Jamz

A lot of talking still, but nothing being said. Prove you lot have imagination and come up with a solution to this 'exploit' rather than simply removing it. That after all, would be the 'final solution', right?

This is a chance to help develop a view mode not yet seen in a mainstream pvp game, I'd like to see a modified third person replace the present version and first person stay. As we seem unable or unwilling to properly discuss fixes to third (for pvp, I disagree that it it is exploitable around zombies simply because their aggro range is so indistinct) beyond what is already being looked at, I'm going to mention my problems with the first person view. We all agree that while in first person there are absolutely no exploits to do with the view , but I find when playing in first that things seem very close, for instance when climbing a ladder it seems like my face is an inch away from the rungs rather than a foot away like it would be. A small detail, but part of the whole experience. Also, when prone in grass the inability to see what is ahead through it is unrealistic to me - there should at least be an action that raises the 'head' or camera POV to look over things (like if you raise your head in real life). The graphics seem to look more immersive in third, I'm not sure why but maybe the textures need reworking a little. Head bob is too exaggerated, I wouldn't want it removed but rather toned down and un-turnoffable. Lastly I'd like an easier way of looking around oneself to check the immediate vicinity. Maybe other people have similar issues with it, it's definitley an inferior and more frustating (but not any harder) experience when compared with other FPS games I've played. View wise, it actually reminds me a bit of BF1942, a game from 2002.

But wasn't this at least partially addressed with going FPV when prone? If that's not enough then how about adding that shoulder cam view displayed in an earlier post, that pretty much completely does away with the 'camera on a stick' exploit of third person. I don't really see how you could exploit the view at all after those four measures? Let me know if I'm wrong.

Well the view would return to third when the icon stopped flashing, meaning you hadn't necessarily escaped the other player but there had been no conflict for an amount of time. This, combined with the 1st person when prone and perhaps limiting the camera height so you can't see over walls would cover a few exploited situations I think? Can't think of a negative issue with this but I'm open for criticism of course.

I would suggest forcing first person when in combat (ie when the symbol is flashing), it would mean that once in combat with another player you would both be locked in 1st person until it ends. This would count with zombies too.

I like this idea a lot. You could expand it and have the game pull you into first person when you enter combat also, perhaps.

How about maybe trying to get Rockets reasons why he prefers 3rd person as well, I'm hoping he reads this thread and chips in if he has time. At the end of the day there is no right or wrong answer to this particular problem as ultimately it will depend on peoples preferences as to which aspect they go for, regardless of pros and cons. I think the main thing so far to take away from this discussion is that third person at the moment is exploitable and needs to be addressed, almost everyone agrees, so a list of options is a start at least.

Agreed, nameplates definitley have no place in the game as far as I'm concerned, they nullify the natural camouflage aspect which works so well in DayZ (it was a big problem in BF1942/Forgotten Hope). That would be something that I would vote to remove as they are unnecessary IMO. I think the third person thing is different though, I've read all comments on both threads and many suggestions I think are good (split servers by view, zoom in when prone, even remove third person with the provison that first person is reworked to feel more natural). For instance, nameplates wouldn't be such a problem if say they were only visible when you were within five metres of a player and in direct line of sight. I'm personally only against TPV's complete removal with no thought to consequences, which some here seem to consider acceptable. I'd like to see perhaps a number of these fixes rolled out as patches one after another month by month and then let the community vote on which fix they wanted to keep. I know it doesn't instantly solve the problem like removal of TPV might, but it might just not alienate a large proportion of the playerbase quite so much.

Totally different game, no correlation. There is much more than just pvp in DayZ, there isn't in MWO. In that situation the change of view aspect from first to third gives the game a console shooter feel which would attract the wrong audience, by the looks of that thread.

What you've done there is discount one possible solution. The most likely solution seems to be reigning in to first person when prone (and I guess, when crouch running and in vehicles). No extra workload on the server and perhaps a fix to this problem? Sounds like it...

Sounds like we've moved on to 'everyone should have to use 1st person cos 3rd is EZmode' rather than addressing the issue at hand. I still maintain that any advantage that third person could give in a given situation could be fixed without it's removal. If this is possible then there is simply plausable argument to go first person only. Why people are still banging on about making everyone play first person only seems to be a personal issue for some. If the advantages of third person are eliminated, then why do you care that other players might prefer that view to first person? 31 pages and still no actual answer to this question...

Well me too :) this is why I like this forum

Nobody has mentioned third person being the only option, you seem to be confused. Then why are you getting so worked up about this discussion? Isn't this exactly what you're arguing for?

This is not true, all the other games I play online are pvp (WOT, Eve, Planetside 2 etc), I came up from Quake 3 on FPS's and I love the pvp aspect of them and do quite well at it. To me though DayZ is a unique thing with many more possibilities. I expect I am not alone. I don't agree with your first statement, but I completely agree with your second. The way I see it there are two options, split servers into 1st or 3rd person only or as you say fix 3rd person to eliminate the problem. Removing it entirely is not the way.

I don't think you can compare DayZ to a standard FPS though. I agree with the negative point of third person being discussed but I find the game generally looks better in third and so is more immersive. The fact that you use iron sights to aim is irrelevant and works quite well with third person.

Players who want first person only seem to want to force everyone to do so to populate first person servers for their entertainment, judging by this thread. It's quite selfish, especially as there seem to be plenty of first person only players who could fill servers themselves if they wanted. The whole thing seems only to be an issue for players who primarily play for pvp, but they want to put it on the rest of us too.

That also works if there was never a first person option in DayZ though...

And there would be no thread and no discussion :)

I think they tried taking the making things a bit harder route when zombies were buffed, but they got whined back to easy again because some players found them too difficult to deal with. Fair enough, but if that's acceptable then being against the complete removal of third person is equally acceptable. All opinions should be considered equally. Sometimes, for a forum of balanced individuals, that mantra of 'it's a sandbox game you can play as you want' sounds a little hollow...

This is exactly what I mean too. You then have the best of all worlds including the option to go first person if preferred with no disadvantage during player engagements. I think the bottom line is that third person view is the most popular with the playerbase so just removing it altogether might not be such a wise idea. The problem is not the view aspect itself, but what it enables you to see. That's what needs to be addressed IMO but zooming to FP while prone would be an acceptable idea too if done right.

Exactly :) I'm neither for or against 3rd person view incidently. Seems the only issue with it is the advantage in certain situations which it might give during pvp. If that's right, then my line of sight idea would solve this and still allow people to play with either view with no advantage over the other.

Thanks for that, I understand. But if the situation were reversed then the other player would have the same advantage is what I mean.

This is why I have voted for 3rd person. As a compromise I think it would be better if third person view displayed non static objects in game by line of sight only, maybe the devs have already thought of that.

But you also have the option of third person so it isn't an unfair advantage.

No, I mean that if I'm stalking a player I need to know that things aren't poking out of the bush I'm hiding in etc. Third person makes it easier to be aware of how I'm hiding as first person does not include peripheral vision. I am a lone wolf and don't hunt players, simply occasionally stalk them (unless they spot me) I use third person to gauge my surroundings easier as I play on low pop servers, not to give me an edge over other players (who of course also have access to third person) but I would be happy enough to use only first person provided it was somehow modded to include my peripheral vision. Otherwise probably not. Not everyone who uses third person exploits it to kill players...