Lets not make bandits worse, lets make heroes better.

[Agiantstick 15]

again you are seeking to bestow some advantage on a particular style of play (undoubtedly your own). Having humanity doesn't suddenly make you a medical genius. Being without morals doesn't make you suddenly incapable of learning new skills.

http://www.sott.net/...orporate-ladder

http://www.smithsoni...-176019901.html

As these and other studies show psychopaths excel at many things, in fact they dominate the top tier of business, government and criminal gangs.

If anything being 'good' should be handicapped.

Actually, I've only been a hero once during DayZ. The bandit route Is just a better playstyle at the moment.

Well if anything, heroes would be more willing to give medical to random people, rather than the bandit that might heal only his teamates, the hero would see a much wider range of medical problems.

As for pyschopaths excelling in things, they do that because they are amoral and have no reason to be hindered, so yeah. bandits can have a skill like that. I'm not against giving the bandit skills.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Agiantstick

[Rastamaus 323]

Yeah, all of that is true. But people are just more prone to pick the bandit "shoot on sight" playstyle and the game becomes a deathmatch, why not make the hero playstyle viable choice as well?

And I'm not asking for people to be rewarded for making stupid mistakes, helping people is a risk in itself, honestly. I'm asking for people to be rewarded for surviving long and doing good. If you die, you lose all the things you've learned surviving and start new.

Don't you think it'll make for even better moments if there were more people apt to play heroes?

Say there are unarmed people trapped in the Elecktro firestation by a bandit sniper. But luckily there's a hero patrolling the town and hears the shots. He investigates the hill and finds the bandit. They engage and the bandit dies. The hero rushes into the firestation and yells friendly at the unarmed. He helps them find weapons and food, then sends them off on their way.

Or even better. After risking his life to save these survivors, the survivors were up and coming bandits and shoot him in the back while he's helping them gear.

I just think if there were more playstyle benefits, rather than all the pros on the bandit playstyle and all the cons on the hero playstyle, we'd see more interesting things.

As long as any rewards/benefits for surviving are given to all players regardless of their in-game actions then we agree.

Unfortunately, if something like a dayz scenario occured it is fair to say that natural selection would favour those who shoot first and ask later. The environment would be unfavourable to the over trusting, gentle souls and they would suffer unless they got smart and just stayed away from populated areas and avoid exposing themselves to uneccesary danger. Which is a strategy many dayz players employ to great effect.

[Agiantstick 15]

As long as any rewards/benefits for surviving are given to all players regardless of their in-game actions then we agree.

Unfortunately, if something like a dayz scenario occured it is fair to say that natural selection would favour those who shoot first and ask later. The environment would be unfavourable to the over trusting, gentle souls and they would suffer unless they got smart and just stayed away from populated areas and avoid exposing themselves to uneccesary danger. Which is a strategy many dayz players employ to great effect.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Which is what the survivor score/path is. Everyone gets one regardless of humanity and it can be bettered by doing what everyone does in this game, surviving. And if you die, you lose all that. But if your humanity is low enough or high enough, you keep a benefit

Yeah, and there would always be a bandit v bandit, never a hero v hero. I think there should be less heroes than bandits. As a bandit group will probably kill the other bandit group going for their loot. Heroes would probably always band together even if they don't know each other.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Agiantstick

[Rastamaus 323]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Which is what the survivor score/path is. Everyone gets one regardless of humanity and it can be bettered by doing what everyone does in this game, surviving. And if you die, you lose all that. But if your humanity is low enough or high enough, you keep a benefit

Agreed. Except the part about your humanity level enabling you to keep hold of benefits. Again you want to reward a particular style of play.

The game already has a punishment system in place, it is called dying, if you are a skilled player you die less, if you are a careful player you will die less, if you have lots of freinds on the server because you healed them all you will die less, if you are a bad ass pvp specialist you will die less etc etc etc.

[Agiantstick 15]

Agreed. Except the part about your humanity level enabling you to keep hold of benefits. Again you want to reward a particular style of play.

The game already has a punishment system in place, it is called dying, if you are a skilled player you die less, if you are a careful player you will die less, if you have lots of freinds on the server because you healed them all you will die less, if you are a bad ass pvp specialist you will die less etc etc etc.

I want to reward all styles of play, but there's nothing to give bandits that they already can take by force or learn in the survivor path. (Maybe bandit traps?)

Yes dying is a huge punishment, as losing all your survivor score/skills is steep already. But you can always run back to your corpse and take whatever. That is if the bandits didn't already take it.

[Rastamaus 323]

I want to reward all styles of play, but there's nothing to give bandits that they already can take by force or learn in the survivor path. (Maybe bandit traps?)

Yes dying is a huge punishment, as losing all your survivor score/skills is steep already. But you can always run back to your corpse and take whatever. That is if the bandits didn't already take it.

Or the hero, lets not pretend that bandits are the only ones who win the battles. As for rewarding play then personally my reward comes from just survivng a play session, as the hours clock up, the kills, the headshots etc that is my reward and death punishes me for making a mistake. No other system is required.

[brightlitefilms 37]

I like the idea, but I believe that it would be better off just by making it so that you'd most likely rather waste your ammo on zombies than people, as people most likely would take more bullets and are slightly easier to avoid, whilst zombies in their current state could be deemed "Mike Tyson" with their epic headbutts of death.

Possibly making it so that heros (since there's a humanity system) have better loot chances, maybe, each piece of military and car part loot has a one percent more chance of spawning? I don't think that perks would do much, as it would be too overwhelming and OP to be a hero, and someone could just get hero status and then kill everyone they see with the new perks.

[Rastamaus 323]

I like the idea, but I believe that it would be better off just by making it so that you'd most likely rather waste your ammo on zombies than people, as people most likely would take more bullets and are slightly easier to avoid, whilst zombies in their current state could be deemed "Mike Tyson" with their epic headbutts of death.

Possibly making it so that heros (since there's a humanity system) have better loot chances, maybe, each piece of military and car part loot has a one percent more chance of spawning? I don't think that perks would do much, as it would be too overwhelming and OP to be a hero, and someone could just get hero status and then kill everyone they see with the new perks.

Having humanity affect things like spawning is a bad idea, the only thing that should be rewarded is skillful play and that is already rewarded by the fact that skillful players last longer and therefore get more chance to loot and gather quality gear before they die. This whole good v evil hero v bandit thing is daft and should be buried. There is no clearcut difference between them anyway, too much grey area.

in fact banish skins as well while we're at it, as has been said before why would the way you decide to go about surviving an apocalypse dictate whether or not you'll be wearing an arabic headscarf or a lumberjack shirt. You can't tell what kind of person a player is by looking at his skin, it's silly.

[Agiantstick 15]

Or the hero, lets not pretend that bandits are the only ones who win the battles. As for rewarding play then personally my reward comes from just survivng a play session, as the hours clock up, the kills, the headshots etc that is my reward and death punishes me for making a mistake. No other system is required.

I like the idea, but I believe that it would be better off just by making it so that you'd most likely rather waste your ammo on zombies than people, as people most likely would take more bullets and are slightly easier to avoid, whilst zombies in their current state could be deemed "Mike Tyson" with their epic headbutts of death.

Possibly making it so that heros (since there's a humanity system) have better loot chances, maybe, each piece of military and car part loot has a one percent more chance of spawning? I don't think that perks would do much, as it would be too overwhelming and OP to be a hero, and someone could just get hero status and then kill everyone they see with the new perks.

Well every non bandit you shoot is losing humanity and every non bandit you kill is losing even more humanity, The benefits only work if you're above the threshold. As soon as you leave it, you lose your benefits.

[Agiantstick 15]

Or the hero, lets not pretend that bandits are the only ones who win the battles. As for rewarding play then personally my reward comes from just survivng a play session, as the hours clock up, the kills, the headshots etc that is my reward and death punishes me for making a mistake. No other system is required.

Yeah, I just see bandits as more of the person that kills and steals, heroes can only loot bandit corpses without losing humanity.

And as for stat tracking, I never have debug on, so I don't care. I find reward in the rare items I find and the vehicles I have (Call me materialistic) having a "tangible" useful reward suits my tastes better. A global leaderboard would give people like me more of a reason to stat tracking.

[Rastamaus 323]

Well every non bandit you shoot is losing humanity and every non bandit you kill is losing even more humanity, The benefits only work if you're above the threshold. As soon as you leave it, you lose your benefits.

I understand that bullets make you bleed and bandages stop bleeding, eating keeps hunger at bay and not eating will kill you and the same for other features in dayz, I understand them because they are ideas borrowed from reality.

someone please tell me what my real life humanity meter is and where i may find it? so i can have a better real life with nicer cars and be able to run faster etc. It is a bad idea because it has no basis in reality and therefore does not belong in a game that calls itself a simulator.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Rastamaus

[Agiantstick 15]

Having humanity affect things like spawning is a bad idea, the only thing that should be rewarded is skillful play and that is already rewarded by the fact that skillful players last longer and therefore get more chance to loot and gather quality gear before they die. This whole good v evil hero v bandit thing is daft and should be buried. There is no clearcut difference between them anyway, too much grey area.

in fact banish skins as well while we're at it, as has been said before why would the way you decide to go about surviving an apocalypse dictate whether or not you'll be wearing an arabic headscarf or a lumberjack shirt. You can't tell what kind of person a player is by looking at his skin, it's silly.

If people are up for audio cues than visual. You would hear someone scream "Friendly" then hear the crackle of a gunshot followed by the sound of a bullet hitting the ground.

I think skins need to stay if humanity stays, or it would turn into someone hearing friendly then looking around to find who said that then shoot him. Or there could be a recognition system where you hear someone scream friendly, you do not respond. After a certain amount of times not responding, you will be designated as a foe.

[Agiantstick 15]

I understand that bullets make you bleed, bandages stop bleeding, eating keeps hunger at bay, not eating will kill you and the same for the other features in dayz, I understand them because they are ideas borrowed from reality, please tell me what my real life humanity meter is please, and where i may find it? so i can have a better real life with nicer cars and be able to run faster etc. It is a bad idea because it has no basis in reality and therefore does not belong in a game that calls itself a simulator.

Well that's where Rocket decides if he's going to make this as realistic as possible or make this game slightly unrealistic, which is odd because there's no reason for adding a humanity meter in the first place if this is a simulator.

I'm just thinking a hardcore experience where consequences are dire and choices matter, as there are no real set morals in an apocalypse, consequences are based only on people or zombies around you, there are no skins to show if you're a good or bad person, and the only way another person will know you're a bandit is if you shoot first.

Which would be an interesting experiment if he got rid of all visual cues.

[Rastamaus 323]

Well that's where Rocket decides if he's going to make this as realistic as possible or make this game slightly unrealistic, which is odd because there's no reason for adding a humanity meter in the first place if this is a simulator.

I'm just thinking a hardcore experience where consequences are dire and choices matter, as there are no real set morals in an apocalypse, consequences are based only on people or zombies around you, there are no skins to show if you're a good or bad person, and the only way another person will know you're a bandit is if you shoot first.

Which would be an interesting experiment if he got rid of all visual cues.

time will tell buddy =)

[Shadow Man 142]

I think you need to be extremely careful when thinking of giving perks to high humanity. Even plain stats will easily steer some players into a playing style where they try to maximize a certain stat, be it murders or humanity. Sandbox goes out the window. That's a lot of sand.

Never a truer word spoken. Even having skins for hero/bandit makes people play in a different way. If its possible to have X amount of anything, players will effectively stop playing to try and achieve a number. Whether its kills, humanity or whatever.

DayZ needs to remain as close to reality as is possible in a game.

[Philip Omnis 2]

The overall tone of this thread is pretty much that the OP wants to have more perks for the 'hero' and honestly, I both agree and disagree. Firstly, he's approaching the majority of you guys in here that think it is an outrageous idea and for two reasons: One: because it will most likely punish you in some way, two: because it does not fit with the general theme of DayZ, that of a realistic zombie survival simulator.

The real merit that has come from both arguments here lies in the fact that there are no guaranteed real benefits to being a good person, either in real-life or in-game, which comes to my point, what do you guys want DayZ to be? A successful game that caters to the masses, or a game that just -you- and people of your 'ilk' can play. I don't mean this offensively. What I mean is that in reality, videogames are not based on reality. In CoD, how many of the perks are designed with game-play, balance, rewards and continuation of fanbase in mind, as opposed to realism?

If you guys want DayZ to be successful, it has to broaden its player-base past the die-hard users, but I honestly don't want to see it either. I myself get no fun out of PVP and have not yet once killed another player because if they're going to be a confrontation, I pre-empt them. And if I don't do that, it's already too late, in which case I'd sooner swallow my own vomit than comply with the likes of any bandit-folk =]

So here is my only suggestion that adds any real benefit to a hero without causing a particular unbalancing issue. Heroes' bodies cannot be buried. What does that do? Very little, it gives a hero the added chance of regaining some of their resources, and also gives them some degree of protection from trolls that like to bury bodies purely to antagonise players (which is antonymous of a hero's agenda.) Bandits and players are still free to loot said body, making it barely a benefit, but it also encourages players to be careful who they're killing, perhaps making them more likely to stalk a hero to somewhere discreet before killing him.

To the OP, you're going to meet a lot of resistance in any game of this genre for wanting to pat the head of the 'good guy'. I don't know why, but people just don't like it. To those opposed, I fully support your ideas and take your side on the argument, however I beg of you to try and figure out where you want your beloved game to go. It can't be successful and catered to you alone.

Thanks for your time in reading, I hope I've added something of value to this discussion. =]

Edited October 31, 2012 by Philip Omnis

[Solitude 42]

Just saying heroes already have a small run speed increase.

[Agiantstick 15]

Never a truer word spoken. Even having skins for hero/bandit makes people play in a different way. If its possible to have X amount of anything, players will effectively stop playing to try and achieve a number. Whether its kills, humanity or whatever.

DayZ needs to remain as close to reality as is possible in a game.

Well the thing is grinding for survival score/humanity can be done. But it requires alot of work and resources. Also, grinding would lead to sitting in towns, which would lead to player encounters both friendly and non friendly, which leads to you possibly losing you life, losing all your survivor progress and some of your humanity (all of it if you're below the threshold).

[Agiantstick 15]

The overall tone of this thread is pretty much that the OP wants to have more perks for the 'hero' and honestly, I both agree and disagree. Firstly, he's approaching the majority of you guys in here that think it is an outrageous idea and for two reasons: One: because it will most likely punish you in some way, two: because it does not fit with the general theme of DayZ, that of a realistic zombie survival simulator.

The real merit that has come from both arguments here lies in the fact that there are no guaranteed real benefits to being a good person, either in real-life or in-game, which comes to my point, what do you guys want DayZ to be? A successful game that caters to the masses, or a game that just -you- and people of your 'ilk' can play. I don't mean this offensively. What I mean is that in reality, videogames are not based on reality. In CoD, how many of the perks are designed with game-play, balance, rewards and continuation of fanbase in mind, as opposed to realism?

If you guys want DayZ to be successful, it has to broaden its player-base past the die-hard users, but I honestly don't want to see it either. I myself get no fun out of PVP and have not yet once killed another player because if they're going to be a confrontation, I pre-empt them. And if I don't do that, it's already too late, in which case I'd sooner swallow my own vomit than comply with the likes of any bandit-folk =]

So here is my only suggestion that adds any real benefit to a hero without causing a particular unbalancing issue. Heroes' bodies cannot be buried. What does that do? Very little, it gives a hero the added chance of regaining some of their resources, and also gives them some degree of protection from trolls that like to bury bodies purely to antagonise players (which is antonymous of a hero's agenda.) Bandits and players are still free to loot said body, making it barely a benefit, but it also encourages players to be careful who they're killing, perhaps making them more likely to stalk a hero to somewhere discreet before killing him.

To the OP, you're going to meet a lot of resistance in any game of this genre for wanting to pat the head of the 'good guy'. I don't know why, but people just don't like it. To those opposed, I fully support your ideas and take your side on the argument, however I beg of you to try and figure out where you want your beloved game to go. It can't be successful and catered to you alone.

Thanks for your time in reading, I hope I've added something of value to this discussion. =]

I just want to have a playstyle encouraged that might lead to a more complex experience rather than "everyone shoot on sight" realism of the apocalypse. The heroes are few and far in between because of their rules of engagement that usually lead them to being shot first.

I understand that realism doesn't necessarily reward people for being good, and that's perfectly logical. There are no guaranteed rewards in real life just because you're a nice guy. But could there be another layer of depth behind this? People shooting each other is fun, but why not have someone that is willing to help others in need. A very brief moment from all the paranoia, firefights, and alt-looking where you're with a stranger and you don't feel on edge, but relaxed?

I'm not saying this is imperative for DayZ, I'm just saying that this might add some more character to the game.

Oh, and for the hero not being able to be buried would still leave to maybe the killer taking all the stuff off the body and dumping it in the middle of the forest.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Agiantstick

[Agiantstick 15]

Just saying heroes already have a small run speed increase.

Another guy told me already.

[Agiantstick 15]

I'd also like to make myself clear.

I want all benefits to be able to be lost humanity and survivor skills.

I'm not asking for permanent benefits from styles of play.

[Riem 164]

I say we let Rocket get the standalone out and running, get the first round of bug fixes and exploits tightened up, then take a look at how the game plays, and make adjustments to the humanity system, and what small benefits each playstyle can net you.

OP's suggestion isn't wholly bad, though I am against any player, no matter how much of a bandit or hero they are, having really any kind of detriment or benefit over anyone else.

The zeds are going to be harder and it's going to be harder to survive, with the changes I'm seeing the standalone confirmed to have. So people running around with a bandit skin on, as that in my opinion should be the only difference, are putting on a bigger "I'll kill you if you don't shoot me first" sign, than ever before.

[Trizzo 632]

I like don't perks. I like DayZ because it is one of few games that is crafted and built upon spontaneous player interaction. Especially in the TPS/FPS shooter genre.

Sure lets add skins/custom clothing that people can loot so they can put on and off as they please... so bandits can dress as heros and well intended people and vice versa. Clothing and the dispoisition that it implies should not be dictated by the omnipresent god of RPG stats.

Let players loot medic zombie clothes, become the wasteland medic or the troll you want to be. Let a clan kill zombie police so on that hive they are know on sight as the police in that area, let players loot surgeon zombies to be highly visible therefore obviously well intended peopel (or are they), personally i want to loot a hunter zombie's skin if only for the fur hat.

THIS is how you make 'skins' and role playing realistic, dyanamic and fit the dayz canon. Perks/stats/skill trees? DayZ is over.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Trizzo

[Rastamaus 323]

No character classes, no behavioural based skins, no humanity meter, no skills (except playing skill), no advantages/penalties, just a level playing field where the game is about survival and it is as equally difficult for everyone regardless of their approach.

Co-operation already has it's benefits, anyone seen a lone wolf finding, repairing and keeping a chopper running for long? it's rare. Teamwork brings friends to guard your body so retrieval of gear is no issue, superior firepower to win engagements, eyes to watch all sectors when moving across the map etc etc.....

The game should be kept simple and fair and the only advantages should come to those who play the game with great skill and those who use teamwork.

That's it.

[Trizzo 632]

No character classes, no behavioural based skins, no humanity meter, no skills (except playing skill), no advantages/penalties, just a level playing field where the game is about survival and it is as equally difficult for everyone regardless of their approach.

Co-operation already has it's benefits, anyone seen a lone wolf finding, repairing and keeping a chopper running for long? it's rare. Teamwork brings friends to guard your body so retrieval of gear is no issue, superior firepower to win engagements, eyes to watch all sectors when moving across the map etc etc.....

The game should be kept simple and fair and the only advantages should come to those who play the game with great skill and those who use teamwork.

That's it.

This person gets it, as well as my beans. Now the mutal jerking is complete i'm feeling rather...*snores*