Strategos (DayZ)

lol nice job :)

"If the developers changed it to random map spawns I would probably leave the game. It would make it too much like a cod type fps and less like a survivor type game." Amazing post! I love the gibberish some people come out with. I wonder if full map spawns would lead to players suiciding until they appeared where they wanted ? That already happens , but would happen more to get closer to barracks I think. I wonder if the map was a full island the shore thing would be better. Saying that I quite like it, noobs on the shore will not have guns soon and having them close to each other may encourage some interaction before they can kill each other.

Someone made an excellent thread of all the stuff that had been suggested and a bunch of stuff that had been suggested and rejected, but it got lost to the forum hack I think. There was also an excellent thread of "things rocket had said" which cleared up alot of stuff. Shame we lost those resources to some hacking idiots.

Well there's a few reasons that I can see. 1: The game is harsh. But it only becomes frustrating when you have reached "endgame" stage and are trying to achieve something. 2: Some people seem to need end game goals, and when they get there surviving in itself is no longer a challenge. If you wanted to you could sit in the wilderness and live off the land and never see a zombie. 3: The end game is the least scary part of the game in alot of ways. You are tooled up, got a bunch of mates. All chatting on TS, it is less Dayz at this stage. 4: You are no longer AS mortal. When you die you mates grab your stuff, drive or fly to pick you up, you can be back exactly where you were , same gear , same mates etc within 10 minutes. This does not sound like perma death to me. You might as well have not died at all. So dying is not something you fear as much, again , not very Dayz. 5: You stick with your mates and just kill everyone you see. People have nothing to offer you but threat as you have all the stuff you want. And they probably would like to get it off you. So interaction is even less of a driving force. Don't get me wrong i'm sure some people do some really interesting things in end game. But people with the imagination and creativity to do that aren't the sort of people that will reject radical game play mechanics they are probably the people that would embrace them. There is a bit of a dichotomy in the game design at this point, if you are making a game where you want people to team up and build forts and safe zones why have perma death ? Because those people will just come right back and carry on where they left off, all perma death does in this scenario is frustrate people. in fact its no even perma death as they prercieve their character as continuing where it left off as well.

"1) Day/Nighttime conundrum. Yes night is a very different factor in the game and makes it much scarier, but ONLY being able to experience the game at night isn't that great either, so i can understand people hopping on time-shift servers to enjoy some virtual rays of light. Its not always "breaking (non-existant) rules". I never said you should only play at night . I would suggest something like ... perhaps people could choose their time and be locked to servers that roughly match that time. So they could pick the time they mainly play to be their preferable time of day. But I was trying to steer clear of suggestions in this thread its too easy to get bogged down in the details of specific suggestions. "2) The best thing about this mod is that it has no defined end game, the only endgame that remains is player interaction. Maybe the endgame needs more functionality or structure, but there shouldn't be any new content or goals to achieve. Players are smart and will figure out for themselves what they want to make of it." I also never mentioned anything about changing the end game, I was just highlighting that the end game is the worst part in some ways. The best part is the journey there, the act of just surviving. What i'm really talking about is the whole approach people have to the game. And trying to get them to open their minds a bit to the possibilities, and think about the reasons the game is so exciting. edit: And yeah Virfortis its hard to keep track of the night-time darkness, i just logged in with newest beta and it was complete black except fo the sky, but with a chem light i still managed to loot a crashed heli and avoid all the zs without drawing agro... Im not so much fussed about how dark it is, more that everyone is be experiencing the same thing and that everyone at least plays a bit at night. But again its not the details more the concepts.

Well said Indio ;) Now is the time for discussion, Thinking and Trying new ideas.

There are lots of problems and lots of potential solutions :) With regards to the "hardcore server" options this is sort of my point. I don't think this is the right path. I think the game should be the game. If you give people choices many will always take the line of least resistance. I have friends that sit with us on mumble but will ONLY play on day time servers. So they accept 100+ pings on a different server to their other mates rather than play at night. Maybe if the game made people leave their safety blankets behind and everyone had to play by the same rules the game might be better for it, for everyone. And people really need to think about it rather than just having a knee jerk , "fuck you don't tell me what to do" reaction.

Might help solve the problem with people avoiding night completely. My solution was to make players choose a timezone for their character. http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10905

Well said Oktyabr.

This has been suggested about one zillion times, Use the SEARCH function. Also Rocket said it wont go in the game because countries like Australia would ban it.

"But you're right on some aspects, but it's hard to 'force' people in the way 'games are meant to be played by the developers for the ultimate experience', since this would be a rule, and everyone tends to bend rules. It's a human thing, you can't get it out of them." I agree , it's one of the reasons I've avoided suggestions and solutions. Im not trying to say the game SHOULD be this way. Or you HAVE to do this. I'm just trying to get some thinking going about what makes Dayz good, and possibly what could make it even better. I think it's interesting that the things that people like about dayz are things they would HATE in any other game. Yet people refuse to think about changing certain other aspects of the game. It took Rocket making a bunch of extreme rules for people to try it and see that they liked it. Is it such a leap that maybe some other unpalatable sounding mechanics might in the end be even more enjoyable ?

Really ? I cant honestly believe that :) Maybe it distracts you and makes it harder, but it certainly doesn't add to the survival horror atmosphere of the game. And it certainly doesn't make you feel alone :)

Thanks, its not so much about agreeing or disagreeing, more food for thought. Though id be interested to hear why you disagree.

I keep trying to be purely friendly as a social experiment. generally that ends in death or betrayal that ends in death about 60% of the time. Obviously if you are playing properly , ie you mind dying these odds are so bad that you HAVE to shoot everyone to survive. This is the root of the KOS problem. This game though i encountered 4 people ,one in balotta and three in Cherno and they were ALL friendly after I hailed them stating my intentions . Pretty miraculous. Maybe there is hope ?

I don't want to derail this thread with debating about someone's crap arguments but your talking out of your arse Sakinoto. You had a rant good on you , but don't try and back peddle on it when you get brought up about the stuff you saying. You clearly made a bunch of sweeping generalisations about various issues without any evidence.. Which African tribes are you talking about , where have you got your 100 / 1000 years figure from? Are you suggesting 100 years is long enough for mental survival traits to be evolved out of a human gene pool ? Or are you trying to make a nature vs nurture debate? That in some way just because someone has lived a life of luxury it makes them less mentally strong ? My point is that when the cards are down people are amazingly tough and there is ample evidence to support this throughout history, involving people from societies and all walks of life. There are also plenty of people who get depression and other mental illnesses BECAUSE of society. People who live in the lap of luxury with everything you we all (are supposed to) want , money, power, friends etc who end up in rehab or institutions. Society itself breaks some people. You can garuntee there is a percentage of people that the more extreme life turned out the more they would thrive. So in closing if we cant predict how people will react (and I think we can agree on that) , therefore you cant put in a system that tells you how you are reacting without breaking peoples immersion. (the current system involves food, blood, water, temperature. these are universal and physical and effect everyone more or less the same way. You could also add fatigue in the same way)

Good luck stopping people being dicks.

Night time is great, it adds loads more to the game, having to use light sources is a great mechanic that radically alters the dynamic. Add to that being able to creep around with much less chance of getting sniped. I really enjoy the trade off between reduced vis and and having to use a light source and expose yourself. Flares aren't a stupid work around they are the mechanics of the game lol Here's my solution: Force people to play at least some of the time at night. http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10905

All that would give them is a place to test hacks before coming to grief. Why don't people think out their suggestions ?

I don't have a problem per se with using TS, I do it when I play Dayz myself. Im not saying it ruins the game for me or that I feel like its cheating. What i'm saying is that the game might be better for YOU if you played it just using direct chat and let go of preconceptions and habits of your current multi-player gaming. And if everyone did it (or had to do it in some way) the game might be even better again. Yeah I like to chat shit with my mates, kills the time running between deerstands etc. But it does remove alot the immersion and tension from the gaming experience. And Rocket has said time and time again that its all about evoking responses in people, and that's why people love Dayz , the amazing gaming experiences it creates. There's tonnes of games that are great to play with you mates and that side of social gaming is well established. Team play, hilarious shit, BF3 is one I play myself and its a great laugh. Maybe there is room for another kind of experience that might just be better if you stepped out of the comfort blanket of playing with the same people and doing the same shit just in a new game. And there is no reason you cant hook up with you mates and chat on direct chat anyway. There is just another level of tactics required to get operations to work using that.

Your probably right Amentes, im still really interested in the effect it would have on the game. As I said before one of my best ever gaming experiences came from Dayz and direct chat. Its a shame people dismiss the possibilities out of hand.

Well said PUGS.

I love the crap people come out with in their outrage lol. "People Metagame all the time, do you guys even know the rules to proper roleplay?" Metagaming isn't proper role play. Even if we were talking about role-playing specifically here which we arn't. "so what you are saying is that: because i have friends, and you apparently don't, I am not allowed to play with them?.... cry some more!" No that's not what I personally am saying. But you clearly don't want to actually think about it. "Is this kid on drugs? I bet he got rolled by a group of people working as a team. funny how all the loners cry when left out." *sigh* You are exactly the people that would be up in arms if someone suggested adding Perma Death to this game if it wasn't in it. But as it happens its that extreme part of the game that makes it so enjoyable that has actually drawn you to the game. Why not consider the thought that some other features that on the surface may seem unpalatable might actually improve your game experience? People play single player games on their own because those games offer something multiplayer games cannot as effectively. Story and narrative. Maybe you can consider the possibility that this game might provide something other multiplayer games dont ? By just steamrollering in with your same bunch of mates and doing the same shit you do in other games perhaps your not getting all that you could be from Dayz.

Yeah wait till its implemented properly because the zombie mechanics are going to be drastically different. Its a test of sorts now, but its not a real test yet. I think this is going to be good. My other test im doing is being exclusively friendly and seeing the results. Died 7/10 tries. but my latest try have met 4 / 4 friendly people in balotta and cherno. good start :)

"It's not worth giving up our only way of defense for." Not worth giving up our only defense ? Your not giving it up it's being taken away lol The stuff you start with was given to you as a design decision and now its being removed. I personally think we should lose the backpack as well. How else do you develop emotional ties other than spending time with someone and talking to them. Having no guns facilitates that in quite an elegant way. What are you planning on using that makarov for anyway ? Attracting some more zeds? Killing that guy that sniped you from half a mile away ? If your not sneaking past Z's when u just have your starting gun your doing something wrong! And now you can lose them by running away from them. The only other thing you can use it for is killing other players.

Wheres my flame thrower....