter how realistic DayZ tries to be, they just will not care. I don't think anything DayZ related will change this. Maybe some IRL medicine and therapy....maybe...not even that.

This would just mean to them that they can grief EVERYONE in the server easily. Think they care about being stuck with a makarov and just the starting items as long as it means they dicked everyone else in the server to be stuck with the same? I think not, this is like christmas to them, BAD IDEA! -1

[/quote']

Thats correct it is a bad idea, itthat would be a greifers orgasm - I purposly did not define the implementation to float the overall theory.

If you want to see my technical theory go here (http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295) its far from being solid - but you will get my direction.

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I don't really even get what is concretely being suggested here or how it is supposed to address the griefer issue.

Ditto - see here http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295

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Good luck stopping people being dicks.

Umm well im actually trying to encourage them in a way that will make them a valid part of the game :huh:

[dissaifer 3]

I don't see a game mechanic here, just an idea.

This needs to be rephrased as an actual mechanic or it is just a general topic.

[Boonshniggle 0]

Ummmm' date=' if you're suggesting that the more griefing that goes on, the less loot there ends up being around the map....I think you're actually making the problem much much much worse.

Griefers are the type of person that, cause it's a game, and not real life...no matter how realistic DayZ tries to be, they just will not care. I don't think anything DayZ related will change this. Maybe some IRL medicine and therapy....maybe...not even that.

This would just mean to them that they can grief EVERYONE in the server easily. Think they care about being stuck with a makarov and just the starting items as long as it means they dicked everyone else in the server to be stuck with the same? I think not, this is like christmas to them, BAD IDEA! -1

[/quote']

Thats correct it is a bad idea, itthat would be a greifers orgasm - I purposly did not define the implementation to float the overall theory.

If you want to see my technical theory go here (http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295) its far from being solid - but you will get my direction.

---

I don't really even get what is concretely being suggested here or how it is supposed to address the griefer issue.

Ditto - see here http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295

---

Good luck stopping people being dicks.

Umm well im actually trying to encourage them in a way that will make them a valid part of the game :huh:

I read that and I still have the same response. They are still just doing more griefing by keeping players from being able to find some of the most awesome items in the game. A griefers problems likely extend far beyond the game, and nothing, I mean nothing in the game will change them. Why? Because they only care about pissing people off, they don't care and will not care for experiencing the game or enjoying it for what it's meant to be. If anything there only interest is to ruin that for everyone else.

On top of that if a server has no griefers, you're forcing players to kill each other when they don't want to in a lot of cases just to have that sweet spot of percentages you propose.

That's why I think the most effective solution is to play on a server where these people get banned because the server admins are quite active.

[hoik 415]

That's why I think the most effective solution is to play on a server where these people get banned because the server admins are quite active.

Yeah...I know...

From here I think we could go round and round on this subject and not agree - after all the idea has a bit of a hippy flavour, but I guess you have to be a hippy to really try for a sytem that will encompass everyone no matter their choices - please if you (the readers) want genuine freedom do NOT bang on about the "problem" of greifers.

[suiside 20]

maybe there should be a player option that allows non murderers to have an armband or something simple like that (people have it as an option) and when you have a murder you lost that option ?

when you kill some one and you did have that armband you loose it, regardless of self defense, most of the time you can hit some one and not kill them ...

you shot a human/survivor. this would still not be a problem as to the option of the armband (example) because not everyone will chose it because of the noob factor or carebear factor.

this would allow people to "band" together more easy and see from a distance what the person might be like, sure there will be "tricksters" but that is a one time only deal

might be the duct tape we need :D

[hoik 415]

I love the simplicity, so let me paraphrase so you can see if I've read this right.

The armband is optional on spawn as a "white flag" to let others know that upto that point you havn't killed anyone - and because its optional, even if you kill someone and lose the band it wont flag you as a murderer - but as someone who should be aproached cautiously as you have opted out - genious!

The thing is this could be so EASILY implemented for a trial run - just have an equipable item that CAN be dropped but NOT picked up (this is how you opt out) and is destroyed when you comit a murder - it could even be a white flag (Or a sock, or a onesy :) ) When you come across a player just demand to see their white flag to gauge the level of trust you can put in them.

You should definatly make a thread on this subject Sui.

Please have a look at my thread here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12656

I've tried to use the same simple logical resoning to create trust within a group and ways to test newcomers loyaly.

[suiside 20]

i also posted this in an other thread about coop and how to improve it

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10885&pid=118047#pid118047