Jamz

I had a good run on Namalsk. I had an alice pack, steaks, a can of mountain dew, pdw with lot of ammo and an M16 a couple of hours after spawning - my second ever spawn on this map and I didn't know the map at all. I stumbled across a compound, which I later found out was Object All, and explored eventually working my way onto the bunker... it was intense and nerve wracking for the first time and I didn't expect to make it back out alive. When I got to the lowest level I found an M4A3 CCO and then a skin... I was just about to pick it up and then the Admin kicked me! My ping was low and I'd been on the server for some time so I was raging like a boss, but I thought I'd log back onto a different server to get my guy out of the bunker... It was night on this server which bizarrely made the bunker pitch black inside too so I had to use the torch on the M4 to navigate. The server I had joined had no other players on, I just wanted to get out of the bunker. Next thing I know, I've been shot in the back of the head... I checked and in the two minutes since spawning three other players had joined, one of which must also have been in the bunker! I should never have drank that can of mountain dew...

Theoretically it should be the best weapon vs zombies, but I have problems with the range of it. I normally get hit before I make a kill, I guess its just my timing. I think the fact that if you want to use a hatchet as a weapon you have to sacrifice a primary spot is unrealistic though and should be changed,

Exactly right, because people who decide to kill other people in an event like that have chosen to fight a war on two fronts instead of one. They put themselves at a big disadvantage and have very little chance of survival. This thread has gone off topic. Nobody is arguing about the historically well documented propensity for the human race to fight and kill one another, thats inherant in all of us. But killing one another when its detrimental to our own survival? That makes no sense. Bandit skins help people avoid that situation sometimes, but in relation to freedom in the game it has little effect on those who want to kill. This is my opinion and also I think the humanity system should be changed and an alternative system, maybe something a bit lower key, should be brought in.

Thats part of the fun, you don't know anything about the person you see. But you might find out...

True, no one knows what it would really be like, not even you. In that context this, and every other related thread, is moot. :) Dayz is not a mirror of real life, or anything else.

True, its not really an accurate cross section of society who play this mod, rather people who want to have fun with no real risk and have chosen to participate ie. 'Players'.

In a zombie apocalypse? So the first thing people would do under the threat of extermination from flesh eating zombies would be to try and kill each other off? I don't think so. In truth you would have an equal mixture of every type of behavoir that scared humans exhibit.

The skins don't stop people from shooting one another, or I'd imagine have an effect on the majority of players. Like you say, most often the decision has been made already so it doesn't matter. However in some cases they might stop accidental or unnecessary killings, maybe even leading to those stories which make Dayz stand out amongst multiplayer experiences. In the end, everyone wants a version of Dayz which suits them most and few get that. I certainly won't stop playing if they remove the skins and I don't think there will be a big influx of players if they replace the present system with a better way. Its just a detail and one obviously not eveyone will see eye to eye over. I'm looking forward to whatever the SA brings.

Exactly right. Its not a perfect system by a long shot and I'd like to see it changed, but something which gives people in game consequences and makes them think before pulling the trigger is what is needed. Without consequences, the easiest way to play the game is to kill every other player you encounter, why not? You can eliminate a possible threat and help yourself to their stuff by clicking a button but This is not the way normal humans would behave in real life. Because it isn't real.

Thats what I thought, I like the resource gathering to keep the structures in good repair. Maybe the SA will feature a similar thing to keep people scaveging around the map, theres lots of places in Chernarus which there is presently no reason to visit.

I liked the ideas of this mod and always thought that would suit the mood of Dayz more than underground bases: http://www.mmogames....andbox-preview/ But having said that, I'm sure I read that there would be multiple room construction, underground firefights would be good as long as the rooms were not too small... I found investigating the bunker (object all?) in Namalsk to be very tense but its mainly corridors so not much scope for finding cover.

Good idea, we should have had a poll on that 'other' thread :)

This is the point, and the idea of the skin. But I can see the problem is that its too easy to obtain a bandit skin at the moment, I'm starting to thing that it should be a lot more difficult. As someone said earlier, maybe setting the triggers for bandits and hero's at +/-10000 humanity... I think the skins should make it easier for those who want to just pvp also as its a sign to other bandits that you want to fight rather than survive ie. less likely to run. I also think there should maybe be a bigger selection of skins to find to help differentiate between players on a given server (even if its slight colour changes between uniforms or skins).

I'd even be happy if the bandit skin became more and more camo (ie adding headgear, scarf, webbing) the deeper into the bandit spectrum you got and the same with the hero skin. More camo would help bandits with pvp which is their main focus, likewise a less and less pvp image perhaps for heros - like a punk/rock style or something.

I was going to leave this thread alone as its spiralled out of control, but I'd like to say that this really isn't the point. The bandit skin is to make player contact less of a minefield so that its easier for random players to meet - be it to trade or group or for whatever reason, its not there to 'stop' KOS. Its a PvP game and everyone who plays it, and posts on this forum, has accepted that. We all know the risks in the game but the bandit skin helps friendly players determine the risk associated with making contact with an unknown player. If he has a bandit skin then there is a high chance of hostilities, if not then there is possibility of making contact safely, but only a possibility still. I know you're trying to make out that anyone in favour of the bandit skin is scared of players who kill for fun, but this makes you look either ill informed or ignorant, I'm sure you are not.

I must admit I for one am more survivor orientated, but I'm in no way anti PvP, it is neccesary and the mod would fail without it. Its not really a question of punishing PvP, but more finding a way to artificially simulate conscience which is played down due to the whole situation not being real. In many ways I agree with the OP, and I'm enjoying this thread, but its the fundamental issue of humanity we disagree on.

Then ultimately its your choice. Truth is though that situations like this are relatively rare and if you got a bandit skin from killing one non bandit survivor then you probably killed others before. Also as I've said its not permenant so as long as you don't go on a killing spree, you'll lose it anyway. That means that if you had to kill an innocent you're not marked for the rest of your life so it allows for bad judgement calls or unavoidable kills.

Oh I understand everything you have said. If he replies 'not for you' it just suggests hes wary of you and why should he trust you? You want his food, its up to you to prove to him you deserve it. You're not a criminal in RL are you?

You didn't know he even had beans. The morality system would encourage you not to just shoot him, but rather try and trade, or convince him to share any food.

The end game for Dayz doesn't and shouldn't exist. There is no goal to it, just like in a 'real zombie apocalypse' there is only survival as an end game. The point I'm making here is that this 'zombie simulation' cannot accurately simulate something which has never happened and isn't actually happening. If you want the immersion then you need artificial guidance occasionally. Otherwise you end up with PvP deathmatch #476, a failed attempt at making something different. Bandit hats it has to be, but you can avoid them by not being too quick to shoot random people.

Maybe, I hear the stand alone will make you have to go to the toilet, I don't know what will happen if you don't maybe you just die? I'm not a fan of the bandit skin myself anyway, I think it looks stupid, but I think there needs to be something to highlight peoples possible intentions within the game or there will be no random encounters other than KOS. Its unfortunate that the only things we can tell about the player we are looking at is from what they look like but its just a game so there is really no other way.

Well in that case you're agknowledging the fact that it is just a game and you can play it how you want to. But as everyones sprite looks the same, moves the same, its impossible to read someones intentions. If I tracked you for 10 minutes to try and work out if you were hostile, I'd probably just see you crouch running and scavenging like everyone does. In real life there would be things that gave you away behaviorally as a hostile or not but as its not real life something artificial must be added. If its just the headwrap you don't like well thats fair enough, what would you suggest to replace it? Don't forget that it will go over time if you don't shoot any more non bandits and you can also disguise it with a skin so its not permanent.

I see a lot of people claiming things about a 'real life zombie apocalypse' and how Dayz doesn't exactly simulate it and that is a key point. Dayz can't simulate the stress and conditions that would drive someone to murder in real life, let alone canibalism, any more than it can simulate the depression and despair of being potentially one of the last people left alive in the world. This has the effect of 'cheapening' lives in game as there is no emotionally driven behavior. If you thought you were alone in a world of zombies, no family/friends, would you really be so quick to kill the first other human you saw? Or any other human? The game can't simulate these conditions because its not a real situation so it has to add some things to artificially encourage/discourage certain behaviors. The bandit skin is one of these things.

I am carrying both at the moment and a I regularly switch between them (dropped my civvy clothes). I usually set my pack down first though, don't want to lose it.

If there is a few of you, when you're geared I'd start looking for hospitals or hospital tents (Cherno or Elektro both have them) and stock up on blood bags. Very useful to a group and will increase your humanity if you follow the hero way.