dutch_miller

Recently, almost every thread I've read has said the same thing: We need to increase the value of the player's life. We need to make people care about their character. Their logic is that it will stop KoS'ing. It won't. What everybody fails to realize is that the value of a player's life is one of the major reasons for KoS. The average player is a bandit simply because they kill whoever they see. Why? It's a few reasons, but one of the most prominent is that they don't want to die and lose their gear. And in DayZ, your gear is your life. Making them value that gear even more than they already do is going to do a few things: 1. Make people more careful. Seemingly a good thing, at first. It will make people cautious, and it will likely reduce the amount of possible player interactions; but that isn't the problem. 2. Make people on edge. This is the problem. People are going to be constantly afraid of dying and losing their gear. Since every player is a potential threat, players are then afraid of other players. When that happens, people are going to shoot first because they don't want to die. If they kill everyone they see, they eliminate every threat. It's smart, it's the best way to go if you want to live; the mod proves this. The best way to live, and save your gear, is to kill every threat. KoS will be stopped through a combination of ways. There is no one simple fix. But it boils down, in its simplest form, is that you have to make people WANT to not kill everyone you see. Don't punish them if they do, don't make them afraid of players. Give them a reason to work together.

This is one of those threads that has been created so many times, I just hoped I'd never see one again. I was wrong. To be fair, I've never seen someone complain about bumping an old thread.

Actually a very interesting idea; something I don't often say. I've never thought of that, but I like it.

http://tmwdayz.com/showthread.php?tid=710

Everybody is so caught up in what DayZ is. In the end, it's a game. You can't ever get past that fact. It's really not this super special, better-than-everything-else ultimate sandbox everyone believes it is. And like all other games, it needs to be balanced; it needs variety. Maybe the mod was different. Rocket even said himself it was an experiment. It did a very good job at that. Now that it's a game, now that people are paying money specifically for it, it needs the other elements of games. The completely free and do whatever the fuck you want sandbox is a better idea than it is a game. Nobody really decides what DayZ "is" besides Rocket and the development team. Whatever you want to say about the community input is a more or less moot point. It is what they make it, and however much you want to fight what it should be instead is irrelevant. But for what it's worth, the mod's complete realistic sandbox freedom could be altered and I wouldn't care. I don't care how much people get upset about how there are incentives and advantages of different playstyles. They were always there, and everybody knows it. Now, the field of play would be much more even, much more balanced, much more fun. And isn't that what DayZ really is? Fun?

Already being added in SA

Exactly. Banditry is by far the dominant playstyle currently, and that's "the problem". I want a more varied and balanced experience in the game.

It's not you. It's not the dedicated bandits that I care about. It's the average player that doesn't necessarily want to be a bandit, but it forced by nature of the game into being one.

I feel like that is almost the reverse of the approach I would take. Instead of making killing players not worth it, make working with them worth it enough not to kill them.

Wow, you're the first one I've ever seen post a fishing idea! Well done sir! /sarcasm

No... for several reasons. 1. The nature of online gaming is the more you give the ability to piss people off, the more people will do it. 2. What about people who can't spend every day of the week playing? People who can only play a few nights a day? I'd never play the game if I get to my wednesday night where I can finally play for a few hours, I sit down, and get shot 10 or 20 minutes later. People don't understand this concept. Just because you increase the value of a player life DOES NOT mean it will reduce KoS. People will be more cautious, yes, but they will also be more on edge and ready to shoot whatever they see because they don't want to die. Maybe you won't see people as often because everyone is careful, but that dosen't solve the problem.

There's always a chance that you will be killed while trying to kill someone, and there will be the same chance if gear is more scarce. However, I do support weapon and ammo scarcity; I consider that in a slightly different manner than just gear. Making weapons difficult to find will definitely reduce KoS, but regular gear like food and clothing will increase it.

While I agree that shooting should have more serious consequences, giving players more value to their life would not solve the problem. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. The average player KoS's for a few reasons, one of them being fear of losing their stuff. They already value what they have, and making them value it more will cause them to be even more triggy happy when they see someone. I fail to see how one player shooting at someone shows a lack of respect for their own life. It shows a lack of respect for the other player's life. Blocking a player from a server after being killed is stupid at best. It will easily make 50-75% of people who might have played the game quit. It will completely ruin any ability to learn how to play the game unless you've played the mod. Not only that, it will make dedicated bandits more common because anonymous internet nature is to make people angry for fun.

I have written a lot of ideas on this topic for essentially since I signed up the forums (about a year ago). Here's the conclusion I've come to: KoS boils down to a few basic problems, some of which you also identified: 1. Weapons, especially high powered, are easy to acquire 2. There is very little to challenge survival outside of PvP 3. Boredom 4. A lack of reason to work together My solutions are this: Obviously, reduce the amount of weapons, definitely sniper rifles, in the game. Several additions to make survival difficult while on your own. -Have a more severe weight restriction - the heavier you are, the slower you are, and the more medical issues you develop. - This will limit your ability to carry vital equipment, offering an incentive to share and trade with others for what you need at the time you meet them. - More in depth medical system which requires a large variety of equipment, something the DayZ team is already working on. Boredom - this is a tricky one. My solution is one that alot of people won't like, but I think would be a huge help. There needs to be more big, server-wide goals in DayZ. Goals that require a massive amount of effort and time, as well as dozens of players working together, to complete. Goals like bringing power plants back online, creating cures/treatments, restoring a hospital to create medical supplies, any number or combination of things would work. They have to be rewarding, offering a very good reason to make a server full of people want to contribute. Finally, the most important one, is making people want to work together. That's how you'll beat the problem, is by making people WANT to work together. Punishing them for not won't work, trying to force them won't work; there has to be a reason the average player won't want to shoot whoever they see, and instead work with them. You have to offer incentives that encourage co-operative play. The medical system will help, and so will increasing the difficulty of surviving. But there needs to be a better trading mechanism, that is simple and easy to use. Here's my final point - you have to make a reason to work together to stop people from KoS'ing. You have to make them want to not pull the trigger on whoever they see, instead of punishing them if they do. '

Oh boy, this old gem. I thought I'd seen enough "camo netting" threads. Yes it was a great idea the first time it was suggested, and the second, and even the third...and now that we're on number 300 it's becoming less and less appealing.

And to the graveyard it goes..!

I think that's the exact opposite of what would happen. Why would people KoS because gear can be found easily? For a dedicated bandit, that makes sense: it's very easy to acquire a weapon. But for the average player, they often kill for the other player's gear; implying that they want it, which implies that the gear isn't as plentiful as it seems. Now if we were to increase the scarcity, that mentality would only persist and increase. Since gear is difficult to obtain, players would theoretically be more likely to KoS because they likely want it and don't have it. Essentially my point is, the more rare gear is, the more people want it, and the more they will kill to get it.

They will never implement a punishment for player killing. It is, and always will be, a viable playstyle of the game; and it should be. Instead of punishing for killing, you have to offer incentives to not kill someone. I think the skills should be completely combat-free. As in, no skill should directly affect a player's PvP ability; they should be limited to survival skills.

You're completely right, except that a majority of the time you will end up losing both your gear and skills at the same time - and in that sense, they are all part of your player "life".

Oh dear. DId you read my first post? "I'm not talking about the dedicated bandit, nothing will ever prevent them from playing the way they do and they should be allowed to do so. "

But to think banditry won't be a problem unless they do something that specifically addresses it? That's a stretch I'm not convinced of just yet. Read my original post. I'm not trying to change the hardcore bandit, I'm trying to change the average player, who at this point, happens to be a bandit.

You are one wishful thinker. And yet, in DayZ, your gear is your life.

Here's the thing, that's already somewhat implemented in that you can lower your weapon. It's not quite as definitive as what you're suggesting, but it has done absolutely nothing to stop it. It's not about introducing a mechanic that allows you not to kill someone, that's already in the game; it's as easy as not clicking the mouse button. Instead, it's about making the player want to not click the mouse button. There has to be something that adjusts the player's mindset, not their controls.

Here's why I don't like this. Not because I get all butthurt if the game has any form of an RPG element. I don't like it because it will not fix what I see as the core issue of the game, which is KoS. It will actually contribute to the problem. I'm not talking about the dedicated bandit, nothing will ever prevent them from playing the way they do and they should be allowed to do so. I'm talking about the average player, who at this point in the game, shoots on sight (and doesn't have a sniper rifle). Not necessarily because they want to be a bandit, but because they don't want to die or want the other players items; and it's usually the former in a situation where they stumble up on someone in close quarters. This means that they already value their character for what items they have, and the time spent getting them. Making them value their characters more, and in turn making them more afraid to die, will only cause them to be more likely to shoot. Secondly, a large portion of bandits simply do it because they are bored and have nothing else to do in the game. I myself have done this at times. Making those players value their characters more will not change anything. The solution comes in three ways: First - Making powerful military weapons, especially snipers, difficult to obtain, making dedicated banditry much more difficult. Second - Making incentives to work together with strangers. There needs to be a reason you should work together with someone you just met. It could be skills (which, contrary to what this post has said earlier, I am not entirely against. I just think they have to be very careful in how they implement, or it could cause some major problems), it could be medicines, and, if there is a time when a better item trading mechanism is implemented, it could be items. It could be all of those, or it could be something completely different. But there needs to be something, and it needs to be important to the average player; enough that they hesitate on shooting whoever they see. Third - A lot of people won't like this, but I think there needs to be a bigger goals in DayZ. Co-operative efforts that requires dozens of players working together for something. Maybe a cure, maybe something else. It has to be big, it has to take a long time, and it needs to be rewarding. It doesn't need to end the game, and it shouldn't, but it should give rewards. It could be repairing power plants to restore power to Chernarus allowing X amount of new things to do. Then after that maybe it's activating a radio tower that you can call and will introduce some reward gear into the game. Whatever it is, it needs to make people WANT to work together. That's how you'll solve this problem. You have to make players want to work together. Don't punish them if they don't, don't force them if they won't.