bazbake

And then you realize everyone's anonymous and no one can see anyone's names and then that whole argument falls apart.

@MisterMotivational Banditry is the easiest way to play the game. But you know that (you quoted me), which is why you're not arguing on fact, you're arguing on principle. If you're a bandit, wear the badge. If you're good at PvP and stealth, you'll survive. Unless a 50/50 chance of survival in a stand-up fight is too much for you to handle (you have my sympathies...we can't all be good at combat :rolleyes: ).

This is so legit! I got to thinking about anatomy, and most of a weapon's stopping power is its ability to deprive people of blood to the brain and occasionally to stun them with pain. To kill someone immediately with a headshot you have to hit the apricot at the back of the head. I tossed together a brief, unscientific system: Head: Moderate chance of unconsciousness + high blood loss modifier + small chance of instant kill Heart: Moderate chance of unconsciousness + high blood loss multiplier + high chance of shock Torso (arteries and bags of pain): Low chance of unconsciousness + moderate blood loss multiplier + moderate chance of shock + low chance of infection. Arm: Small chance of fracture + normal blood loss/small chance of moderate blood loss multiplier. Legs: Small chance rate of fracture + normal blood loss/small chance of high blood loss modifier. Bigger bullets would cause greater bleeding. And then depending on the hit an additional modifier. E.g., 100 base bleeding x 2 moderate bleeding = 200 bleeding per tick. Could use more work and some better balancing for unconsciousness and shock maybe.

It's called buttstroke. I mean, there's Just in case people missed it. Anything that makes the game more intuitive for players (i.e., gives them options they would do in a real life survival situation) is good by me. In Deadliest Warriors, "Jesse James v. Al Capone" they showed that pistol-whipping someone with a revolver barrel could fracture the skull and kill in one hit (Netflix!) Although I don't know how effective a pistol would be these days. Buttstocking, on the other hand, is real-world combat training.

Someone in another thread I can't find right now described the idea of you looking more like a zombie the more people you killed. The logic is that everyone is infected by the virus (like Walking Dead) and the more innocent people you kill, the more you act like a zombie, the faster the virus overtakes you. Being "humane" has a placebo effect and your body fights back harder to resist losing your "humanity." Giving in to your worst nature makes you more like the zombies that are overtaking the village. It would also make normal people creeped out around you (heartbeat/panic). And if you're zombified enough they could kill you without consequence since they're just stopping an infected person.

Well, that's at least more realistic than what we have now. I...guess I can spare some beans. And maybe people will stop thinking AS50's are plasma rifles.

Until bandit skins are returned and weapon damage gets flattened to something more realistic, banditry is logically the easiest way to play the game. I addressed it in this post here. But I'll repeat it since it's not complicated. If two equally-matched bandits meet, whoever shoots first gets the other's loot. If an equally-matched bandit and survivor meet, the bandit always shoots first so he always gets the loot. If equally-matched survivors meet, neither one will shoot. No one gets extra loot. So bandits have a 3 in 4 chance of killing the next person they meet and taking all of their loot. Their survival is equal to their loot chances. Survivors only have a 2 in 4 chance of even surviving the next person they meet and there is absolutely no guarantee of improving their loot at all. So it is actually more likely that a bandit will walk away from an encounter with loot than a survivor will walk away with their life. But don't think that this is a proper PvP game, though. In a game where everyone is a bandit, a bandit's survival rate is only 2 in 4. And a bandit's survival rate if all bandits are identifiable? Also 2 in 4. Bandits are vehemently against identification because it makes the odds equal to if everyone were a bandit. They don't want a fully PvP server, what they want is a server where they are more likely to be able to shoot you before you can shoot them. They don't want a challenge, they want PK'ers to have a big advantage over non-PK'ers. And that only works if PK'ers are allowed to pretend that they don't.

Because bandits clearly can't shoot at the same time? I don't even know what you're getting at there. The way it works, the bandits almost always win in this scenario. If bandits are identified, though, then there's now a 50/50 chance that at least one survivor escapes and a 50/50 chance that one bandit escapes. Keep adding bandits and survivors if you want, man, it won't make you less wrong. Without bandit identification, bandits are a lot more likely to survive encounters with other people than survivors are. Another "sometimes the coin lands on its edge" argument? Survivors have a challenge, bandits have an advantage. Survivors aren't guaranteed loot in any encounter. Bandits are guaranteed loot whenever they see someone first. If they see a bandit first, they shoot the bandit and take their loot. If they see a survivor first, they shoot the survivor and take their loot. If they see a survivor after the survivor sees them, they shoot the survivor and take their loot. If they see the bandit after the bandit sees them, they get shot and lose their loot. One out of four. 25% chance of a bandit dying in any encounter with another player. Now, if you're a survivor, you see a survivor, you don't shoot...whoops, nevermind, it's a bandit -- he takes your loot. A survivor sees you first -- no, wait, it's a bandit, he took your loot. If you see a survivor, neither one of you shoots. If a survivor sees you, neither one of you shoots. Two out of four. 50% chance of a survivor dying in any encounter with another player. And you want to tell me that it's a challenge to play as a bandit by giving me this nonsense about survivors playing more carefully? Know why they play more carefully? Because they're twice as likely to die as you are. There's a reason you don't play "assassin" with more than one assassin. Everyone would be dead! If you're defending PvP and want to continue to fight other players, there's no reason for you to cower behind a survivor skin unless you won't stand a chance in a fight. But that's probably the point you're getting at...

Simple system I had in mind involving threat tags. Threat tags: if you swap items you get a threat tag and are a "threat." Four seconds of being unarmed or lowering your weapon means you're not a threat. Healing someone who's not a threat raises your humanity. Being killed when you're not a threat raises your humanity. Hurting someone who's not a threat costs you humanity. Killing someone who's not a threat makes you a murderer. Bandits are always threats. Basically, murders don't count and humanity isn't lost if someone looks like they're pulling out a weapon, is currently holding one, or has just put a weapon away. Bandits can be killed without consequence. Being nice to people who aren't threats rewards you with humanity. Dying when you're not a threat also rewards you with humanity.

Wasteland legends. I would love to see a high-humanity player with a sniper rifle just strolling through with maybe a hero skin. I'd follow them to the gates of hell and back and give them all my beans.

To paraphrase your point: "We all know that bandits looking like survivors is like survivors betting that neither coin in a double coin toss will come up heads. And playing a bandit is like betting at least one of them will. But sometimes coins land on their sides!" While I understood what you're trying to say...I find it unconvincing.

So you're cool with banditry being a 50/50 success/failure rate at 5 meters. But at 11 meters it should definitely remain a 75% chance of success. Got it. There's a chance the survivor will kill the other survivor out of boredom. Is it likely? No. If the survivors are equally matched, the survivors get nothing. Zero-sum. If the survivor and bandit are equally matched, the bandit shoots first, takes the survivor's stuff, and walks away better off. Just about every time, in fact. Benefit.

Search "bandit/survivor/humanitarian" and have a look at that. Allows plenty of gray areas where killing people doesn't count as murder. Also systems for restoring humanity. The current system is broken/doesn't work. You get murders if you shoot someone that hasn't wounded you yet. But since sniper rifles are one-shot kills, you get murders even if you kill someone who is shooting at you so you have to let them kill you basically or eat the murder. The system I mentioned above resolves this. I should probably find the link. In short: If you're unarmed, killing you is a murder. Hurting you costs some humanity as well. Raise your weapon/swap weapons/reach into your inventory and you're tagged as a threat. Killing you is fine. Four seconds after you lower your weapon/have finished swapping to your inventory item/go unarmed again, shooting you is a murder. Bandits can always be killed. It'd work like your standard MMO PvP tag. Combined with bandit identification, it would balance out the risk/reward making bandits only have a 50/50 chance of benefitting from encounters instead of having a 75% chance as it currently is. And it would still make banditry a viable option since bandits are more likely to get good loot by killing people than they are by being nice.

I think you mean that it's immediately going to work. Seriously, "Don't fix it...it's already broken for me?" I'm on board with a period of amnesty, though.

Nice try, but you're not very convincing at all. Bandits are KoS. Period. No matter what you do, they want to shoot you first and take your stuff. Survivors are not KoS. They won't shoot until you shoot. Considering how powerful guns that aren't shotguns or pistols are in this game, and the high probability of a first-shot kill, these are the possibilities when two players meet [Current Example 1]: Bandit finds Bandit = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first. Bandit meets Survivor = Bandit will shoot while survivor hesitates. Survivor finds Survivor = Survivors won't shoot. Survivors lose nothing. Survivors gain nothing. So in 75% of all encounters involving a particular bandit, he gets to take someone's stuff. In half of all encounters involving a survivor, a survivor gets to live. Logic says that survivors will eventually give up and become bandits. Not only will their odds of not dying go up by 25%, but their odds of getting someone else's loot will go up to 75%. It's going to happen. The only way this won't happen is with a constant influx of new players who don't know any better and the heavy use of metagaming (using forums, chatrooms, ventrilo, mumble, and bringing your friends along in order to circumvent the limits of the game.) But don't be fooled. Bandits knows exactly how the system works. The reason they don't want to be identified is not because it will break the game. The reason they don't want to be identified is because the game is already broken in their favor. There is only one situation where a bandit is ever under threat, and that is if they encounter another bandit. Bandits are already statistically more likely to benefit from encounters with other players than survivors are to walk away alive. Now, what happens if bandits are identified? [Example 2] Bandit finds bandit = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first. Bandit meets survivor = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first. Survivor finds survivor = Survivors won't shoot. If bandits are identified, then survivors have a 75% chance of surviving encounters with other players and a 25% chance of getting someone's loot. Bandits, on the other hand, get a 50% chance of surviving encounters with other players and a 50% chance of getting someone's loot. The idea of this breaking the game is nonsense. It's actually the only way the game can function unless the playerbase turns fully bandit. Now, if everyone is a bandit [Example 3]... Bandit finds bandit = 50/50 chance of being shot or shooting first. 50/50 chance of getting loot. This is the game some of them want to play. But here's the thing. For bandits interested in PvP combat, Example 2 and 3 are the exact same game. For bandits actually wanting to fight in PvP, having bandits identified on sight would be no different for them. It's the bandits that don't want a straight-up fight that are affected by this. They are afraid that a survivor will sneak up on them and kill them before they have a chance to respond. They're terrified that survivors will treat them the same way they treat everyone else. And to them, that breaks the game.

As a solo survivor, I'm not bothered by this change to the system. Solo players only need a few items: Map Watch Compass Hunting Knife Hatchet Considering how often the hatchet is used as a primary weapon, that's really only four items you need on your toolbelt at all times. With a GPS, that's two less slots in my backpack. Toolbox? Four less slots. Even with full loadout, we're only talking a coyote bag worth of stuff, and before I figured out the mechanics for backpacks I had no problem running around with nothing but my main inventory. A more reasonable system, though, would have the map, compass, matches, and watch take up one slot, the hunting knife be a secondary weapon taking up four slots. GPS would take one slot. Toolbox would take two like the firewood.

It's actually completely logical. It's funny watching the bandits squirm at this. So if the virus is a rage virus like 28 Days Later...then Zombies are just normal humans that hate other humans because of a virus. No superpowers. Nothing separating them at all except for red eyes and bulging veins. What are bandits? Normal humans that hate other humans. But what if everyone on the island is infected by a virus just like 28 Days Later? What if the people who act more humane toward each other are actually the people who are resisting the virus and the people acting like bandits are unwittingly succumbing to the virus. And then when it's too late, WHAM, they turn into zombies. Total. Fridge. Brilliance... Best idea yet. Take my damn beans!!!!! Take 'em all!!!! EDIT: Okay, here's an idea. Humanity is your ability to fight off the zombie virus. The more evil you are, the more you turn into a zombie. Think: The Walking Dead where everyone is infected except instead of dying making you a zombie, being evil turns you into a zombie (see: REC) Humanitarian - Really high humanity level. Survivors and humanitarians have lowered panic response around them. Names look blue to survivors and humanitarians. Green to everyone else. Survivor - Slightly below 0 to high humanity level. Calmed by humanitarians. Heart beat increases around anyone with a lower humanitarian level. Bandit - Low negative humanity level. Don't respond to humanitarians anymore. Veins bulging from their necks. Skin losing color. Heart beat increases around anyone with a lower humanitarian level. Killing them doesn't count as a murder. Turning - High negative humanity level. Eyes turn red. Veins bulge from their skin. Skin loses all color. Heart beat increases around anyone with a lower humanitarian level. Killing them doesn't count as a murder. Zombifying - Really high negative humanity level. Face is replaced by a zombie face but zombies will still attack. Panic response to everyone with a higher humanitarian level, but no panic response to zombies. Killing them doesn't count as a murder.

All guns are built to kill. That's what guns were invented to do. But you don't magically get a deadlier gun by making the barrel longer. If you want a gun to do more damage to the human body, you need a bigger bullet. Know what has a bigger bullet than every gun in the game? A shotgun. Know what has a bigger bullet than every sniper rifle in the game other than the AS50 and M107? Every pistol. In real life, bullet damage goes in this order from most damage to least damage: Shotgun > AS 50 + M107 > M1911 + Revolver > Winchester > Pistols + PDW + Bizon + MP5 > Lee Enfield + CZ550 > DMR + M24 + AKM + M240 Dragunov + FN FAL > STANAG + AK But here's how the game treats the guns: AS50 > M107 > Lee Enfield > All other sniper rifles > Shotgun > AKM > All other Assault Rifles > M1911 + Revolver > Pistols + PDW + Bizon + MP5 So you see the shotgun, which is the deadliest gun in real life, is bumped down to the middle of the list. The sniper rifles, which are the weakest guns in real life, end up at the top of the list. And the pistols, which are among the most deadly weapons in real life, end up being not just weak but nearly useless short of a headshot. But, you know, VideogamesTM.

ArmaII's gun damage tables are increasingly becoming a joke. --http://en.wikipedia....mics_of_bullets Guess how much damage handguns and shotguns do in Arma II.... (Hint: ArmaII's damage tables are a joke.)

Throw out tents and vehicle storage. Make everyone either start from the beginning or have their friends guard their dead bodies until they come back. I keep hearing these stories of people PVPing and committing banditry and then hoarding all of these weapons and equipment in camps. Then they run off and grief newspawns all day until they're killed. Then they run back to camp, pick up another gun, and then run out and start killing again. If you removed tents and vehicle storage, it would cut down on PVP, cut down on hoarding, and increase the difficulty level all at once. But it would have absolutely no negative effects on new players in the process. This is the easiest and simplest solution I've heard from anyone so far so I think it needs repeating. Everyone who dies should start from the beginning -- period. Otherwise it's not really permadeath...it's kinda-sorta-death-maybe-I-guess.

Probably. Don't confuse the velocity and penetration of a bullet with its stopping power. They're mostly unrelated.

A couple of concerns with the body armor aspect. 1) Bullet resistant vests won't do much to stop rifle rounds. So adding health to your character would be Videogame LogicTM, since a sniper rifle or assault rifle would still go through. 2) A ballistic vest that would stop rifle rounds weighs 8 times that of a normal bulletproof vest. The Modular Tactical Vest weighs about 30 pounds. So I can see the situation where the Bulletproof vest decreases the damage from pistol and shotgun blasts but not rifles. Or where the ballistic vest decreases the damage from rifles but you have to keep it in your backpack slot instead of a backpack.

After playing this game and thinking about Rocket's "experiment" into human nature, all I can say is that I have definitely learned something. In a zombie apocalypse where: The internet works. You can organize teams offline. You can turn on magical radios to communicate with people over infinite distances. Everybody is the same height and weight. You can leap into an alternate reality if you're stuck in a gunfight... Or to get at slightly different resources... Which you looked up with your up extremely detailed maps that tell you where all of those resources are. You know exactly where new people are going to appear and know that they have no weapons. There is no such thing as body language and everyone can bluff perfectly. When you die the only thing that happens is that you lose whatever you were carrying in your pockets. Pistols sting, shotguns are painful, but sniper rifles are superlasers with perfect accuracy that make you explode.... People will grab sniper rifles and kill unarmed people over and over again. A fascinating experiment...

I thought the whole point of virtual worlds was to do things we otherwise didn't have the resources or time to do. If you want to be a douche, then accept that your douchiness is a choice based off of your personality and your desire to be a douche. DayZ just gives you the anonymity and lack of consequences to be a douche.

I experienced a hacker a couple days ago. I spawned into the map and immediately was teleported to debug world with a broken leg and none of my equipment. Alt+F'ed the hell out of that place right quick.