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Really? I don't care what their motivations are, the effects are the same. So do I. Oh, there you go. Thank you. You just admitted to exactly what I've been railing against. End of story right here, folks. Again, your motivations are irrelevant. Well, I guess we've gotten to the crux of the issue then, haven't we? I think I see where the other side is coming from. To them this game is simple: collect loot and then kill people with it. Ok, fair enough, but IMO this game could (and should) be so much more. No, it doesn't. You just admitted to killing everything on sight in the North as well. It doesn't change; still the same shit. Not that I need your confirmation, as being a Northerner myself, I already know this all too well. Let me clarify, I don't think the in-game actions that either you or the Coastal PK'ers take are are retarded at all - ATM, it's in everybody's best interest to act the way they do. But, this playstyle is not some divinely pre-determined fact like a lot of guys are trying to make it out to be. No, ppl'st behaviour is simply a product of the current game mechanics and design. I don't blame the playas; I blame the game. Pin the blame? Of course, we're going to pin the blame and ask for changes if we feel that the game is straying from its original design goals. And we're going to be particularly vocal if we think that a few changes can get things back onto the original track. Nice try. "Man up," shriek the little boys. Truth is, it is you lot who are afraid to venture out of the comfort zone. C'mon, you're the guy who whines, "But, I don't want to deal with scary strangers". Man up, indeed. And, no, the guys on my side of the argument aren't complaining because we're getting killed reapetedly. Let's get that straight, OK. Ditto, and please don't try to blame this on idiots or noobs. Ok, in the end, I thank you for your contribution, as re-reading it made me realize where the heart of the disagreement lies.

You're not very good at this reading thing, are you? Try going back a handful of posts, smart guy.

OP, lots of us get what you're saying and agree with you. Ignore the haters. We had a long discussion last night in the "what happened to the server community" thread about this problem. I agree with others saying that the best and easiest solution to this bullshit would be to impose long post-death timeout periods before allowing respawns. Better yet, tie the lengths of the lockout periods directly to a character's humanity score - the more ppl you murder, the longer you get to sit out after being killed. Put that into the game and watch all these internet tough guys start tossing toys out of their prams and crying their delicious tears.

Holy hell. it's funny how any attempts at education on the internet are met with so much derision and sarcasm. If some of you just kept your mouths shut sometimes, you might occasionally learn something. TIL about moon clips, for instance. Edit: Also, if "magazine" is too long for you, just say "mag".

A humanity solution first suggested by others that I have expanded upon here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7740&pid=75314#pid75314 This could not only alleviate the current DM/TDM problem, but, more importantly, I think it would make the game a lot more interesting and fun.

Yeah, me too. The more I think on this one, the more I like it. We really ought to try this out. Like you say, it may be a game-y mechanic but so are respawns. Lock people out for, say, 2 hours for every murder they commit and I think we'll see some real interesting behaviours develop. And, yes, I do mean murders, not killing. In other words, bandit kills still don't count against you. Consider that we can no longer auto-identify bandits by their skins, and you'll realize that taking a life now becomes a serious decision. After all, you'll never be certain whether shooting someone you don't know will cost you respawn time or not. We'd see a lot more stalking, observation, communication and just general sizing up between players. Also, imagine what happens when you run with a pack. Suddenly there is even less incentive to open fire at everybody you come across. Are you sure you want kill that dude, when you know that afterwards your "buddies" might very well shoot you in the back gambling that you just commited a murder and that now killing you in turn won't incur a respawn penalty? Pure awesome. Of course, clan buddies can still agree "we're all bandits here, we don't shoot one another", but you know how the saying goes about honour among thieves. Are you going to tell me that some griefer clan dudes aren't going to give into the temptation to pop one another when they KNOW that shooting cousin Billy Bob who's racked up 100+ murders will provide endless streams of sweet, sweet rage-filled tears. More grief and lulz can be had through one such act of betrayal than a thousand newbie kills. My God, just think of all the delicious paranoia and possibilities. A final note, if this was to be implemented perhaps it would be best if people were given a humanity reset upon death? Otherwise this systen would probably get too onerous. Either way, we could also use more mechanics whereby we gain back humanity by helping others out. And, I'm thinking maybe these mechanics should scale in such a way that a few murders can be undone by good deeds, but the further one sinks into homicide and depravity, the exponentially smaller the possibility of recovering one's humanity? Actually, I will continue this brainstorm in future posts, but this should be enough to get some creative juices flowing and generate further discussion. Any thoughts?

Have you ever been reminded to take out the trash' date=' constantly, even though you knew it had to be done, yet they wouldn't shut up until it's done? That'd be Rocket's situation right now. The problem is obvious, but the fixes need more thought. [/quote'] Not even close. The initial conversation went something like: "Rocket, the trash is starting to stink. Can you please take it out some time?" "No. Cry some more, fuckers." I don't recall reading that he even acknowledged the problem. In fact, he wrote something along the lines of, "This game don't need no stinking balance, and everybody will be allowed to play however the fuck they want." I call complete and utter horseshit. To think that this game, or any game for that matter, doesn't need balance demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of game design. You guys who keep babbling on about "no balance" and "player freedom" fail to realize that this game is in fact curently balanced to hell and back. Yeah, that's right: dayZ is balanced. Balanced around PK'ing. And, it's this balance that is limiting player freedom because now we all have to run around and PK. Cos, y'know, everybody's got to evolve in order to survive, right?

Yes, we're not sitting here asking anybody to make this game easier. Get that out of your thick skulls, people. What I think we're asking for is a richer, more faceted experience where running into another survivor means you never quite know what's going to happen. What I think a lot of us are really trying to say is that a game where running into a fellow player always equates to a shootout is much less interesting than one where many things can and do happen. We don't want to remove the shootouts or the danger, but we would like to play the latter game - a game about choices. And now we're brainstorming about how we can make that happen. I think that's the gist of what we're trying to discuss here. A critique and a discussion where we try to hash out what's bothering us about the current state of the game and how we'd like to fix it is not whining or bitching. Although I do admit that it pisses me of that even rocket so readily dismisses our concerns.

If you think I'm crying, then you better think again. I'm sneakier, more patient and a better shot than the vast majority of you mofos. I'm an ARMA player, so trust me when I say that I am more than capable of playing in your "cru3l, brut4l and l33t world". People like me are just pointing out that a vital part - hell, if I recall it was theoretically the initial concept of the game - is getting drowned out by all the KoS ROEs everybody has instituted of late.

Just to clarify, I actually have no problem with the shoot-man-with-gun crowd, per se. As long as they are acting within the rules, anybody should be allowed to play the game any damn way they please. And, this isn't even a traditional "balance" problem, either. Yes, a few more mechanics along the lines of the blood transfusions which incentivize some level of co-operation would be very helpful. But, no, I think the crux of the problem lies in the player-to-player interactivity. Although technically not possible, my ideal solution would be: A) Direct VOIP Communication Only B) No 3rd Party VOIP or Comms Allowed Why? What would the effect on gameplay be? Well, considering everybody spawns all over the place, you couldn't just hop into servers and team up with your friends or clan members from the start. Now, consider that even without any additional game mechanics to encourage teamwork, it still is a major advantage for people to group together and run in packs. But, since now people are going to have a much harder time meeting up with their buddies from outside the game, they'd be forced to - wait for it - make new friends. *GASP* I know, a scary and dangerous concept. And a fun and realistic one which would lead to all kinds of crazy situations. Now, that's my idea of a social experiment. Of course, the immediate problem this creates is that guys can still agree beforehand: "OK, everyone, we'll all meet at the church in Cherno. Avoid all contact until then." But, I think you'll find in practice such a system wouldn't play out in the clean, precise manner one might expect. In any case, it's just a daydream, since rule B is completely unenforceable

I said it once alread, but I'll say it again. This game is supposed to be about interactions between survivors. If every in-game encounter ends with guys just shooting each other - pretty much the point we're at now - then there are no longer any social dynamics. And, no social dyamics means we've defeated the entire original premise of this whole experiment. Also, the argument that we should all just get our clan buddies together on 3rd party VOIP is ridiculous. It only further erodes social interactions between strangers within the game. How is any of this so hard to understand?!

Here lies your problem: The original appeal of this mod lay in the social interactions between strangers in the midst of an apocalypse. It was the myriad of uncertainties that evolved from running into other unknown survivors that made things exciting. Reducing things down to ppl getting together with friends from outside the game and then killing everybody they run into is-game is a massive step backwards. That the creator himself encourages this kind of dynamic blows my mind.

I only skimmed this thread, but if the question is would we be willing to pay for DayZ and how much, then maybe we should start a poll? Just for the record, I'm more than happy to pay full retail for a standalone game. Honestly, I'd go with whatever scheme would grant rocket the greatest creative freedom.

Yes, of course. Completely agree. I was mostly pointing out that its lame on BIS' part to include a bazillion different prostitue skins, but not bother putting any work into making a female model that can actually hold a gun (or drive). I just got a little sidetracked at the end of my last post, that's all. Heh.

Just stopping in to add my support for the concept of female characters in Day Z. Honestly, it's about damn time we had some proper female combat-capable models in the ARMA series. Thank you, rocket. Remember kids, women are more than willing to die for their country too. I've always found BIS' attitude of "no girl soldiers" quite insulting, doubly so considering all the painstaking effort they put into creating all those damn hooker models. Yes, danm, lovely hooker models. Sweet, sweet hooker models... excuse me while I fire up the editor: Also, can we have zombie hookers, plz?

I'm a huge ARMA fan and yet I completely agree with the OP. Shocking, isn't it?

Happened here as well. People were reporting it as being a problem for everybody on that server .