Bororm

Physics is not an issue here, both players are operating under the same rules. Right, in 1PP neither player would see each other. The result is a different type of gameplay. Does that mean it's inherently bad? No. It's just different. If you don't prefer it that's fine. If some people do, that is also fine, that is why there is an option. Each has pros and cons. I play a bit of arma 3, I like to play king of the hill mode. I prefer to play hardcore because my preferred style of gameplay is long range sniping. The reason I choose hardcore, is because I can sit very far back in cover and know that every single person on a roof top in the city is going to be exposed because they are forced to crouch/stand to see anything. That is one of the pros for playing on first person for that given scenario for me, it is a con for those on the roofs. In this case I am using first person as a "crutch." I am taking advantage of the knowledge I have of how enemy players will act due to the first person perspective of that chosen game mode. If I play 3PP I adjust my playstyle accordingly. What is a crutch? A tool. The negative connotations are what I am calling subjective. If everyone is using that same crutch (tool) it has no real impact on gameplay in a negative manner. Some people use it better than others. Some people use some weapons better than others too. Should those weapons be changed/removed just because one player is better with it than another, when there is nothing inherently wrong with the weapon itself? DayZ is not an even playing field, every encounter is not meant to be a fair fight. But everyone should have access to the same tools/weapons/equipment/whatever. And they do. If third person cameras don't belong in DayZ, why has 3PP mode existed since the launch of the mod and into the SA? It is only known as DayZ Junior or DayZ Lite to those who care about their e-peen. There's already a way to switch between 1PP and 3PP, it's on the server browser.

Thanks for gathering all this info in one place.

Whatever the community decides is best. If it's a tighter in camera for prone/crouch. Or the thing you just suggested. Or hiding players/objects that the player can not actually see, or whatever. Doesn't matter to me as I'm perfectly happy with what I've got. My issue is not with people not liking 3PP (except for the stupid ass reasoning people employ, I do take issue with that), my issue is with people trying to take it away from those who already enjoy it. So I'd prefer if these threads all phrased their purpose as an alternative rather than a "fix" or "replacement."

Let's agree that the problem is some people don't like 3PP as currently implemented for personal reasons. My idea is a third alternative server option so everyone can be happy.

The game is designed with 3PP from the outset. Yes it is designed with 3PP in mind.

Should we recap on the reasons given as to why 3pp is unfair? 1) you can see over walls. Both sides can, what's the issue. 2) you can't sneak up on anyone. Not true, 3pp still has blind spots. 3) it fragments the community. Not to any serious degree, the exact same thing could be flipped and said about 1PP servers. Options are a good thing, not bad. This community is huge, not to mention the majority of players play 3pp servers. 4) it's a crutch. totally subjective. regardless, everyone is playing with the same crutch, makes no actual difference gameplay wise. 5) it is gamebreaking. completely false, no one's game has broken due to this. 6) it's equivalent to slavery/cancer. simply untrue 7) it ruins the experience. subjective. my experience has been great. 8) ruins immersion. also subjective. immersion is a purely subjective sensation, it can be enhanced by certain gameplay aspects for sure, but everyone is different. 9) it's cheating. it's not cheating.

A fact according to who. 3PP is a very popular game mechanic across tons of games. It's even the entire selling point of many games. You guys are giving no facts, you are giving a ton of subjective bullshit excuses as to why you believe 3PP is flawed or an exploit or unfair, where I have refuted every one of them so far with actual logic. You are too hung up because you've been on the receiving end too many times of some one who has simply made better use of the tools given to both him and you.

My view is very logical, you guys are the ones who approach the situation from a very limited perspective (pun intended). Maybe it's all that playing first person only that has given you such tunnel vision. I implore you to take a moment to to realize that there is nothing inherently unfair about 3pp as everyone has access to the same tools. That a player in ambush always has an advantage because he has chosen a position for that very purpose, to make use of what tools are available to him. If you don't enjoy the resulting gameplay of a player using his tools better than you, then I am sincerely sorry. But that is not relevant to me, as I and many others have learned to play with said tools. So get your own other set of tools if you want, but leave mine alone because I am not out there trying to fuck with your shit.

No I don't agree, and neither did a lot of people on the first page. Stop talking in absolutes.

Stopped reading at "flawed" let me know if you wanna have a real discussion without your personal bias as well.

Fixed that for you buddy.

No but it seems you are. I updated my post on the previous page with more screenshots taken directly from that video, showing how none of those situations are unfair from a game mechanic standpoint and all are a result of positioning. Look, I get it, you don't like the gameplay that results from 3PP. Again, nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean it's broken though, it means you don't like it. Do you understand the difference between not liking something, and something being broken? I am telling you, I have never in my countless hours of DayZ felt I was "cheated" by some one using third person, because I go into it fully aware of the results that can occur from playing with that perspective enabled. I adjust accordingly.

Yep that's the difference between first and third person right there. Cool, so you understand now?

Oh I'm ready for a discussion, did you actually go play? That was quick.

100% situational awareness, OK chief. Lemme know when you're done being full of shit and want to have a real discussion. Maybe after you actually play the game.

Here I'll take the screencap off that video. And here is another example: (quick edit: it'd be their right not their left. It is our left =P) It's a matter of positioning, not inherently the perspective. Just as in a first person server a player way off sniping from a bush has an advantage, because he chose a better position. All these examples people bring up about why 3pp is bad are taken from a single perspective. DayZ is not played in a vacuum, there is ALWAYS another angle. It's whoever chose the best position for the specific situation, the same shit that is true of any encounter regardless of perspective. Does it play differently? Absolutely. But it is not inherently unfair. The unfairness comes from another person making better use of their tools, the same way that any advantage occurs in a pvp situation.

It's a different type of gameplay, there's nothing wrong if you don't like it. But it is not cheating, it is not a crutch, it is not cancer, it is not whatever the fuck stupid excuses people want to call it because some guy got the drop on them, it just is. If you don't like being able to peek corners, or have people peek corners at you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. So why is there something wrong with people who have come to enjoy the gameplay that results from it? It's a different perspective, leading to different strategies and tactics. Just because you think they're cheap doesn't mean a god damn thing. People think snipers sitting in a bush 800m away are cheap, but that's a valid playstyle. 3PP is a valid playstyle, stop pretending like it's not. If you want an alternative there is nothing wrong with that. Saying something is wrong with people who enjoy it just makes you a fucking asshole, the same way as judging people by any sort of valid playstyle they might enjoy makes you an asshole.

My game hasn't broken from it, and neither have 2 million other people's. I've killed people with melee before they've seen me, because guess what, people still aim down their scopes/sights and use first person on third person servers. Keep fishing for that example of how it's impossible to sneak up on people on a third person server though.

That video is stupid because it's taken from a single perspective. There's always another corner to peek around, there's always another angle to see the person back. The map is designed with this shit in mind. That video is biased BULLSHIT.

Again you're talking out of your ass, people are snuck up on routinely in third person servers. I don't agree with the first part of the bold, but again. There is such a thing as a server mode called HARDCORE. Go check it out, it's an option.

Comparing 3pp to slavery, BULLSHIT. Complaining that it fragments a healthy community implied in a negative way, in which the majority of people are actually playing on 3PP servers? BULLSHIT Comparing 3pp to cancer, BULLSHIT Yeah this is a real great discussion full of hyperbole and totally subjective objections to an objectively fair mechanic. And before you guys give me that BULLSHIT about how it's not fair, because some guy can see over a ledge. You can do the same exact shit, so yes it is fair. Everyone has access to the same tools.

Total bullshit. no one's ever been snuck up on, on a third person server? are you fucking kidding me I swear to god, do you people even play this fucking game or do you just sit around theorizing all day.

I'd say that's a problem with tents and not helicopters.

I tried the m4 bayonet and it sucked. I've used the mosin bayonet in the past and it was pretty decent but that was several patches ago. The nice thing about bayonets however is that while attached to your gun you can take them straight into your hands, and when not in your hands they're still on the gun. So you effectively get an extra melee weapon slot, without having to take up inventory space. I've heard they do affect accuracy however, though not sure if true.

So do a third server option. All these threads are always about replacing 3rd person as it stands. Make an alternative, not a replacement. 3PP is not "broken" it is not "cancer" it is not an "exploit" any of the myriad of stupid shit people say it is. It's a game mode, one that has been part of DayZ from the start and one that a lot of people have learned to enjoy. Just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's broken. I'm all for alternatives and options, but the way people go about making these threads are not about discussion they are about dick measuring bullshit as an excuse to have a valid playstyle changed. I mean look at this BULLSHIT. Destructive? should be completely removed? causes damage to gameplay? This isn't a proposed discussion, this is some one who doesn't like a game type saying it should be gone for totally subjective reasons.