Chameleon (DayZ)

Well, I must come back on here and say I already discovered what OUR particular issue was... Basically, since I had signed into my wife's pc (the better of the two), and logged into my steam account and was playing all weekend that way, I believe my cd key was still being used when she tried to join a server, as she had not run Arm 2 OA from her steam account first. Thus, I had her simply run Arma 2 OA w/o the mod, and I did the same on my computer on my account (just to be safe)... and then we tried to joining the same DayZ server again... and it worked! Seems we simply had to let steam know to refresh the cd key. Don't know if this may have been yours and your wife's issue (either of you use each others pc?)... if not... i truly how you two get it worked out! Maybe, if you do, you guys might want some survivor friends? (depending on your location, of course... we're in southern cali... let me know!)

Well... I just found this thread, because I've just discovered that my wife and I have the same issue... Basically, all this past weekend, I was playing the game on her PC, logged into my steam account. Finally, today (her first night off of work) I have her log into her steam account on her pc, and load into the game, while I log into my steam account on my pc and load in... If we try to join the same server, the 2nd person to try gets kicked from the server before even getting to the lobby. This sucks... we wanted to play together... happen to hear anything new from BIS?

Hey Rocket, here's an idea... Let's say you decide to implement some manner of group spawning... what about the idea making it so that, if a group decides they want to spawn together, they all start with one bandage each, and absolutely nothing else (not even a backpack)? It seems to me that a major complaint against group spawning is that people feel that it might make things a bit too easy to start off. Thus, doing something like this might just add that extra bit of difficulty to balance it all out. Anyways... just an idea! ;) Oh, and if anyone wants to expand on this idea/concept... feel free! :)

So yesterday I had an interesting experience with another player when I wasn't paying attention... I was in Stary, up on the cat walks inside the huge red industrial building overlooking the military tents. I was waiting for a friend who mistakenly fell off the catwalk (from being prone and moving the wrong way). While I was just sitting up there out of site, I was chatting to my friends in Steam voice chat, so I didn't hear this other lone player climb up the catwalk. So all of a sudden I hear a set of footsteps near me. I immediately perked up and saw that the guy hadn't yet seen me. My instinct initially said "Shoot him, he has a rifle!" But instead, I decided to test my luck and I announced myself... I said, "Hey, I can see you, I'm friendly, I'm not going to shoot you!" To my surprise, he responded in kind. He said he was actually completely surprised that I didn't just shoot him right off the bat, as that is all it seems anyone else does. So we sat there for a few minutes chatting (this may have been a bad idea, though, and Ill get to why). After sitting there for a moment, he started walking around and checking out the surrounding area from our vantage point... when all of a sudden my character got frozen; which made me have to abort out and reconnect. When I reconnected, I explained what happened as I made my way towards him... as he wanted to know if I saw anything. This is where things got ugly, and quick! The moment I stepped out into a slightly open area where there wasn't sheetmetal blocking me from view... BAM! Dead! I couldn't tell if he had just fired upon me and killed me (which I don't THINK is what happened, because he had a loud Lee Enfield on him, and I didn't hear it go off)... OR, if someone else was in the area and possibly heard us chit chatting and waited to get a good sniping shot on us! Needless to say, that was the end of that situation... and I never saw the guy again! What I learned from this experience... 1. NEVER be too vocal in possibly heavily traveled areas, as who knows who is listening! 2. Don't test your luck with announcing you're friendly if the other person is heavily armed., I got lucky that an all of firefight didn't ensue right then and there, when I could have just secured my safety by taking him out! HOWEVER... the grand part about dying, though, was that when my buddy and I finally met back up again... we found a boat that we used to head up the coast... then later we found a bus that we used to travel all over the map, until my buddy got taken out while he was driving it! Haha... I had already logged off, and he want to go park it somewhere safe... that didn't work out to our advantage! LOL Lessons learned!

Yeah, this would be the only downside if/when this is implemented, and hacking is still rampant (which is likely)... As it stands, my buddies and I have basically agreed that the ONLY time we shall even consider using Alt-F4 is if anything HUGELY suspicious happens. Such as being teleported away to somewhere else, or having someone else teleport on top of us. Other than such extreme situations, we are no wusses. We buckle down and see a firefight to the death!! Or, at least until we can gtfo of there with our lives! haha... Knowing when to retreat is never a wuss move in such survival situations! ;)

I understand, and I also wasn't really calling any one particular person an elitist. Just expressing that there ARE people who seem to think that their opinion of what should happen (regardless if it's in a game, or in life) is the most relevant and important thing known to man! (lol) All in all, though, I simply love this game and I personally WILL adjust to whatever Rocket throws at us. I personally DO love trekking thru the woods, and i LOVE exploring the map... I still have HOURS of map exploration ahead of me, as I've only been playing this thing for a few days now... my only complaint, really, has been that I'd rather spend most of my time WITH friends exploring together, than FINDING friends in order TO explore together... That's all really. ;) As for calling people names that don't read thru the posts, thus asking the same questions over and over... yeah I get your point. I've read thru all 60pages, myself. Maybe not every single word on every single post.... but enough to be completely in the loop of all that has been said... especially by Rocket! :D EDIT-- Wow... My Beans-to-Post ratio is looking good! (haha)... 9 posts to my name, and already 11 beans! I'm on a roll! (or in some soup; or something!) LOL

"Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, higher intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern." ~wikipedia In other words... those who are saying that giving players certain options to spawn is in NO WAY a plausible option, "due to it taking away from the realism" would fit my definition of elitism. I'm certainly not sitting here saying that the game MUST have these options... I'm simply saying that this is the manner which I personally would prefer to play this particular game.... and hopefully Rocket takes the opinion in and mulls it over. Exactly why, when he takes the respawn button away, I've already stated that I have no issue adjusting... and will simply be Zombie-Death-Respawning if need be. (ZDR'ing! -- my new term for this next update)... I have no problem adjusting to games as they change, nor do I have problems with changes I don't necessarily like. Doesn't mean I won't voice an opinion. I just don't go around saying everyone is retarded (or any other such name calling) because they differ in their opinion. Doing such is an elitist attitude (imo)... as it is basically saying that others are "less qualified" to give their opinion if said opinions differ from your own. This is a form of elitism.

I agree AND disagree... I agree that, for the most part, nothing should be added or taken away that detracts from the spirit of the "realism" aspect of this game!! However, I personally can only usually play video games for a few hours a night (namely between the hours of 6pm-midnight) during the weekdays. Now, I understand that 6hours of gameplay an evening should be plenty of time to trek across the entire map to find friends... and heck, on occasion (like on weekends when we have all day to play) we probably WOULD do that, just to change things up and play a bit differently during those play sessions..... HOWEVER, simply not allowing the option for choosing spawns areas or group spawning, in order to forgo some of that initial travel time, is a slight against a huge chunk of players! I mean, there are some players who have even less time to play video games than I do personally, and yet some people think the reasonable answer for them is... "just don't play this game if you don't have the time!" Comments like this only truly serve to show how arrogant some people are with their opinions. Where I disagree with you (in a manner of speaking) is where you seem to believe that adding such a spawning mechanic would actually be detracting from the CORE of the realism aspect of surviving... Sure, there wouldn't be that initial survival aspect of being alone and trying to survive while finding friends... but that can be done when playing the game alone, or like what I said above, when some might actually CHOOSE to forgo choosing a spawn point simply to change things up. To me, the core of surviving the game isn't just about running around and hoping not to die... as I am never worried if I am going to die when I'm trekking through dense wooded areas (at least not currently when no zombies spawn there)... So, the trek to friends isn't always going to be "thru hostile territory" (as someone said previously). Instead, it just becomes more of a time-sink until you meet up and then go exploring together! THAT is where the true survival aspect comes into play... exploring! I can't tell you how many times my buddies and I have died when EXPLORING together, and not realizing we had a sniper with their sights on our heads; as opposed to the times we died just running thru the forest trying to meet up. Oh wait, yeah I can... exploring deaths = A LOT! Trekking thru forest deaths = NONE! So yeah... I agree and disagree, heh! I certainly am not complaining that Rocket is taking the Respawn button away. In fact, I've accidently hit it instead of Abort on two occasions, and would appreciate not being able to accidently do it again. Myself, and friends, are still going to "zombie-death respawn" (ZDR) when we want to be closer; that's not going to change. I just think that Rocket could SIGNIFICANTLY cut down on constant respawns of ANY kind, thus cutting down on server load/performance, by simply allowing different spawning mechanics into the game. Sure, it may make the elitist groups, who think games should only be realistic and should NEVER cater to anyone else, a bit upset... but they'll get over it! ;-P

Because video game bugs aren't always easy to "kill." You can't just grab the nearest bug spray and zap em out of existence... bugs aren't always easy to find, nor is it always easy to understand WHY they are happening in the manner they are. Let alone when one minor tweak can spawn a whole new batch of them! I tip my hat to all programmers, as I simply could never do their job... omg, I'd rip my hair out, me thinks!

To add to this comment, the respawn was never intended to be used the way it is. Therefore, I need to confirm if the original design idea was a good one, or a terrible one. For this we actually need to test it and not base it on opinions here. Because clearly, there are people who think it is a good idea and those who think it is terrible. The test may never make it out of closed testing so you might not even experience it. While I've given my opinions on why spawn selection ANd/OR group spawning should be an option, I have to say that I quite understand some of the reasoning behind taking the "Respawn" option out of the game; in order to test server performance, as well as stopping the majority of people from being able to continually respawn over and over the moment they spawn in. The only thing, that I, and others, have said... is that people WILL still continually respawn by way of zombie death. So you definitely won't stop that aspect of the game. But given it will stop the ability to do it the very moment you get into the game, it should definitely help server load/performance a bit. This is why I understand if that is the prime reason for taking it out. But, as I've made my point abundantly clear in my own previous posts, I will openly admit that my friends and I will still be "zombie-death respawning" in order to get CLOSER to each other if we all happen to be spawning fresh together. And this will simply be so that we can get spawn points that are relatively close to each other; one city away is what we like to shoot for as the furthest distance. And, for us, it has absolutely nothing to do with being next to a major town in order to gear up easier... it is simply for cutting down on some INITIAL travel time in the very beginning when we all spawn anew. We would actually all be completely fine if we ALL spawned down near Kemenka... just as long as we are relatively close to each other. That is all we hope for. I completely agree with the option you are referring to here (conditional respawning), what a fantastic idea for those who happen to get stuck somewhere w/ broken limbs, etc!

And now you are gravely misunderstanding my point, and are putting words in my mouth. You think I want to skip "boring" parts? ROFLMAO!!! What boring parts? You're the one assuming that I find certain elements of this game boring. This is where you seem to completely misunderstand what I am actually saying. I will give you an example of something that just happened during the gaming session I had with two other friends yesterday evening... Friend #1 and I had been playing the game for about 1-2hrs before friend #2 finally got the game installed and was able to actually get into it. Mind you, this was friend F#2's first time playing, and F#1 and I were in Nizhnoye on our way up toward Berezino, when F#2 finally spawned in (at Kamenka)... in order to meet somewhere in the middle, travel time could easily have taken well over an hour (possibly over 2hrs), especially given F#2 was brand new to the game and had no idea what he was doing. Thus, we had him respawn, to see if we could get him just a bit closer to us.... simply to cut down on that travel time! NOT to cut it out entirely!!! So, his second spawn was near Otmel/Kamyshovo. THIS was acceptable to us, as it cut that travel time in half! Basically, we simply had him head up the dirt road from Kamyshovo, heading into the hills towards Msta, as we made our way back down from Nizhnoye. This travel time still took us about 30mins (give or take), and none of it was boring! We all enjoyed every moment of it. In fact, F#1 found a bus on our way back down, so it was a great adventure! Now sure, it would have been a great adventure making the even longer trip as well, but when it's 8pm and everyone only has around 2-3hrs left to play before they need to head to bed, we did NOT want to spend that entire amount of time simply GETTING to our friend. We wanted to get grouped up as quickly as possible so that we spend as much of that time as possible adventuring together, which we did. We went and got gas, to fill up the bus. We killed some livestock in order to finally have a chance to make a fire and cook some meat, which we found thoroughly entertaining and definitely NOT boring in that we had to do it manually. In fact, it is so much better to have to do it all manually. This is the same reason why we play Minecraft in survival mode, and not creative mode. Everything we create is done manually, because it's more fun that way!!! So the fact that you think that I'm making some point about any particular aspect of this game being boring... Again, you are gravely mistaken! The simple fact of the matter is... while there is absolutely an element of adventure and survival within simply having to run through hostile territory in order to meet with friends... that same element of survival and adventure exists when grouped up with friends as well. And it's not about us finding it "boring" to do those things... it's that we would RATHER be doing them together with as little "travel time" TO each other as possible in the beginning. However, I will add a caveat to my standpoint... Let's say F#1 and I were WAY far inland, and no where near the coastal spawn points... this is where I would disagree with allowing F#2 to spawn AT the spot where we are at. Or if one of us died, I would not agree that the dead group member be able to respawn with his group. Instead I would absolutely feel that in such situations the long travel time would have to be necessary... So if you feel that that is what I was getting at, you'd again be mistaken. I only feel that people should be able to better group up NEAR the main coastal spawning areas in the beginning (as new/fresh spawns), so that they can START their adventure together just a bit more easily. Hence why I gave two IDEAs for a solution to this... 1. You allow people to choose an AREA to spawn in, and the game then randomly chooses a spawn POINT within that area (and the areas could be quite large). Or... 2. You allow people to spawn in as a group (as long as everyone is a "new spawn"), but don't allow them to choose where. It just randomly spawns the group at a random point. Hell, you could even possibly combine these two... but alas, I hope you get my point by now. None of this game is boring to us; adventuring and traveling is not boring one bit! Doing all the manual actions, such as filling canteens and cooking (etc), also not boring! The ONLY thing that irks us, is that if we are all brand new spawns, and we want to try and meet up, it can be more of a daunting task (1-2hrs of travel) that just doesn't seem worth it at the very beginning, especially if any of us have only a limited amount of time to play. AND, odds are one of us might die just trying to reach each other, which would mean they'd be respawning again anyways! So why not just allow this for groups of people from the get-go? Let's take my idea #1 above, and put it into a scenario... Let's say that the 3 of us are all brand new spawns, and we all choose to spawn in at Cherno (for example). The game then puts one of us on one side of Cherno, and the other two on the other side (or any different # of combination of spawn locations around Cherno)... We would still have to travel TO each other, and possibly thru hostile territory just to get to each other... the only difference would be that the INITIAL TIME it will take to meet up is going to be significantly less.... this would, of course, allow us to spend that time gearing up together, as well as going out and spending the majority of our time adventuring and surviving together... I mean, if I want to try and survive alone, I'd play the game alone! Simple as that. So please don't put words in my mouth and think you understand what my point is... for you obviously are stuck in your own perception, and only care to see it your way and your way only... and so, as it seems, when someone shares any differing opinion it becomes a threat to your own opinion... which seems to put you into attack/defend mode. "No, you're wrong. I don't see it your way! MY way; MY opinion is better!" Oh how I find the "better than" complex in some people SO entertaining! But when it comes right down to it, I could care less about arguing with you. I'm making my point(s) for Rocket to see. If you think my opinion is flawed, that is simply your perception, and is acceptable. I personally UNDERSTAND the opposing opinion quite well... I just don't think the opposing position is all that well thought out, as all it seems to come down to is making statements such as "this is supposed to be hard," or "this is meant to be a survival simulation." (etc etc)... I get that! But, as I said before, it's also still a video game, and if we really wanted to get into it, we could get into SUCH a huge discussion on how UNREALISTIC certain elements of this "simulation" are... but that is neither here nor there! So again, if you only want to respond to this by telling me how much you disagree... save your breathe. I don't care! Rocket, like myself, I'm sure understands both sides of this argument, and will test things in the manner he wants to test them. It's his baby; his creation! I simply am being vocal, because I know that I am not the only one with the perception I hold, and I feel I am intelligent enough to express this perception eloquently... and w/o saying anyone else is wrong for having a different opinion... I may not agree, but that's life! Anyways... I'm sure plenty of people will think this is tl;dr... which again, is totally fine... it wasn't meant for them anyways! Peace! ;-)

Yeah, I understand that there is no "real" lore right now... but the BEST lore is always the Role-Playing lore that people bring into the game themselves. And there really shouldn't be such a huge issue with the IDEAS that I suggested earlier. I don't think they would be game killing in any way at all. I could personally care less about RESPAWNING to a particular spot.... All I care about is the time it can take, at times, to get to each other... when allowing people to simply spawn together, or in certain AREAS, would alleviate such an issue. Personally, I would prefer the ability to spawn together, where the game still chooses a RANDOM spot. I don't even need to have the option to choose where. I just don't want to have to contemplate running from Kemenka to Elektro (or further). As that's just NOT going to happen, simply to play with my friend(s)! EDIT-- Though, when we are grouped up already... THEN we will have no issues spending time traveling everywhere we can!

I'm sorry, but you are gravely over-generalizing people who also do not have ALL day to play games. You seem to think that all gamers that are complaining about this aspect of the game are basically just "carebear" gamers, and need the game to basically hold their hands. Thus they MUST be the only players who can't stand this spawning issue. You couldn't be further from the truth, sir... especially for gamers like myself and those I play with. I understand that this game is meant to be hardcore, and is meant to be as realistic as a survival sandbox as it can get... and for the most part, it's right on the money! However, lets look at the game from a LORE standpoint. Why do people start on the beach with a backpack and anything in it? Where did all these survivors come from? If we were in an actual apocalyptic zombie situation, regardless if it was Day Zero or Day 1825 (5 years into it), do you truly believe that every single person would be starting their survival journey completely ALONE?!?!?! If you do, then you're a lost cause to any rational reasoning, regarding game lore, etc (IMO) Given this game has but only a few working vehicles... that means this isn't actual Day Z(ero), as on the day of outbreak, there would still be plenty of working vehicles! THUS, in such a situation, there would definitely already be "packs" of people formed and working together. Thus, why not allow them to spawn together in this game to allow that type of "LORE" into the game? The fact that every single person starts alone, on the beach, with a backpack and some bandages, is almost like saying that every single person was lost at sea (maybe due to a shipwreck), and that they just happened to make it to land alone... You see, there is plenty of LORE to think about, and plenty of ways to perceive this game in order to implement certain mechanics in order to make it jive with it's main objective of being a truly hardcore survival game! And if you want to go on about players being carebear, because they dislike not being able to spawn with friends... my friends and I (including my wife) all played Left 4 Dead 2 purely on Expert Realism mode! Playing games as hardcore as we can is what it's all about to us! But that doesn't mean that we want to spend a huge chunk of our gaming time simply GETTING TO EACH OTHER before we can actually begin to work together as a group! I can't put it any more eloquently! Tis my 2cents!

Hey Rocket, I've been reading thru all the pages in this thread, and I am quite happy to see how much work you're putting into trying to make this game the best it can be! Kudos for the amazing work! HOWEVER, there are two MAJOR things that have killed this game's "fun" factor to me:: 1. Hackers (this is a given, of course). 2. Spawning As it stands, being spawned in random locations doesn't bother me... as long as I'm playing alone! I could care less where I spawn when I'm alone, as I'll make due! However, when I'm playing with friends, this mechanic practically kills the game, and here's why... If I had ALL day, every day, to play this game -- which would be more like actually living within a zombie apocalypse setting (24/7 full immersion), then random spawn locations would be no issue, regardless who I was trying to meet up with. But that is hardly ever the case with MANY gamers. Take myself, for instance; I have a family, a job, and thus only a limited amount of time to play video games as it is. So when I want to play a video game with friends, and the game decides to spawn us on opposite ends of the map, it could potentially take us an hour (or so) to even meet up!! That is valuable time lost!! Now, don't get me wrong, I COMPLETELY understand the realism aspect you're trying to instill into this game, and I absolutely LOVE it (for the most part); but basically penalizing people who want to play together by practically getting rid of the ability to respawn so that it doesn't take AS LONG to meet up... this is a GAME killer, imo! And for anyone who doesn't think so, then I can only assume that you must have all the time in the world to play games... unlike the huge chunk of players that do not! I have two solution IDEAS:: 1. Allow people to choose from a multitude of spawn "areas," and add more spawn locations within each area. Then, when a person chooses an AREA to spawn in, it spawns them at one of the many random spawn locations in that area. 2. Allow people to spawn in as a group, but to a random location. Both of these solutions would still keep spawn camping at a minimum, and would alleviate the frustration that is felt when I've just spawned in Kemenka and my budy spawned up in Elektro.... I'm sorry to say, but realism/immersion aside, we're simply not going to spend upwards of an hour of our precious GAMING time in just GETTING to each other in order to even play your game as a group. Again, this is a HUGE game killer, and I know that I am not the only one that thinks so. But as I said, I do understand your mentality behind what you're doing... I just think the mechanic is still a bit flawed, and could be implemented in a much better manner than doing away with respawning all together. It's as other have been saying... this is only going to mean that now instead of hitting the respawn button, people are going to go get themselves killed by zombies as quickly as they can. Same situation, different manner of accomplishing it! Which means you're not really doing anything with this change but changing the WAY people do the exact same thing! You have to understand that I am vocal about this issue, and this issues alone, simply because I just recently picked this game up after having it recommended to me by a friend, and this is literally the ONLY major issue I have with the game (besides hackers, of course, but that's a given). And to me, those who want to retort and say that this is all about REALISM and all about being as "hardcore" as possible... I get that. I really do! But at the same time, it's also still just a GAME... and games are meant to be as enjoyable as possible, while still maintaining their prime objectives... and I think my two solution ideas above would accomplish this quite well. I just hope you agree! Now, as for the logging out aspect that you're implementing... I see no issues with this, besides what everyone else has been saying... simply that at times, it can be tough to find that perfect server that your entire group can play on... Or when you find that you're on a server with hackers, and all of a sudden you and everyone else on the server is mass-teleported to the same spot, so that the hackers can basically insta-kill everyone... that would be the only time AT THIS VERY MOMENT that I have ever even considered Alt-F4'ing! I certainly don't want to be penalized because I chose to duck out at as quickly as possible before the hacker had the chance to kill me! But, as I know you're just logging things right now, I'm not all that worried. I'm sure this will all work itself out nicely! ;-) Anyways... keep up the good work! Thanks for the great mod!!!