callahan9119

It isn't arbitrary, or it shouldn't be if properly implemented. That's the thing. You should be represented as what you are and how you behave, it is a game and that is functionally important, so gameplay mechanics such as that should be implemented. I have no problem with me "looking" like a "good guy" because that's how I am, how I behave. And I'll leave it up to the other survivors to judge me and react accordingly to that. That's the thing in a nutshell. I don't mind that I'm a helpful or benevolent or kind being represented by my skin, because I go to the trouble to be altruistic, or in the worst case benevolently neutral. No problem, skin me as that. If you are evil, a criminal or just a psychopath, you should be represented as such. Things must be conveyed within the limitations of gameplay that we would decide through real human interaction. Those real thins cannot be represented realistically or functionally, so you need a gameplay mechanic to facilitate that. You have to consider gameplay, and not tenuous arguments about "realism", which are baseless in my opinion, given the limitations of the mod and it's foundation engine.

Removing the skins makes it "easier" for the asshats or professional psychopaths. There is not enough communication capabilities to properly replicate human interaction. Bandits were a gameplay element that enabled us to recognize someone as dangerous, not a frozen face that looks exactly like me who can stand there mute while you ask them "friendly?"

What a load of nonsense. Nobody is saying you shouldn't be able to kill people, straw man arguments abound. It's not a "self imposed moral rule", it's part of our evolution. The only people who punish you are the other survivors. You want to be able to be a psychopath? That's fine, be a psychopath, but you should expect consequences. You want to shoot a guy over the excuse of beans because you're to lazy to go a couple minutes over there to get some, that's your choice. You want to be a total douchebag? Wear the douchebag colors then. Why do people kill bandits? Because they are dangerous people and the community rightly judges them to be apart from them. You want to behave in a way that alienates you and makes you an outcast, but you don't want to have to deal with the survivors judgments about your behavior. Nobody is saying you shouldn't be able to do those things, but you should not be immune to any consequences....which you are when the bandit skin is gone. When you say "we" you mean you, you don't speak for me. People want to act like assholes and not have to worry about dealing with the consequences. The bandit mechanic should have been improved, not removed.

It was the only thing that controlled psychopathic behavior. Just because it's a nightmare scenario, doesn't mean there wouldn't be repercussions and consequences. "Realism" to many of these people is a deathmatch with zombies adorning the landscape. You're not killing people over beans, you're killing them because you're too fucking lazy to walk two minutes away and grab some out of a barn. People kill in this game mostly just because they can, without any of the real emotional toll and societal consequences that would normally occur. You're acting like a murdering psychopath because you know it's a game. Arguments about realism when not balanced by gameplay considerations are stupid. This isn't real life, it is a game, a game which is incapable of properly replicating real human interactions. The bandit mechanic should have been improved, not removed. The threshold should have been higher to become one and the value that controls it should gradually diminish over time. It let the players decide what to do about a person. It let the community police itself. You want to be an outcast and pariah but you don't want to deal with the consequences.

I really wish the removal of bandit skin thing is rethought, Rocket. Make the threshold higher and have whatever value that it uses naturally diminish over time. It is the only thing currently which can help regulate psychopathic behavior. It allows the players to judge them based on their actions. You are taking away the ability for us to self regulate by removing this. Remove it when we have better communication options or other ways of interacting...and for now raise the threshold so killing a few people doesn't make you one....only clearly psychopathic behavior and serial douchebaggery should cause the skin switch.

Exactly.

Ummm no. And you ignored my whole argument and focused on one sentence. You guys want to kill with impunity. You want no consequences for any of your actions. You know it's a game when you're playing and you will kill someone over the excuse of beans, when you know that shit is all over the place and there is no trouble finding food, unlike a real apocalypse. you will kill someone because you're lazy, or just because you felt like it. That's not real life. You are arguing extremes, as if everybody turns into a murdering psycho because this happened. I say that is not the case. Some will, most won't.This game now benefits assholes and psychopaths and punishes altruism and even benevolent non-interference. Bandit skins, while imperfect, were necessary for gameplay purposes. Yes the threshold should be higher and your counter should diminish over time. But they at least allowed PLAYERS to decide what to do with you. It let the community judge them...and most killed you guys because you're fucking assholes.

i think people trying to come up with solutions for bandits need to keep this in mind bandit skin was good in a way since players made it a consequence (by shooting them on sight)' date=' whereas most other suggestions just directly punish the bandit [/quote'] This.

I just find most of the arguments in favor of being able to act like a psychopath (and that's what it is) are basing their argument on "that's how it would be in real life", when I think that is completely untrue. How it is now is what happens when you let the average player do whatever he wants in a game with no consequences. People don't turn into murdering psychopaths just because they don't have beans and don't want to go look in a barn 2 minutes away. You know that food and stuff is all over the place, you're killing people because you are fucking lazy or just because you can and you know he is just going to respawn. Not because it's the end of the world. Stop using the reality argument, because it doesn't apply, you're behavior in this game is based on you knowing it's a game.

I don't mind you sniping me in theory, but I want you to be known as a dangerous guy on appearance for gameplay purposes. You need some kind of mechanic to replicate human intuition of knowing a guy is a horrible bastard.

Yes, but it's impossible to do that unless you have people you know outside the game to do this with. It is almost impossible to do that just within the game, and that is almost required to deal with the benefits that "bandits" get by virtue of their faceless persona and the lack of any consequence for their actions. Most games deal with with this by trying to make it balanced. Gameplay requires balance. You can't allow people to act like psychopaths and have no consequences, I'm not talking about penalties, but you should be represented as what you are. I'm not saying if you kill a couple dudes you should be reskinned, but if you clearly are a crazy person you should look like it, most of us would be able to tell who is a batshit crazy motherfucker in real life and avoid them.

I think the problem is that altruism is not rewarded and banditry...or being a fucking psychopath is rewarded based on your faceless anonymity and the complete lack of consequences for your actions. I thought the bandit skins were a good half step towards solving this, although poorly implemented. The biggest problem is the difficulty in communicating, so an unnecessary and unrealistic muted fear pervades every human interaction. You cannot communicate realistically, and the game's design punishes you for that. You can't tell the cut of a man's jib in this or at least have a guess, like you would in real life. Yes it is a "zombie apocalypse", but the limitations currently eliminate the humanness of the interaction between players who are not connected via an independent voip, wo you already know are friendly. I think the current system or "vision" is fine, but not with the limited ability to communicate with other players. I would think in a real situation, people would be meeting up forming groups or "clans" to use videogame speak and working together...but the limitations are not conducive to having this type of mechanic as they require you to form them outside the game, and clans bring their own inherent set of problems. It's a hard problem, thank god it's alpha. And analogies about Skyrim or other single player games don't really mean much.

When you log off your status should be exactly what it is when you log back in. It is a flawed concept in it's current state. He has said so too. I'm all for it being difficult, but you have to work around the parameters of it still being a game. He appears to have other reasons behind it's removal, the unequal quality of this penalty over the lack of another, but I feel that should be the reason. People need to stop with the literal interpretations of his comment about an experiment as well. It's alpha, not perfection. Flawed mechanics, decisions, features and implementation need to be removed or improved. I don't like that bandit skins are gone, but I understand the rationale behind it (while not agreeing with it). This is another thing all together.

They won't even read it is being removed, they will just blindly defend anything in the mod, even if it is shit and argue with anybody who doesn't like a game mechanic. It is hilarious all the morons that were in here acting like they were defending Rocket's vision, and he comes in and says it's shite but he hasn't had time to remove it yet.

He said it was a legacy problem and it is being removed. No, I'm talking about the retards who howl about anybody saying something is broken or is poorly designed. Like the retards in here saying we are acting entitled. They don't even understand what that means. Most of you weren't even defending the mechanic, you just explained how to deal with it, or blindly cupped Rocket's balls and defended everything in the game. It's like the idiots who parrot his experiment comment, taking it completely literally like a bunch of dummies.

WTF are you talking about dummy. You guys are a huge problem, you yell and scream that everything is perfect without paying attention to what the fuck is being discussed. He said he is going to remove it, it is a legacy problem. And it was a stupid design decision. There are a lot of stupid design decisions in this mod. You howling retards who try to shout down people who make valid complaints aren't good for anything. Most of you just want to run around like retards with your starting weapon and shoot anybody you see and call yourself hardcore. And it's Alpha for a goddamn reason, it is supposed to be tested, feedback is supposed to be given and changes are made. If you are just playing and not giving real feedback you're useless. Go back to whining about carebears and other stupid shit.

Who the hell said anything about entitlement, we are pointing out a ridiculous aspect of this game. It IS a game, calling an orange an apple, doesn't make it an apple. And yes, you are an ass kisser.

A lot of the stuff in this is stupid. I don't give a shit about vision, or lame arguments like "it's not a game, it's an experiment." It IS a fucking game. Take into account some of us have lives, jobs, kids and those things called women. Be as cruel and as harsh as you want while we are in the game, Give douchebag psychopaths faceless anonymity and a free ride and all the other stupid design decisions...but leave us the fuck alone when we are not playing the thing. It's stupid.