The Sad Panda

I'll be completely honest, your post confused me a bit, so I'm going to try to reply as best I can. Please forgive any misunderstandings that I may have. Yes, I enjoy tents, I'm not trying to hide that fact. They provide alot of functionality to the game that allows players to further advance their goals. Unfortunately, like many such as yourself have pointed out, they diminish the effect of "Permadeath" in DayZ. Despite this, they provide a sense of permanence, a way to begin rebuilding a shattered world if you will. If you happen to have viewed Rocket's SideStrafe or Machinima interviews, you'd notice that this is one of the "End-game" options that he would like to open up in the future of DayZ. To your first point, I don't actually see how this would address the issue of players re-gearing after death, which is an issue - that I agree with you on. I think a fact that many people ignore though, is that inventory, both in tents and vehicles, opens up more gameplay options.If you've read my previous posts on this thread, I can't really think of any way else to make that clearer, you either see my point and acknowledge it, or completely disagree with it to a point that I can't convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to go into much more detail on it. To your second point, I've also already addressed this and how it would be completely detrimental to many forms of team-play, almost to the point where it's game-breaking. I've mentioned organized group play, but what about all the traders and merchants? The removal of external storage invalidates their play styles as well. The way I see it, is removing tents would be a step backwards in terms of gameplay. (And no matter how many times people quote Rocket's "Anti-game" line, it's undeniable that this is still a game, you launch it via the executable file and use it for entertainment value). I don't think you realize just how much external storage does for LEGITIMATE gameplay, in my personal opinion it completely outweighs the cheating death aspect. Like I said, cheating death is something that needs to be addressed (not just storage, but Alt+F4 as well), but it absolutely cannot be a knee-jerk reaction because part of the playerbase is upset. Knee-Jerk reactions kill games, plain and simple. Moving onto your second paragraph, this is where I became confused. I don't know exactly what you're addressing here, or how having a guard on your tents is an exploit. Perhaps you can clarify? I also already addressed the matter on your third mini-paragraph, because 1. If only the owner of the tent could deposit / withdrawl, it essentially makes the tent a bank, which makes it immune to raiding, which is (at least in my opinion) against the nature of the game 2. If only the owner of the tent could deposit, but others could withdraw, you still don't solve the problem of players re-gearing at tents. A team would go out scavenging, give all their items to the tent owner to deposit, and when he's finished he logs off. The only way to counter this would be to camp their tents 24/7 and wait for an opportunity to kill them I don't believe tents are "cheap" or "easy-mode" by their nature, I think you're just ignoring all the benefits they bring to the game. You do have a point though, which I have agreed with multiple times when replying to multiple people, tents shouldn't be an extra-life. The problem is how to solve it without decimating multiple playstyles. I really can't make it any clearer than that.

Just keep in mind that not everyone that offers has pure intentions in mind, many people would invite you to play just to shoot you unarmed on the beach.

@Strategos Like I said, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject. I got the experience I was looking for from DayZ, and never once did I believe that the experience would be equal to or better if I had been playing solo. You're right though, I did choose my words poorly. I can't say that my experiences are on the same level as someone who started playing solo, because they're two completely different experiences that just can't be compared. I wouldn't trade my experiences for the world, even if they are somehow lesser because of how we made them.

In security. if you fail to plan, you're planning to fail. Better to brainstorm ideas and solutions to problems now than to have a headache trying to fix them when they're actual problems. With current technology, you're right, it's pretty much impossible to get a 100% genuine sandbox, we can only try to make the one we have better and better

We may just end up agreeing to disagree here, but I don't agree with immersion = starting solo with no social ties. Radios aren't actually implemented in the game yet, but is it a complete stretch of the imagination to believe that external VOIP = Radios? (Don't get me wrong, REAL radios would be awesome in-game, would add a new dimension to new spawns, finding a radio to get in contact with your group, or spying on other people's channels...delicious). When I first started this mod, I already had real friends to play it with, and I can say without a doubt that it didn't diminish the experience one bit. We started off trying to locate eachother, with only the starlight and street signs to guide our path - no map, we've been exploring, went on raids, we've been shot and killed - everything. Is it the exact same as starting solo? No, obviously not. Does that make it less of an experience? No, just different. When we play the game, we do so in a fairly serious manner, in that we don't go herp derping through town at full speed because we know we have backup, we crawl through the sidestreets, check our corners, and get excited for good loot just the same as a solo player. Now on the matter of direct coms, it's pretty much along the same lines as the in-game map...it's clunky and immersion breaking in itself. If Rocket really wants in-game voip to be the primary mode of communication (I haven't heard him mention it in any of his youtube interviews, maybe i just wasn't paying attention / haven't read it on these forums) then his team has some serious work to do in the standalone, because as it is it's far too clunky for its intended use. Don't get me wrong, the system works perfectly at it's intended purpose - communication in Arma II, but it unrealistic and immersion breaking in DayZ. Should an enemy player be able to hear my whispers from within directCom range (what is it, like 80m?) when they're intended to be to the person right next to me, in as hushed a tone as possible? I don't think so. Should I be able to broadcast to the entire server via sidechat? I don't think we come with a built in radio, so probably not. It's a lesser of two evils type argument, with my vote going to external Voip. Sure, I still direct-com chat to unknown players that I see, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but the system needs alot of polish before it becomes accepted on a large scale. Also, @Honest Bill Exactly, and let me reiterate that I'm not trying to be difficult or single minded with my posts, I do try to look at them at every which way possible, which probably makes me come off as inflammatory or confrontational, which is far from my intent.

See: Keeping tent owner restricted to safe areas / logged out / tent owner is on 2nd CD Key, and kept logged out and invulnerable

Primary Weapon (Preferably some form of AR, but I have been known to provide overwatch as a Marksman) Three Mags (One in gun, two in reserve) Pistol (Prefer G17 or M1911) Four Mags Four Bandages Two Smoke Grenades One Frag One Morphine Stick One Blood Bag (Even when solo, I'm not opposed to playing Medic for strangers) In Backpack (Alice) Two Cooked Meat Two Water Bottles Painkillers Jerry Can (If Im using a car at the time) Roadflares

That's one way to simplify it, but by doing so (If I understand you correctly) then you are also making the tent unlootable by other players, effectively making the tent a bank that cannot be stolen from by raiders. Also, I haven't encountered anything in DayZ (or Base Arma) that is only lootable by a single player, so it would have to be proven possible first

..What? No offense intended, but who is one person to decide what "The DayZ experience" is? It's a sandbox, not a linear scripted game. The experience is what you make of it. Why on Earth is the only "acceptable" experience to be a lone wolf stranded out in the middle of nowhere. Are you seriously implying that being in Ventrilo / TS3 with friends somehow ensures your safety? Because I can guarantee you it doesn't, I've got dead characters all over the map with .50 cal sized holes to prove it. Even though i regularly play with real life friends, I still try to reach out to others that I find. I get shot for it...alot, but sometimes I do find a decent human being and have a conversation with them, they even join us for a while on occasion. Why is that NOT a valid DayZ experience? Just because other people's playstyles don't line up with your own, doesn't make it wrong Please elaborate on your statement

That's fair enough, but for the sake of discussion I have to open Pandora's box here a little bit Let's say we tie tents to the current existence of a character (Sort of like they are now, you can't take a tent down that wasn't set up by that specific character. If that character dies and the player creates a new one, they still can't take the tent down). When the character owning said tent dies, every piece of loot, including the tent, is completely erased. This works exactly as intended for solo players (as far as tents go, vehicle storage is another matter, will get to that in a minute). But what happens when the dead player was part of a group. If a team goes out to raid, let's say Cherno, for supplies or to pick up a buddy, or to PK or whatever, it doesn't really matter. A few minutes in, Jimmy (or whatever you want the person's name to be) is shot and killed. Now normally this wouldn't be that big of a deal, his team can (hopefully) fight off Jimmy's attacker, and loot his body for anything important that may need to be recovered. But wait Jimmy had set up the medical tent back at the base. Now an entire group (could be small 2-3 man group, or it could be a rather large 20+ force of players) has lost all of its stockpiled medical supplies. Is that an acceptable loss? Is it the authentic experience that Rocket is going for? After all, Jimmy wasn't the only one who went out and gathered all of those blood bags, epi-pens, morphine injectors, it was a group effort. Do groups now and forever restrict the tent owners from going anywhere remotely dangerous? What about someone buying a 2nd CD key and setting up tents with that character. never to have it log in and be vulnerable again? What about cars - what determines their owner; the last one to drive it. the last person to store items in it, or the person who originally fixed it up? Is the solution still working as intended? What about linking specific items to the character, instead of the storage medium. First of all, can the VR 3/4 engine even DO that? I have no idea, but I've seen no indication that it can. What about community type items such as food, water, and ammunition. They don't really belong to anyone in a sense, they're just there for anyone to use. It still doesn't stop the problem of 2nd CD characters (especially with standalone launching at a reduced price, it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that people would do this to avoid the "Perma-Death" of the game) being the foraging mules, while the "Main" characters are free to pluck what they want from the tents and be on their merry way. I'm not opposed to death having more meaning in DayZ, in fact I'd welcome the challenge. However, the implementation of such a thing has to be handled with the utmost care, because a single wrong step can throw the entire machine out of sorts. Perhaps with the freedom of the standalone project, many of the game's current issues can be addressed in one way or another, but until then our problems must be addressed with a delicate touch.

Just gonna point this out, but one of the few things that keeps many players (myself included admittedly) on the friendly side of the spectrum, is that base building and vehicle hunting provides loosely structured, but still satisfying and achievable goals. Unless someone is directly threatening myself, or a member of my group, I don't have any motivation to harm them while we're working on these goals. If you remove tents, you make storing vehicle parts exponentially harder (Have you ever TRIED to carry more than one tire with a full combat load?), and if you put repairing vehicles out of reach...you've potentially spawned more players without a solid goal, leading to more random killings. Maybe it's BECAUSE I play in a group that I'm still in favor of tents, i can't really be sure. I don't think that it's an abuse of the game to store the weapons we don't need at the time (Why on earth would I need my M4A3 CCO, when I'm supposed to be providing over-watch with my M14 AIM?). We're playing in the sandbox as we see fit, I see no legitimate reason why we should each have to carry > Excessive Food / Water (Can't store it in tents if they're removed) > Extra Medication (Currently we get away with carrying 1 blood bag / morphine each, can't do that if we constantly have to go to cherno / beriz / elektro to refill personal supplies) > Jerry Cans to fuel vehicles (Couldn't store them in the truck anymore) > Car parts (6 slots for a wheel, hope you don't need to be carrying anything else important > Spare weapons (M24 just doesn't cut it when you have to enter the town, gotta carry that extra MP5 if you want to not spend the firefight hiding behind a wall) > Ammo (I like my guns to be able to shoot at things, but maybe I'm just being silly) The removal of storage mechanics is NOT the answer that this game needs. If anything, a better and more realistic solution that isn't cancerous to entire playstyles, would to have weapons and equipment degrade over time, and require repair or replacement (like I mentioned in my other post). Jerry cans can spring leaks, weapons can fall into disrepair, food (Steaks, any other non-preserved food that's implemented) can rot, even tents could require an occasional patching up / replacement. Removing storage all together would be a TERRIBLE knee-jerk reaction to a problem that's not even necessarily the fault of the mod itself, sure there are tents completely LITTERED with duped anti-material rifles, clothing, ammo, what have you. But it's far from the tent's fault

My humanity (along with Zombie kills, Headshots, Murders, and Bandit Kills) reset every time I enter any server. Apparently I can do no wrong, or right

Before I begin, I'd like to point out that I'm not angry, I don't hate the OP's guts, but I do have differing opinions about the game, and would like to post them for the sake of discussion. Nothing more, nothing less Perma-Death I think some of this just stems from differing ways of seeing the game. Your first point for example. Perma-death is somewhat of an oddity in the gaming industry, for obvious reasons. That's not to say that it's BAD, but it does stand in stark contrast to the industries current model of > Start new character > Progress character > Keep character on gear / xp treadmill Why is this model so widely accepted by developers? Because it's believed that this will increase the longevity of the title. Now let's take a look at DayZ, > No experience > No specific skills > "Progression" (if you can really call it that) is measured in your characters gear The main penalty of perma-death isn't even present in DayZ, you don't have any XP or skills to lose. You can, essentially, dump all your gear into a tent except a bandage and pain-killers, and you've essentially "died". The death system in this game doesn't follow the same rules as other "perma-death" systems, because it's not LIKE other systems. So that makes gear the current driving force in the world of post-infection Chernarus. Without the hunt for more and better gear, the game essentially turns into finding a field that spawns livestock that's also close to a watering hole. That's it, you've won the game - congratulations. Now proceed to survive to Day 100, you can't lose. You are right on the point that being able to re-aquire the same gear from your body diminishes the "perma-death" aspect of the game, but you're not looking at it from all angles here. There is an established (Most would say over-developed at this point) culture of PKing, or Banditry in this game. The entire playstyle revolves around hunting other PLAYERS in order to take their GEAR. That's how they progress (Note, I'm speaking of actual Banditry, not LOL I BE SNIPIN AT CHERNO). Now, let's implement the style of perma-death found in other games - once a character dies, their gear disappears from the world forever. You've just killed an entire playstyle with that one change. I submit to the readers that the looting of player corpses (by friend or foe alike) is an integral part of the game. This is a survival sim, you should be able to scavenge everything possible. Now, gear degradation and damage....that's a whole nother ballpark. Gun begins to jam because it's improperly maintained? Better find a cleaning kit, or get a new gun. Your NVGs took a bullet when your last character was shot? Guess you've gotta find a new pair. Think about it. Scavenging Maybe we just see this issue differently, but I think a "Loot - Agriculture" type of system can be healthy for the game, not detrimental. Once you've got the basics of survival down, there's not much for you to accomplish anymore, aside from placing a bullet between another survivor's eyes. When you begin to set up a permanent residence, you stop surviving and begin to thrive - to rebuild "civilization" or so to speak. Now I will agree with you that server-hopping is wrong, it's against the risk/reward system that drives the game's atmosphere. Instead of having to carefully pick and choose what locations you visit to find the resources you need, it turns into "LOL made it to the barracks, better start hopping till I've got an M4 CCO SD and M107 with 6 mags each!!!! YOLO!!!!". I'm divided on the external loot map situation, so let me explain - I use DayZDB's loot map.... but I don't want to. I want to be able to find a map in the game, and make PERSONAL notations on it. This vehicle can spawn here.... there's a supermarket and some high value residentials in this area of Beriz... Ect. Sadly though, I can't. Every notation I make on the map right now can be seen by everyone else on the server with a map. I would MUCH rather learn the loot by exploration, than by having it just handed to me, but it is what it is. I also find nothing wrong with clan stockpiling as far as game mechanics are concerned. Me and my crew (3-4 others, not really a clan) had a camp setup on the large island at one point. We had a boat, tents with medical supplies, spare weapons, ammo, and food. It wasn't much, but it allowed us to partake in different aspects of the game more efficiently. We managed to locate and repair a helicopter, and a ground vehicle or two. Our base allowed us to streamline to the process because we didn't have to make constant stops in high-danger environments to pick up medical supplies and food, instead we were as a group able to do one-two trips to bring back enough goods to last for a few days. It all comes back to the concept of thriving in a harsh world. And believe me, it is a harsh world. To anyone who believes that tent stockpiles are against the nature of the game, well you really do confuse me sometimes. Many people seem to forget that tents are not locked...they can be raided by other players (which they rightfully should be able to do), or even completely destroyed, taking all that was stashed inside with them. And believe me, it happens. My group has been set back to square one so many times it almost makes my head spin, but that's part of the game.... for every person seeking to thrive, there's another that wants to see the world burn - and that's what makes this game special. Resources I 100% totally agree. with over 400 man hours (group's combined total) we've only ever found two ghillie suits, ONE M107, and ONE pair of NVGs. Even accounting for supreme amounts of bad luck, it still doesn't explain why every sniper and their mother has NVG, Ghillie, AS50, L85 AWS backup in bag, and enough rounds to hold off a tank column. I won't bother with the other two because I agree with the sentiment, in fact if there was a group-spawn implemented, I would lose alot of respect for the game. I would like to add though that not every organized group KoS's. If we find a player (outside of NW airfield, that's a free-fire zone to us), one of us usually tries to approach the player while the others provide overwatch. Sure, we get shot in the face alot, but sometimes we do meet other players that are indeed "Friendly"

I really live in the north mostly But i loved that the ocean was an option, so i felt obligated

▲ ▲ ▲ Problem?

I believe the main contributing factor to this problem is that beyond the initial learning curve of figuring out exactly how to survive in this world, there's really not that much for players to do (I believe rocket has even stated this in a few interviews iirc) Once a player gets the basics down, survival against the environment becomes almost trivial, the real challenge comes from PvP, so naturally people flock to it. Don't get me wrong, I don't run around KoSing everything that moves, I follow a strict "Don't fire unless fired upon" policy (well, everywhere except in the NW airfield, that's a free-fire zone for obvious reasons). The fact remains though, that once your basic needs are met, there's really no incentive to NOT shoot players. Aside from blood bags and epi-pens, you can pretty much lone wolf to your hearts content. Perhaps once we get some more of the world-shaping tools that Rocket has hinted at (Digging underground bases, sorts of farming, player specific skills?) then we may see a recession of the current KoS style gameplay. Until then, if playing SniperCon 2012 becomes too much of a burden, it'd probably be best to just take a break for your own sanity

I had a dream once > Constructed a modest base of tents in a relatively secluded area > Lined the perimeter with wire and sandbags (for mostly aesthetic purposes, really) > Managed to find and repair a few vehicles, brought them to the base > Three days passed. no hackers destroyed base by spawning a carrier on top of it > Feelsgoodman.jpg > Suddenly a shot rings out, explodes a can of pasta on the shelf behind me > Ohh no, there's spaghetti on the floor > Everybody walk the dinosaur Then I woke up

To support Rocket's vision of an Eve-like world, the game would have to support a map larger than chernarus, although personally I would love to play in the current chernarus with every building being enterable, but i doubt that's in store for the game's future

I didn't see an option for "Keep barbed wire in the game, but allow it to be destroyed with a hatchet" So I didn't vote

I hope you've got your affairs in order, now that you've spoken it's name, you're not long for this world.

Steak > All Coke > Pepsi Hard Mode: Only drink Mt. Dew or die of dehydration

> Skims list of items > Looks pretty interesting > Mountain Dew on list > All your gear is now cursed > The Mountain is always watching

The guy with an axe playing the audio file is just a hacker having some creative fun (better than putting everyone in the air / ocean / LOLTHUNDERDOME). There's been videos posted on youtube about it, try looking for naucht de horror or something of the sort on youtube