Strategos (DayZ)

Aignor your arguments are terrible. Jdz, I've seen another big thread like this one spring up. But ultimately I think Leo may be right. I'm still in two minds over the whole thing myself.

This sort of thing has been discussed at length in other threads. Its still one of my least favourite ideas this time around.

No Dayz is what it is because everyone is bundled in together. This is never going to happen. I even believe I read somewhere Rocket said this is a no no. If I find the quote Ill post it.

" I dont know about sexual anxiety meter, but perhaps some kind of loneliness meter that effects your sanity?" Horrible idea as discussed in the thread dedicated to it elsewhere on this forum.

Any chance we could craft makarov ammo into Bizon ammo, Wiki suggests they take the same rounds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-19_Bizon#Accessories Or am I wrong ?

Damn good point Parab

OMFG WTF YOUR FUCKING RETARDED"! lol sorry i dont know what came over me then , the fucktardery must be catching. But seriously , the hatchets do seem a little big ? BUT they are an effective weapon..... unlimited ammo, and if you control a doorway, the Z's just queue up and die....

I think id like to see only crawling / crouching zombies breaking your legs but not knock you out. And vise versa for the standing ones.

Amazing! Can I have your stuff ?

I am LOVING the zombies in the new patch! You can lose them but its hard, then they come looking for you, find you again. Or stand at the doorway looking around trapping you. Its a real challenge now. Excellent stuff Rocket, superlative.

One of the debates in another thread has crystallised my thoughts on what could be a fundamental problem in Dayz. The game is at complete odds with itself. It's essentially two different games. And I think this is where the friction on this forum is rooted. On one had you have a survival game, you start alone and vulnerable, full of fear , uncertainty. You die often but then finally break through that barrier and escape into the wilds. If you are lucky or skill full you survive. If you die , it s anew start , a new beginning. It can be incredibly immersive, stressful, frustrating, rewarding. Either way it's an emotional experience. On the other hand you have a clan, you are on TS, you have a camp, you are tooled up. If you die your mates pick you up in a car give you your gear back and welcome you with open arms, not as a new survivor but as their friend reincarnated. this game is fun, its a great laugh. Other people you encounter though are a threat nothing more and are dealt with harshly. These seem to me to be two different games. The game mechanics punish both of these play styles with one hand and reward them with the other. The direction of the game is torn between the two. The forum highlights these differences, you have people calling for teamplay: factions, trading, spawn on friends, safe zones. And on the other side those clamouring for it to be more hardcore and less friendly. Is there a way to reconcile the differences inherent in the game and make everyone happy ? Or should Dayz focus on one side of this divide ?

Not at all Yamm. I love the sanbox. I just wonder if the game as it stands is pushing people in different directions in a negative way. Perma death + long term goals. Its a a strange combination don't you think ? The harder the game gets the more it punishes people trying to achieve long term goals. Those people also no longer see themselves as a new survivor, but the same one reincarnated. The harder it gets the more the players that enjoy "just" surviving thrive. I myself have found it really frustrating on occasions trying to organise a group of players. And also found it a relief when I've died, freed of all my possessions starting again I found the initial part of the game more rewarding. But find myself once again trying to build up permanent bases. There are inherent contradictions here and I just wonder if Dayz should lean one way or the other and make a game that does what it does better ? Rather than trying to do everything ?

Or just wait for the STALKER MMO that is in production ? http://www.computerandvideogames.com/345302/ex-stalker-devs-mmo-fps-gets-first-details-image/

Ok wow you really have to keep things simple here dont you. I said: "Luckily Rocket doesn't subscribe to this I don't think. hence his description of Dayz as an Anti_Game." in reply to: "#1 priority in the gaming industry is keeping people playing the game you create. " You stated "He must subscribe to this, because if you don't keep people playing you don't have the game any more" And I posted a bloody great paragraph in bold type: "If you're fed up, frustrated, maybe even angry then I've done my job. I don't want money, fame, power from it. I've achieved precisely the effect I wanted even if you never play the game again" Is that succinct enough for you?

Hehe phew, maybe I should rewrite the original post :) Don't get me wrong I love the stress that losing everything provides, and on the flip side I really love trying to build camps with my "clan" mates. I just wonder if Dayz is tearing itself apart because of the split in the community the main drives in the game creates. This forum aint a happy place these days! I guess I wanted to look at the underlying drives within the game, you see so many arguments about specific details , specific features that always seem to be at odds with each other.

Your missing the point. "This post, in my opinion, is absolutely incorrect. Those aren't the goals of THE game. Those are the goals of YOUR game," Those are goals that have been put in the game. You dont have to do them but the fact is that they are there for us to do. Repair a helicopter, place tents, save vehicles where you have made your camp. Those are game mechanics that allow you to do something. Therefore X percentage of players are going to want to do that. Some wont as you say but that's not the point. You have perma death, but a tent allows you to store your goods for two days after you die. Your saved vehicle will be there waiting for you full of equipment after you die and come back. So the game mechanics encourage activities that take place over more than one life. At complete odds with the single life / perma death mechanic. I'm not trying to get you to do anything or project my desires , I'm discussing what i see as a contradiction inherent in the games mechanics. There's no point in Quoting ZedsDead either as usual he is way off the mark.

Its a god idea, its been suggested a few times before. Ive got it in my list below. My version addresses Goblins concern nicely. 15: Non lethal weapons. Something to incapacitate people and rob them without killing them. Tranq darts etc would be nice. One shot = slower movement blurry vision etc. Two shots = slow down until you pass out. The gun could be a slow loading one shot weapon so there is no one hit kill mechanic introduced with these weapons. Edit: similar to Integer above i see.

"(Today 01:36 PM)Strategos Wrote: you are given tasks that require more than one life to achieve what on earth are you talking about" Ok let me expand on that. You have the ability to team, up make camps and horde vehicles. So you can make a permanent base and team up with people and engage in creative tasks that will probably require multiple deaths + groups of people to achieve. The game is encouraging team play and persistence via its mechanics on one hand. But giving you perma death etc on the other hand.

Lol can always rely on you Zed. "It must be so frustrating for you to look at every blank piece of paper and not already know what's going to be written on it some day. Stay away from stationary or art supply stores; you're liable to stroke." However to try and make your analogy make sense, if a blank piece of paper had two opposing ideas written on it. You could discuss them and decide if one was better, or if you could reconcile the two.

I agree.

Sandy im not suggesting anything different. What im saying is that the core of Dayz is a conflicted creature. You are a survivor with one life and you lose it all when you die. But you are given tasks that require more than one life to achieve. You only have one life but you are given tents to store you gear in to collect it after you die. The game design specifically disables global chat but has people using teamspeak to magically communicate. It seems like in some ways Dayz doesn't know what it wants to be?

Ill just grab a few choice quotes from Rocket here: "DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with." "Your actions have real and brutal consequences. There are no game designed safety nets." "It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. " "This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that" "Why make something that has already been done?" "This isn't really a game. Maybe a real game, from a studio, will come from the concept. For me, this is art. My intention was to generate real human emotions: high on the list was frustration, being pissed off, and a general distaste for some elements of society and what happens when the shit really goes down. If you're fed up, frustrated, maybe even angry then I've done my job. I don't want money, fame, power from it. I've achieved precisely the effect I wanted even if you never play the game again, and hopefully made people think about a few things along the way."

"And even for teams; dying in DayZ is a hard punishment. Many players in a team will get attached to their character, even if they get their equipment back. They also have to run 1 hour straight north, possibly more with the latest patch (no weapons at start etc.)." This isn't the crux of the debate but we just go and pick them up in a car, takes 10 minutes. What I'm really talking about is the whole dynamic of the game. Of course its a sandbox and of course everyone plays differently. That's great. I'm just pointing out that the game tears us in two different directions. And in it's own ways it punishes both of those directions with it's mechanics. Maybe you are right that never the twain shall meet. and they don't affect each other but that doesn't change the fact that there are two (roughly speaking) different things going on here. To make the game better for either of these groups means possibly detracting from the enjoyment of the others ? So how do you make the right design decisions in the future ? Look at the forum posts if you don't believe there are rifts in the game design! Look how it has torn the community!

Well its a possibility! I wonder if that would happen :) Only one way to find out ;) I personally think the number of servers and the huge number of players - and the wide distribution of spawn points would make this impossible. "#1 priority in the gaming industry is keeping people playing the game you create. " Luckily Rocket doesn't subscribe to this I don't think. hence his description of Dayz as an Anti_Game.

I was just discussing this idea and it dawned on me that , if people are restricted by resources, all they need to do is server hop get what they want and come back.