Jamz

That's easy, simply because there is no other game like this. It is particularly important in DayZ for there to be an exploit free third person view, which is why it's an issue being worked on. Also that attitude is a defeatest attitude which games designers just wouldn't have.

Are you asking me that? If its not a rhetorical question then no I don't mind shooting people in first or third person, as I do now. I'm not against FPV, as I've already stated I switch between views but I'm against the complete removal of TPV unnecessarily. Regarding FPV/ TPV trending towards TPV only (which I agree with) I assume you mean for servers, in which case I think that's a different issue. It seems players are forced onto populated servers regardless of whether they want FPV or TPV. See my post above this one.

I'm bowing out here, simply because you seem certain that TPV can't be fixed properly and I think it can. I don't want this thread to become another circular argument about opinions as it's a purile waste of time.

Then do you not think a poll of simply what view would you prefer: FPV yes/no or TPV yes/no would suffice? Then you push people to make a decision between the two without making the results look like they would only play if their choice was the chosen one. If you intend to use poll results as evidence for an argument then the wording of the poll is of paramount importance.

'The removal of the TPV would prompt fair game-play rather than cheap game-play.' If it can be fixed, then it has the exact same effect as its removal. Fair rather than cheap gameplay. Your statement depends on the assumption that TPV can't be fixed which if inaccurate removes any difference in fairness of gameplay between the two views. Adequate explanation?

What I'm saying is that I suspect everyone would want to vote for both but are unable to do so. I think everyone would play DayZ regardless of which view was left in or removed, and would continue to 'discuss' on the forums. If you want to know which view players prefer then simply ask that. I'd suggest setting up your poll, but I'm not sure any more polls at all would be a good idea at the moment.

Er sorry to chop in here but this is kind of irrelevant too. If third person is changed in a way that fixes its exploits then it doesn't matter if some people don't like how it is, you can use FPV without an issue. That after all is the point. Besides, if it turns out that TPV can't be fixed in an adequate way then removal altogether will still be an option, but at least they tried to make it work.

You can't possibly know that so that is an assumption, which then discredits your last statement.

That would be misleading as you could only vote for one or the other, suggesting everyone would only buy it if it was only one or the other. What if everyone who voted would actually buy it either way? You would never know.

I proved that a players preference is important in a video game, nothing more. I'm sure you understand that perfectly well, being a player with a strong preference yourself :) Incidently, the point of this discussion was originally to come up with ways to fix the exploits in TPV if I'm not mistaken. So the fact that they exist now is not really an argument anymore....

I did vote in the other poll on here too, which actually seemed like a more useful one than this one. Perhaps you should put up a similar poll on here and Reddit titled 'would you still play DayZ if nothing was changed'? I'd bet that almost everyone who plays now would vote yes.

I would still play the SA without a TPV option as would everybody I'm sure so I voted yes. However I'm sure there would be a mirrored response on a poll titled 'would you still play the SA if first person view was scrapped and TPV fixed?'. What sort of person would be petty enough to boycott a whole game just because they didn't get what they wanted? I think this particular poll is of very limited use...

Arrogance is no friend to discussion. If you truly want some reasons as to why it's worth keeping TPV in some form, I think the most important one is that some people simply prefer it. For me for instance, the increased view of the world which I get makes me feel more like I'm actually there in TPV (especially in open areas), it also gives me an added sense of vulnerability which I don't get in FPV (I simply don't feel more disconnected in TPV which some people seem to be inferring) as I am always aware of my physical self. Lastly, in some situations it actually is a disadvantage too. In a situation when entering a building with a zombie inside and to one side of the door I'm entering through, I actually see him a split second later in TPV than I would in FPV due to the viewpoint being behind myself. It's not much, but enough to catch me out if I'm not careful enough. I'm sure many people don't agree with me, as I don't agree with many peoples opinions to scrap TPV altogether. This is how it should be.

Sadly no, but I think some good ideas are out there and if nothing else this thread has made some people (not many) see both sides (sic) of the two viewpoints. This is also being done as TPV is being kept in, it will be modified. Things could of course change in the future for both the SA and the mod, but I think we on the forum, the more serious players of DayZ, have a responsibility to help if we can by giving opinions and ideas on changes/improvements.

It sounds a bit complicated, but not a bad idea. I'd rename the server types 'Realism' (FPV/TPV, low tech weapons, lower food availability and more zombies) and 'Hardcore' (FPV only, higher tech weapons, easier survival dynamics). Then there are two balanced server settings, each giving a different gameplay experience and each catering for a different type of player.

Third person is not being removed, we know that already.

Whereas I would love there to be different servers with different loot levels, so I could play on low tech loot servers only (actually the most 'hardcore'), I can see this open to abuse, with players going to FPV servers to farm high end weapons and then jumping to TPV servers with those weapons to give themselves an advantage equipment wise. In other words, an exploit, just like the one which this thread was supposed to be about. The only ways it would work would be either two separate hives or this option would be only available on private servers (which I'm in favour of personally). If it were a private server thing, I would play equally on all three server types no doubt (and hope both views are fixed).

Thats a very simple way of looking at it, but maybe things aren't quite so black and white as you seem to think. You probably won't understand this but both types of view have benefits and negatives, the trick is to lose the negatives and combine the positives. Its not a compromise, more like building something better out of two broken things.

If you want to treat the game as an FPS then that's fine, but no one should try and make it an FPS. It's a player populated zombie survival sim which presently defies pidgeonholeing. A PPZSS if you will.

I think the only way around the offset cam creating possible disorientation inside buildings would be to go first person in that situation, so the mouse roller could be used to roll into FPV when you enter if you like, or stay in shouldercam if you'd rather sacrifice spatial awareness a little. Regarding the blind spot advantage, the player would select either left or right shoulder at the beginning of each life so no one could tell which shoulder their view is over just by looking at someone else. Also personally I would want to roll into FPV when approaching and entering buildings as in this case, it would have the advantage over TPV. What do you think of possible exploits of this system in pvp?

I've now given up trying to put forward ideas to improve things re this discussion, constructive posts will just get buried by pages of arguments about 'which view is the best'. I'd love to see servers split into first and third person only in equal numbers but it seems that this isn't viable (I don't understand why though). Fixing the problem in third is the next option as I see it, which seems to be in hand anyway so this thread really serves no purpose now. For the record, one reason I mostly play in third person is because I actually find it more thrilling from a pve perspective. Obviously you will get used to either view so the 'fear' arguement is an empty one when playing a video game (All fear was lost when playing left 4 dead after a few days as I got used to it) familiarity eliminates fear. but having a physical representation of 'me' on screen at all times enhances my vulnerability. FPV can be like looking through a window, or through a visor etc but there is a degree of separation from the game world for me when using it. If I make a judgement error and get swarmed by zombies for instance, I find there is a bit more panic if I can see them surround me and beat on me from third person. As I can't actually feel anything, then seeing and hearing is all the game has to induce atmosphere, with FPV it's just irritating that you can't see the attackers but with third, you can see yourself being killed... From my experience the only problem is the floating cam exploit which mostly affects pvp (in pve I find that quite often zombies see me through walls or from miles away, sometimes they don't see me when I run right past them, so whether I can see them over walls or not is kind of moot. If it is fixed in the SA then I might think differently but personally I'm not sure it even will be). I'd like to see that fixed with minimal impact on my enjoyment of DayZ, after all, thats what everybody wants, right?

Hopefully in the SA, the new melee system will mean that you and a couple of friends will be able to dispatch zombies inside by beating them with snooker cue's to a Queen song.

I'd ideally like to be switching between first and third person views depending on the situation I think. A lot of the suggestions seem to be aiming towards tying the two together a bit, I wonder if that could be made fluent so it doesn't break immersion or gameplay... At the same time we don't really want the view going in and out like a yo yo. I wouldn't think too much could be done to alter the viewpoint in the mod but it would be great if the SA had a FPV that you could slide out to a position over the right or left shoulder (players choice) up to maybe 15" back. Camera height would be locked at head height but you could see your guys head move if you look up or down. Just roll the mouse roller back into first when needed, so moving in and out FPV to TPV becomes natural. Of course, this would mean not using the mouse roller for menu's unless moused over loot/door/ladder etc, when the menu activates instead of the cam zoom. Hope you guys get what I mean. What do you think?

Thats not bad, maybe with a slider to roll in and out of FPV? I wonder if it might look a little confusing in Third though if the cam is directly behind, we don't want to obscure anything or make it too difficult to see slight distant movement etc. looking over walls and around corners is probably the biggest issue with TPV at the moment, which this would address. Can we address these issues with an offset cam?

Kind of like this? http://ccs.infospace.com/ClickHandler.ashx?du=http%3a%2f%2fimg2.generation-nt.com%2fred-faction-armageddon-4_09050002D000901861.jpg&ru=http%3a%2f%2fimg2.generation-nt.com%2fred-faction-armageddon-4_09050002D000901861.jpg&ld=20130828&ap=5&app=1&c=facemoodsv4.1002&s=facemoodsv4&coi=772&cop=main-title&euip=2.125.3.221&npp=5&p=0&pp=0&pvaid=8f4098dc910743a8a9ee6d343f9f896f&ep=5&mid=9&en=pJl5jd2FjawFzO2%2f4rLC47cC1JpYx%2fA3sVRowBlo7jnYuCj0TVbjUw%3d%3d&hash=5D5D4212C1C0B18CCEEA4265EA935437