HardTarget

What you're suggesting reminds me of what Okt mentioned earlier regarding player details/character visual data (Although that was in his linked former thread). However I'm not sure I'm entirely keen on a "swap" mechanic. I feel descriptions (if implimented) should all be handled by basis of the player's own ability to memorize, rather than a set ingame mechanic. I'm alright with having player descriptions, but how would they be handled? Would they be made for each new character someone makes? Auto-generated on respawn? Also, while some think the view distance should be very close (25m~ish), what Razz said I feel holds true, we have a LOT of life's subtleties that are left out in a video game medium for simulation, so we can't entirely identify a lot of the give-aways that would tell who is who. Furthermore, if we want pure "realism", tear all the darn weapondry out, this amount of guns would not be around in this area of Russia in an apocalypse. I say it should be extended to typical Arma 2 encounter distances, or at least 100m. I would NOT want to use this mechanic if it required I had to hump up to some guy when I can rather take the time to just keep an eye on them from afar (I am fine with the need however to use scopes/binoculars for this distance). Anyway, back to lurking for any additional new ideas/input, I'm thinking over some of the other aspects myself to see if I can come up with any better systems/new ideas.

Glad this has gotten attention, and a good amount of points have been brought up. The only thing I'm going to warn is to be careful with the bump use, allow the thread to slip a bit to the back, Forum rules and all. I'm certain other ideas of merit are laying about waiting for their moment to shine (Oktyabr's former mention in a thread very akin to this one, for example). If any new discussion/comments regarding it appear, I'll take the time to respond and have a discussion regarding mechanics/points or anything else. Until then, I'll be in the background watching it (unless I think up something new to add). Although I have loved the points people have brought up regarding certain ideas, has definately refined how the mechanics functions (particularly most of it seems centered in the identification aspect, rather than naming, as no one wants it to be exploited too much).

Oh damn, surprised I didn't see that former thread Oktyabr. Although a lot of discussion HAS been admittedly have on recognition, so I can see potential overlap by accident. I'll try to read through all the comments as I can, so I can get a clearer view/new ideas on how to alter the concept. The main issue I see within recognition at the extremely close distance you listed (25m) limits understanding who you're observing to a very, very close-quarters scenario unless you keep eye contact at all times on them/don't break line of sight. This is, after all, DayZ implimented into Arma2, which many of the firefights and encounters are not always at such an extremely close distance. I've had a few, but most of my firefights end up at the very least 100m if not more, away from others. Maybe it's from how I play, I may be biased in that case. The colour for "friendly/foe" is amusing, but the idea behind it was just to add it as a means of naming people, without adding in an artificial mechanic to tell the "good from the bad", so to speak. The other question I lay with that colour theme is, that you've been near someone x amount of time, how does it recognize barriers/walls/etc? That may end up exploited by hiding near someone through a wall, only to have their name come up in green later so you can more visibly "see" them, despite knowing little-to-nothing about them, or even confusing someone else since they'll see green and hesitate, despite the fact you have every intention of mauling them. I don't think a mechanic to "label" if they're nice or not is needed, it should be by the player's memory alone in my opinion, no system to identify that for you. The identification should be personal to your own recollection of that individual, so long as you're certain it's the same person. Certainly your way holds merit, but I (personally, and nothing against you) think it's against the vision of the game that it's up to the player to do what he can himself (the same reason we don't need to read books/manuals in DayZ to pilot a helicopter, all up to the player). Still, great minds and all that right?

Interesting, perhaps also have it (since it's a sound file I presume) attract zombies within a certain radius. Multi-purpose it. Risk giving away your position to draw zombies to a spot to more easily sneak around/get into buildings. There will be those who abuse the whistle, but the point is it does give you away due to the sound, so if a bandit uses it, while you can't ever be sure of someone's intentions, it DOES give their position away. Although as Zipper said you can do this yourself, I have to note not everyone can whistle (although, if we want to bring realism into this, I guess you can point that out as well, since not everyone can, why should all survivors?) Still, amusing little idea you got, and it might just serve the purpose you're looking for.

I agree' date=' hence why I've brought up other ideas. Some people are indeed putting in better ideas that are more feasible than what I suggested, such as Hoik's 5-10s idea. Also, as noted from all the other posts (as well as your own) that a distance would probably go a long way to prevent people from exploiting, which I had offered as a suggestion beforehand. 300m unscoped/500 scoped/binocs? Or maybe 100/300? A lot of people are saying to add a distancer in, so what are the numbers that we should try out first? I think it's the wording I used, but as I said in the OP I want to make it as little on the servers as possible, I.E. purely clientside. When I say "database", I meant like a sort of SQL file that the client can reference with any potential ID matches given to it by the server. The server already ID's and tells your client about the ID's of other players/characters, so it wouldn't add to the overload. So, say you write someone as "Foe" ingame, your client knows their ID is from the server prior. Later on, you see this person again, and the client checks, in it's own file, for the ID if it's present or not, comparing it to the data already given to it by the server. That way, no extra loading is taken on part of the server. I would argue then it serves it's purpose! :D That would be hilarious, so long as it doesn't tell you who had given you what name. The amounts of ridiculous names a long-life could hold with much interactions would be quite the amusing case. Not sure how that would be potentially coded though, with as little server load as possible. -------------- I'll take some time to now edit the OP to put in some stuff talked about here, as I'm certain we'll have a few oddities who will post without reading the discussion, and I want to make sure the finer points brought up by those who have discussed are addressed.

Surprised at the amount of positive response, although can't say I'm complaining! The one thing I'll talk about while here is what Hoik said, regarding ways to prevent exploiting. The false-positive is amusing, but I think the one piece of brilliance was the prolonged examination. I believe this is somewhat implimented already (you get the mark of "man" on a person for a bit before a name at times with normal Arma recognition), but would work well with the idea to prevent "scanning" of areas. Have it so you have to hover over the person for 5-10s before you saw the nickname you gave someone would definately make it far more difficult to exploit it if you didn't already have a clear view of someone. Also, descriptions of players may be possible, but I wouldn't know the exact details of how to "spread the word" so to speak. If you guys think up anything new, leave a note! Anything that helps refine the idea, or point out a possible exploit will develop it further.

@Howler: Yes, it is, since it's just "name popup", so to speak. Although it's different in that you chose the name, and you have to actually see them, the problem is a game can only be as realistic as the medium allows. I'd love it if we had custom everything about our characters to easily tell who is who, but sadly, we have to work in the confines of an engine. Although I hope the text isn't nearly as big, that blatantly large text can be annoying for longer names. @Johnchio: Whoa whoa whoa, hold up, one idea at a time mate! First off, not sure on the map part, there is a server setting akin to this where, if you view someone, the last place you viewed them appears on the map. A lot of people dislike this (myself included), and I really don't agree with that part, myself. As for the "buddy/Enemy" list, Rocket's stated before he doesn't want to add anything that benefits any sort of playstyle, and having friendlies immune to being shot by me would benefit anyone in a team. No go on that end. Glad you like the idea though.

As a forewarning, this is an idea regarding player identity/identifying fellow/enemy players, in which I've been trying to work the mechanics out on it. Also: If you're the lazy type, I always put a TL: DR at the end, but I suggest reading it all through if you intend to comment. A bit of talk has been had regarding servers which have enabled the current default Arma identification system (That hover-over mouse that says "HI MY NAME IS"), and a good deal find it fairly exploitable, while others want it as a means to tell who is who. My personal opinion is, indeed, that the biggest exploit of "tree-line scanning" (I.E. Using it to scan an area to try and pick out a name) is definately a reason it shouldn't exist, but I don't feel we need to punish everyone to having to use other means to identify people, just because of a system. If the system or mechanic is bad, replace it, rather than erase it. So, how would we make an ingame option that allows you to notice who's who in DayZ? Note: I'm aware there are threads on this issue, but I feel as this is an idea that (AFAIK) is unique, I gave it it's own thread. If a Mod prefers I merge it with a different topic, just give me a heads-up The Idea: Instead of a "hitscan OH HAI I'M " system, I think a more practical method would be to name other players, yourself. "Wait, what?!" you may ask, and allow me to explain in detail. Let's say, you happen to see some person, running about, in a city. Let's say Cherno, if for whatever reason you dared to go near that place. You look at him, and as you watch over him, you go to the scroll menu, and a nice little action comes up, stated "Name Individual". You go, you click it, and a little chatbox menu comes up where you type in a name. YOU name it, based upon how you want to figure the person/remember them. You can call them anything arbitrary if you wish, be it something simple as "noob" or "that moron in Cherno", or you could be especially creative and utilize cursing in manners I won't use on this forum, but YOU name that person. Each time you see that character, now you have the name YOU gave him, rather than just their normal character name. This gives you a way of identifying players, without some arbitrary means of magically knowing their name, while still accepting that, "This is a game, and a lot of life's subtleties are left out" (such as actual face details, or other features to tell by). This makes it a bit interesting, and a way of recalling players. Say after you named this guy running through Cherno as "Zombie Pulling Dolt", after seeing him draw a horde, and you go into Cherno, you see this man again. You see his name as what you named him prior, or "Zombie Pulling Dolt", and realise "Oh, that's the idiot who dragged that horde with him". You take that knowledge of what you saw them do, and how you personally remember them to make a decision on how you act with that person. Obviously, if he drew a crowd, you likely don't want to get near him, or if you're the other kind, give him a small bullet in his cranium for his troubles. With prior player knowledge on how other's acted, you can act more accordingly. Story time, if you're a TL: DR'er, skip this part to the "Mechanics" section. More importantly, however, is the fact that this can, over time, be changed/lost. Let's say you meet someone sneaking at Stary, and labeled them "Suspicious Stary Stalker", or for something easier, "Stealther01". You later run into that person, again, but you managed to sneak up on him. You recall he was very weary and careful about the zombies, and had attracted practically nothing. Obviously this person is far more skilled in stealth than the average joe survivor, so you think "is he in a group? Could I ask him to join up with me?". You decide (going against the current consensus of "Shoot him" offhand), since you're behind him without his knowledge, to tell him to remain still or you'll blast his head in. He freezes, and surprisingly he's not a jerk-off who DC's on first sign of danger. He says "I'm just looking for morphine, my legs broke", and you realise the whole time he's been crawling about was from lack of functional legs. You decide to let him be, you'd rather not risk losing your hide to try and help, but you'd rather not get blasted in the back either. You head off after dumping a single morphine in his bag and notifying him, but without you knowing, he turned around, and he makes a mark on you, before healing himself. He's marked you as "Friendly" on name. Later on, you end up pulling a horde that was only 5, but found to be 20 by the end of it. "Stealther01" happens to pop up on your screen, and you figure you're boned now, but the zombies begin dropping as he fires, instead of you. He comes up, thanks you for the prior morphine in his bag, and heads on his way. You change his name to "Nice guy from Stary", and later on, if you ever meet again, you can recall he's not a jerk. Also, this works for the un-named. Say, from the prior story of the Cherno hoard-attracter, you find someone you HAVEN'T named, and you're face to face. You don't know this person, you have no way of telling their intentions, so you waste them. You or them, right? Or maybe you're off in the NWAF, and if you've been in a group, you probably know the times you screamed over some sort of third-party VoIP "IS THAT YOU?!", you don't see a name, it isn't one of your friends you already know. Suddenly, there's a way to make notes on the events, and the people in them, while not magically knowing their name. You make the nickname for them, and it leaves it up to more than just "I have to shoot everyone because I don't know who is who". Mechanics: So how does this handle in a game sense? Obviously as little on the servers if possible, so my idea is make it purely clientside. Your own computer memorizes the data based upon character ID's, and when it gets info on a character from the server, it compares it to it's own database. That way, it's as little data from the server as possible. Note: When I say "database", I mean in comparison like an SQL or .dat file which is located on your own drive, in your own Arma directory, that saves an ID and a name you put to that ID. Each time the indicator ingame gives you an ID handed by the server, your client will check if that ID is in the local client database. If it is, then it pulls the name itself, reducing as much as possible on any server stress. The question now is the cases of "what if's". "What if I die? Do I remember them? What if they die?", and this is really up to the playerbase, and more importantly, Rocket (if he decides this is worth a damn), how to do it. The first part is, if you die. Do you recall? Do you not? My vote is for no, you forget EVERYONE you formerly knew on your last character, because your new one should have no ties to your former. Of course, this is debatable, and I leave that up to you all to think through, and obviously you can easily re-find teamspeak/vent/mumble friends to re-mark them. Second, what if someone you remember dies? And this is where it gets a bit tricky. Yes, we have a lot of people who do die now, so if you name someone, only for later them to be shortly killed (and your memory of him/her wiped), it could prove useless over the long run. I think, that if you name someone, it should tie (for your end, clientside) to their Arma ID, and that you will remember whatever title you gave them, until you yourself die. A way to make notes of people, without it vanishing, especially if you end up killing THEM. You can see them come up later, and recall "oh, I had a former firefight with this guy because of , I don't want to be anywhere near him", or maybe you're just the type to shoot him again. For whatever reason. The only thing promoted by this is by surviving longer, especially from interactions with other people, or at the least by observing their behaviors. Exploits/Ways to Prevent Exploitation: "How does this fix the exploits?!" and it doesn't. The next part does: It's unusable unless you can clearly see the Head/Upper Body of the player. How that would be coded, I'm not sure, maybe by a pixel image check or something regarding the hitscan of the current identification mechanic. But, the major reason for it is this: You would have to clearly see the upper body or head, so that you can't just weave through trees or areas and see a name pop up. Not only do you have to name someone yourself with a name you chose first-most, you have to see them at least clearly enough to see that part of them, making it far harder to exploit. You see a pair of legs in a tree? No luck, you don't know who's legs those belong to, and suddenly you're tensed, only to ask your buddy over TS and find out that was him as he turns around. It has to revolve around the most notifiable parts of the human physique as with real life, which is the upper body structure, and importantly, the head/face of a person. This way, it's not a simple "tree-line scanner", which just pops up a name, or gives you an action to make a name without making sure you can actually SEE them, before allowing you to mark it. However, the above LoS/Check mechanic may be too hard to code, so what else? Maybe add in a distance you can mark? 500m? 600m? Maybe a low sadistic 300m or less? No idea, the numbers can be tweaked though. Anything to prevent it from being used to see someone when you SHOULDN'T be able to tell what you're looking at. Maybe even a "button spam preventer", where the action is always there, and if you spam it too much you can't use it for a long duration, so that it doesn't just come up when you see someone, and if you don't get a marker from randomly clicking a few times, you got to wait before abusing it. You got a better mechanic to prevent an exploit for it? Tell me! I'd love to hear how, it would make it a far more viable option. Addition 1, Hoik's Suggestion (edited by Hard): Before seeing a name of a player you've formerly marked, you must keep your vision focused (hitscan their model) on the individual for 5-10s. Helps prevent "scanning" or seeing them when you shouldn't. Possible backdraw - Won't know who you're aiming at if you end up face-to-face suddenly with someone, however if that happens, the custom player face may be a give-away. Addition 2, General Concensus (Distancer): You must be within a certain viable range to identify individuals (seems the thought is around 300m). May be extendable if using a scope or binoculars. Addition 3, Callaghan (No Extra Junk): As far as my memory goes, modding the Arma2 recognition and using it on servers should not add in any of the other settings people may dislike (3rd person, crosshairs, etc). However, it may be tied into Recruit mode, and those other server settings. If it is, the indicator should be hand-crafted to prevent it from becoming an issue/forcing in extra settings people may not want. Addition 4, Orosian (visibility factors): Factors, such as how bright it is ingame/current time of day (dawn, dusk, midday vs night), weather effects (fog, rain, etc), and distance affect how quickly you can recognize someone you've seen before (Utilizing the current visibility system already in-place for DayZ). The more factors that would degrade your vision/the lower the visibility of the person you're looking at, the longer it takes (+1/2s per factor/ -1 or 2 for each additional visibility bar on target) before you see the nickname you marked someone with. In Closing: So you find someone, and you can name them a nickname of your chosing (whatever you chose), so long as you yourself can clearly see them (or managed to click them without the lock-out prevention). This allows you to identify players, and to know of who might be who, who may be in a group (if you saw a pair/bunch together), who to avoid and who to trust, without some arbitrary identifier, and without meta-gaming it 24/7, while preventing exploitation. I hope it'll be a helpful tool, and some of the exploit prevention mechanics will prevent it from becoming a "tree-line scanner", but that's to be found out. TL: DR - You name a person a nickname you chose, if you can actually manage to see them, and from then on-out, it comes up so long as you can see them. Allows for identification, and to prevent exploitation, which the current identification mechanic can be exploited. Thoughts/Comments/Actual Constructive Criticism? Leave something below!

1.) Only acceptable if something can be done about the immensely dark'ish night. While I don't personally have an issue with it, there's a reason there's a dedicated sticky thread regarding how damn dark the night is. It needs an offset somehow if you remove the only way of seeing well for certain people. Also, as stated before, Flares are a natural enemy of NVG's, they make it IMPOSSIBLE to see anything with NVG's on. 2.) True, the sync is off at times, but this is more an issue for the server hosters themselves typically. A well run and operated server usually is synced quite effectively. 3.) No, Rocket has stated before this will BREAK how the game operates, as it utilizes this cycle (in ticks) to be able to tell when to spawn items, how long things have been left out/haven't been around, etc. Altering the cycle mucks up the code. 4.) I'm up for more bicycles, not sure on more vehicles. I am often running so I don't have a good opinion on this. 5.) There are discussions dedicated solely about this already, we know, their super-human pimp slap has gained a lot of notoriety. So has their odd spawning behaviors. However, no need to "tier" them, that's silly (imo). 6.) If you haven't played Arma 2 normally, I suggest you do so on Vet difficulty or something, you'll see that the NPC's have a nack at seeing you at insane distances and quite easily (500M+ out if you stand up, 300~M if crouched, will see despite any sort of cover/bushes), and they're quite the shooters. I prefer the only armed people are player controlled ones, that's my opinion. 7.) There's a reason they exist is my answer. 8.) Already topics about it, general consensus is it needs to go AFAIK. 9.) Also other threads regarding these, although if any "random events" are added I hope it doesn't involve gun-totting NPC's. Anything like the roaring of jet engines as an SA-80 or somesuch jets across overhead is fine, but it should be more atmospheric than otherwise (the Heli with the watchlight idea at night was brilliant, forgot which thread that was in). 10.) Pistols, I understand. Most, ignoring the M1911 and Rev. are 9mm, and such weapons IRL are not difficult to stabilize and quick-fire the trigger excessively. Yes, it'll be harder to account for, but it's possible. I say it's fine as is, if someone gets you with it, kudos to them for using a pistol. As for snipers, haven't experienced an issue with this sparing the DMR, most are single fire and take a bit, and if you have to hit at a farther range than 50m the recoil WILL make you have to re-aim yourself momentarily. 11.) Arma 2 issue, not sure if there is such a fix available. If it is, it should take some time to flip, not like a Halo "flip" where you press a button and the thing flings itself around. 12.) Wasn't aware of this, amusing. 13.) Drop is quite substaintial at certain ranges, sparing weapons that can zero in (M24/M107), but even then you got to account and figure out the range (unless it has the "rangefinder" built-in with certain regular servers. Removing that server option on most/if not all servers would help). 14.) I won't go into this, aside saying this is more of a community problem from people going up in arms about being killed, and turning around only to kill everyone from there-on out. The benefits are there, and they're greater than the items/beans you can pick up off the other person. 15.) Fine by me, keep the heli-hiders from dumping their damn loot far outside the map, unreachable to anyone without a vehicle. Perhaps not in the exact mechanic way you stated, but something of the sort, like a missile lock-on if in a vehicle, and just shot by snipers otherwise if you leave the border too long. Something unique to DayZ.

@Time Glitch, A respectable way to word it. Hopefully that can be something that people will consider at least. If a single post I make can convince a single person to be a little more weary to try interaction in this game, it was worth it to take the time to post. It's a community driven game after all. @OUberLord, glad we can agree, although what you mentioned with viciousness and self-serving due to anonymity is true. As they say "Give a man a mask, and he will tell you the truth". We all aim to work to our own ideals, but the benefits of working together are often subtle and missed. I could scower the NWAF alone, or with someone watching my back. It's just figuring out who ingame isn't a jerk that I can do that with which took time. @Rko, Undoubtedly.

@ Malek, That's true, we really, desperately need VoIP in a 100% working state. Although I tend to get it to work, I know it's right now giving certain people hell. Hopefully Bohemia can manage to squeeze out a final patch that will fix it. @R Lee, I assume your post was directed at mine, so I'll answer as such. I'm in the sun, all the damn day, working on a Shade Tobacco Farm in literal Courage the Cowardly Dog nowhere's-ville. I am sick of the sun, I just enjoy playing a game that has survivalistic aspects. If that makes me "take it too seriously", then fine, but that's like saying "Stop getting so scared in a horror game you idiot!". DayZ is a survivalist game after all, and so I try to enjoy it in a survivalist manner. Hope that's understandable. @Doxshund, Bandit skins will be removed on Thursday, although just try to avoid the "Bandit Hunters" without having to go nuts on other players.

@ Valhingen, you don't need to, just be weary when you see someone. If you want to make the right choice, I'd suggest myself (Although feel free to play the way you want) that you observe the person first. How does he interact with others? With the enviroment? Is he even someone you'd want to group up with? I've watched people and seen them backstab, shoot on sight, or generally run around and attract the entire city on them. These were the people I avoided. I then saw some who were a bit more cautious, who still shot others on sight, and avoided them. When I see someone who's however, cautious and doesn't just open fire on the get-go, I sometimes group up with them (I tend to stick alone or in my own personal group of friends), or I let them be. @ TKJ, glad you enjoyed it, also the P6 Mantra is something I picked up while watching a documentary on Army Snipers, so there's a reason it works damn well. @Redz, Thanks a lot, although I personally feel it's a bit common sense, as my friend says "Common Sense has become Uncommon Sense these days". @Ariel, couldn't agree more, the "Raise/Lower Weapon Toggle" is something that should be exercised a lot, as it is IRL with Weapon Safety (just as with Trigger Discipline). Don't point your weapon at another (I understand pistols are a bit more finnicky atm though). @Jorden, there is, and as Rocket has stated he doesn't want an artificial system in to promote it. We as the players have to decide ourselves how this pans out, so if we want it to end up other than a Deathmatch, we got to work to make it more than a deathmatch. Here's to making that happen. @LordOpeth, I lol'd.