bazbake

So the general consensus is that shock isn't working because it punishes people for running away from fights or logging out when their legs are broken to wait for their friends to log back in to give them morphine. So the general consensus is that shock is working as intended.

Depends on where you get shot, now doesn't it? There's no paraplegic system in this game, so it's safe to assume that every fall involves a stunt roll at X height if you don't break anything and a bad landing at Y height if you break something. Neither of which is likely to cause spinal damage. In fact, the players in this game are made out of glass. A fall from a second story should rarely cause severe trauma, but you're probably going to break a leg and pass out from unconsciousness anyway. It usually takes a fall of four or five stories to even kill a child. That's 50 feet straight down. The survivors in this game are weaker than toddlers when it comes to falling physics.

Unless something changed in the last two days, I have yet to see this option. Flashlights should be accessable just like chemlights, from the F inventory while holding a weapon. Most flashlights don't weigh any more than flares. If this doesn't change, then flashlights should be wieldable as maglights since they're supposedly just as heavy. That way we can kill zombies in the middle of the night. Definitely need to change the flashlight animation. Why can I walk while aiming a rifle but I can't walk while aiming a flashlight? This violates any concept of reality and seems to be put in just to make life harder for new players. (Same with all the horrible pistol animations and limitations...who exactly is this game supposed to be hard for?)

I need to know if it's okay to kill people in Ghillie suits.

It only takes 1 murder to get a bandit skin. However, it doesn't take very long to lose that bandit skin (although it's impossible to lose it immediately). Bandit skins mean you're prone to murder. It doesn't mean you're a mass murderer or a psycho killer. It's more of a sign that, "Yes, it is okay to kill this person if you see them since they have a habit of shooting first and asking questions later..." I don't think it's supposed to mean, "This person is the bane of all existence, hunt them down and slaughter them." I think they'd have to add an extra bandit skin like a "Super killer supreme monster" skin at about -15,000 in order for you to get bonus points for killing them.

Check the dude's humanity. It's -1629 to start. I don't think he's one of those. Then again...now his humanit'y -6400, so I hope it was worth it when that camo gets lost.

Were they wearing wraps around their heads? That means they're bandits. Were they wearing ghillie suits? Probably bandits. And if they weren't wearing wraps, well, now they're bandits so fuck 'em.

Sounds like trolling. Bettter keep poking at it just in case...

EDIT: You're more likely to survive a fall than a gunshot. People have fallen out of airplanes without parachutes and survived. And we already have a system for breaking legs to reflect the damage from falling from heights.

Shock mechanic means "don't leave until it goes away or we will punish you for Alt+F4ing."

All the more reason to nerf them, isn't it? Harder to survive alone before we start adding in blood bags.

This thread had a system for Bandits, Soldiers, and Survivors and I saw his use of stances for the different roles. While I don't agree necessarily with the implementation, it did give me an idea on how to conveniently address the Bandit/Survivor conundrum (and if not, it could be added to whatever the resolution ends up being). So, I keep hearing these stories: I was unarmed and someone shot me. I saluted someone and someone shot me. I bandaged this guy and then he stood up and hatcheted me in the face. I tried to socialize and then people shot me anyway. I put my gun down and people shot me. And while some of these players eventually gave up, it's interesting how many players never gave up and keep trying to save what's left of humanity in this virtual world. Then I read the thread above and it occurred to me: the players doing these things and sticking through it are a completely different kind of player. They're a completely different personality type. They keep sacrificing to maintain their moral code even when it risks everything they've gained. And then it also occurred to me that there are people who, when they see the vulnerable and see people who literally patch them up and save their lives, turn around and kill them. That's an entirely different kind of player as well. Humanity is something real. I tried to think about different signs of this. I remembered sociopaths who lack the capacity for empathy and have to learn to fake it. I thought about mental illness and the psychological trauma of murder causes. I thought about people with regret, and testimony from organized crime members who talked about how you eventually get so used to killing that it just fundamentally changes who you are as a person and how you interact and relate to other people. How it becomes harder to deal with family after living with that much violence. Humanity is something real. So, what if there was an invisible player tag that would trigger for every character whenever they did a particular action. And if they died or killed somebody while this tag was on, they would gain or lose humanity? And what if, just like in real life, after losing respect for human life and empathy, their entire personality changed. Body Language Among the list of things above, I can parse out some very Good Guy Greg actions: Putting your gun down. Healing somebody. Trying to socialize. Considering this, I propose we would have two toggled threat levels: Aggressive and Passive. Aggressive means you are ready for combat. Passive means you aren't in a position to attack anybody. Upon character creation, your passive/aggressive modes are both unlocked with all unarmed characters being automatically passive. When you initiate a weapon change or the equipping of a weapon/item in your hand or switch from lowered weapon to raised weapon, a split second before the animation starts you are tagged with a persistent timer that lasts four or five seconds marking you as Aggressive. This timer is not visible to you or other players, it's just an invisible tag referencing the threat level another player would see you as, and it reflects the aggressive nature of you reaching for your weapon while preventing exploits by rapidly lowering and raising weapon to confuse other players (every time you tried to switch to aggressive, you would be fair game for a bullet wound for the next several seconds no matter what). At the end of this timer, a check is made. If you are still in Aggressive mode, you stay in Aggressive mode until you put your weapon away or lower it. The timer reflects that any other person would still view you as possibly dangerous and be justified in taking defensive action until everyone has cooled down. If you lower your weapon after the timer runs out or you remove your weapon, no timer is triggered at all and you immediately enter Passive mode. To recap: If you do anything involving changing to a weapon or readying a weapon, you are tagged Aggressive. This timer restarts every time you swap into an Aggressive action. If you are Passive after the timer ends, you stay that way until Step 1. Let Me Hear Your Body Talk (Your Body Talk)! The point behind these tags is simple. Many people only turn into bandits because they have no idea how to determine the actions of other players. Many get bandit tags acting out of self-defense. The system is ineffective because it only recognizes danger after you've been shot. But no more. Now every time a person raises their weapon or gets ready to swap to a weapon (or anything that might look like a weapon), they can be shot and killed without the shooter being punished. The other side of this is that, if you don't want to get shot in the Zombie Apocalypse, holster your weapon or put it away. The other, OTHER side of this is that every time you attack someone with a lowered weapon, you're going to lose humanity -- period. We now have body language. We have a system where we can identify threats immediately. We can react without worry or panic to people who may be drawing a weapon. And we know that if someone shot you with your weapon down, they were probably a bandit. Other players will now notice when you look like you're about to attack because you won't always have your gun raised, and they won't be punished for responding. Of course, if you put your gun down for four seconds, then they don't have any reason to be paranoid or reactive anymore and shooting you becomes an act of cold-blooded murder. (If you attack a person who is Passive, you lose a smaller fraction of the humanity you would lose for killing them.) The Poker Face Dilemma, aka, "That Creepy Dude in the Corner Keeps Staring at Me" And since we have body language, we can now implement a system that reflects the effect that stress and morale have on that body language and the basis of human interactions. And the first of these is murderous intent and the negative effects of losing empathy on how you view and interact with other people. Normal people don't kill in cold blood. They usually require a push of some sort. And even in a zombie apocalypse, there is very little chance of a desk jockey picking up a gun, hunting down humans for sport, and still seeing them as complex individuals with wants, needs, desires, and separate personalities. Basically, the less you view humanity as something to which you belong, the less need you have for normal social graces and the less you will be able to interact in these very subtle human ways that put others at ease. But videogames don't let you read poker faces (except in LA Noire) because of technology limitations. The easiest way to resolve this is by making certain levels of humanity do things more easily than others. For example, normal people carrying guns are afraid of shooting other people. Even when armed, they don't point at anything unless they intend to kill it just in case they accidentally shoot an innocent person. Mass murderers, on the other hand, want to kill everything in sight. Why would they worry about accidentally killing people since they don't even see others as human beings anymore? This natural aggression would translate easily to the new system. Since Bandits are always aggressive, they can never lose their Aggressive mode and shooting them never decreases your humanity. Ever. Even when they're unarmed. In addition, they can never lower their weapon until their humanity goes back up. Instead, every time a bandit tries to lower his weapon he aims down the sights instead -- becoming extra aggressive. And instead of saluting a Bandit could make a motion with their thumb across their neck like they want to slit your throat (or...no salute at all). That way Bandits could willingly identify each other but no one can identify them unless they interrogate them first. This still allows bandits to bluff by swapping out a weapon to look less dangerous and doesn't necessarily put a flag over their heads unless they try to interact too deeply with other players. How Would Something Like this Play Out? Let's say there's a group of survivors standing on the side of the road with their guns down. They may look dangerous but not necessarily aggressive. Then a group of robbers come over the ridge with their guns raised. "Give us everything you have or we'll shoot." Now, we are in an interesting situation. If the first group fired on the robbers, they wouldn't lose any humanity. They're threatened. If the robbers fired on the first group, they would instantly lose humanity points for attacking unarmed people and maybe even more points for murder. But it's completely possible the group doing the robbery may have a high humanity level. They could be completely bluffing and not be actual "bandits". No matter what, if the first group fires back, they don't lose humanity points at all. They didn't go looking for trouble, they're threatened, they're justified. But the robbers, not so much. Even if the robbers change their mind, shooting a robber in the heat of the moment while his gun is raised is justified, but not necessarily killing him while his back is turned and he's running away. Plus, bandits are always aggressive, so if a bandit runs away, no matter how far he runs he will always be a threat and you can kill him no matter what. But if a robber was bluffing and puts his gun away when you catch him, you know that he was probably never going to kill you in the first place. You've read his body language. Now, this doesn't mean you can't kill him and still stay a survivor. If you don't kill many people, you can afford to kill one or two robbers just to teach them a lesson without becoming a bandit. you'll lose the same humanity, but in the long run it may just balance out. And what if the ambushed survivors turn around and walk away calling their bluff? If the robbers are bandits, they'll lose more humanity by shooting them. If they're bluffing, then they'll just have to let them walk away. This system actually allows people to rob others without firing a shot just by playing an elaborate game of "poker" using threats. To recap so far: If you do anything involving changing to a weapon or readying a weapon, you are tagged Aggressive. This timer restarts every time you swap into an Aggressive action. If you are Passive after the timer ends, you stay that way until Step 1. Bandits are always tagged Aggressive. In addition, they can't lower their weapons or salute normally. Instead, they either aim down the sights for the former or get a special threatening bandit salute if it can be coded in. Back from the Brink So, you've shot a bunch of people in cold blood and now you can't salute or put your gun down and no one trusts you. Or maybe you slipped a little bit into the negatives for humanity and you want to slow your descent? Try on some humanity. One way to see humanity increase would be to have it tick back up over time. A small amount, gradual, a tiny fraction of the amount you get for killing or wounding someone. Basically, if you don't kill people your humanity will eventually increase. But a faster way to see your humanity return would be to keep others alive by helping them. If you heal someone who is Passive, that is, who isn't a bandit and isn't battle-ready, you should get a small number of humanity points. This way you wouldn't be rewarded for being the medic in a group of bandits since bandits could never go into Passive mode and you wouldn't be rewarded for helping keep a squad alive while they kill things. You would specifically gain a small number of points for helping people in danger (like random people bleeding out). And it's just common sense. If some guy won't put his gun away and instead demands that you heal him, that's not humanity, that's duress. This only rewards you for helping people under your own initiative. And to recognize your fearless self-sacrifice, if you get killed by a player while you're in Passive mode, your humanity gets a boost. If you run out into the middle of a firefight to drag your friend to safety and die? If you are patching up a stranger and he hits you in the face with a hatchet? If you turn the corner unarmed and wave to someone and take a shot to the face? If you're a newspawn on the coast between Elektro and Cherno and a sniper guns you down while you're on the move? If a group of robbers appear and demand your loot and instead of shooting them you give a speech about choices and civility and they shoot you in the back while you walk away with your dignity intact? Boom, humanity points. Humanitarian of the Year! Okay, so now you can figure out if someone is trustworthy or not even though they are a bunch of polygons on a screen in low resolution incapable of physical nuance or action. And hesitating before pulling the trigger now has substantive rewards along with the risk. So what's merely surviving if you're not thriving? For those people who strictly adhere to a code of honesty, civility, diplomacy, and generosity, or just those who never got so angry that they decided to hunt other players down and kill them just because they had it done to them, we have a new category on the opposite spectrum from bandit. Humanitarian! Humanitarians are indistinguishable from normal survivors except for tiny details. Normal survivors that look at them and can see their nametags see their names as blue. Normal survivors standing near them have a subtle decrease in their hyperventilation and panic responses. ------------------------------ So, to recap all of it: If you do anything involving changing to a weapon or readying a weapon, you are tagged Aggressive. This timer restarts every time you swap into an Aggressive action. If you are Passive after the timer ends, you stay that way until Step 1. Bandits are always tagged Aggressive. In addition, they can't lower their weapons or salute normally. Instead, they either aim down the sights for the former or get a special threatening bandit salute for the latter if that can be coded. Killing and wounding Passives loses you humanity. Killing and wounding Aggressives loses you no humanity. Healing a Passive gains you some humanity. Being killed while you're Passive gains you more humanity. Humanity level carries over after death. There is a limit to positive and negative humanity (to prevent farming it). --------------------------------- Some other possible future options. When dogs are implemented, humanity may make it easier for you to befriend dogs (thousands of years of parallel evolution and all that). It may make it so that wild dogs won't attack you at all while you're Passive. Friend to all creatures great and small and all that. Certain uniforms could only be worn by certain humanity levels. Medic and police uniforms for Humanitarians, Bandit and Mercenary uniforms for Bandits. Completely by choice, though, so humanitarians can't be exploited and bandits not necessarily hunted down from across the map.

Sounds good.

Humanity carries across death. The bandit skin is default so you can't take it off bandits.

Meta-gaming also breaks the game by undermining every boundary established by a proper sandbox game because players abandon the mechanics of the game in order to achieve an advantage only accessible by circumventing the rules of the system. We also call this "cheesy as fuck." It's why people whine that the game is getting too easy while they have an online map from dayzdb.com open in one screen, their HDR turned up to max so they can go loot hunting at night, and go on forums asking for medics to roll through on their server to patch them up with some morphine while they wait for it to restart so they can grab those NVGs that are more likely to appear in a fresh spawn. Carebear stare all up in this motherfucker. And then someone declares that this is the heart and soul of the game. While they don't even bother picking up an in-game map because it's topographical and doesn't tell them where all the deerstands are. Heh.

I'd like to see vehicles spawn in random locations like helicopter crashes one day instead of set locations. The fact that there's a map to find vehicles out there seems like a flaw.

Someone didn't get the memo...

Unforeseen consequences.

Humans die/go into cardiac arrest when they lose 40% of their blood. A pint would be 3,000 blood points, not 1,000. It takes a healthy body 6-8 weeks to starve to death. Let's average that to 7 weeks. About an hour and a half in-game. So if a person starves to death in an hour and a half, they should recover 3,000 points of blood every hour. Or 50 points of blood a minute. Or about .83 points of blood a second. Or 6.66666666... point of blood every 8 seconds. (Maths!!!!!) His blood regeneration is a little slow...but I'm sure he'd be willing to tinker with it.

Haha...! NO. (But ha!) Everything is artificial. He used the words "real scarcity" and I pointed out that the scarcity he was pushing was artificial scarcity. I also showed how easily abused the system would be. Capping the number of items benefits hoarders and server hoppers and abusive admins but does nothing for the player base. It would drastically increase the value of items, yes, but only because players would use metagaming to manipulate the in-game economy like a bunch of weasel shits. (This is the most obvious end result and better to spot it now before someone thinks they're actually clever or something.) The easy solution is to limit what your player can carry to their inventory and backpack. You can't create more loot than there are players to carry that loot. Instant loot cap. If you die and your teammates can't recover your body, your loot disappears on respawn unless someone else picks it up, empties out their own inventory, and then THAT loot disappears on respawn. So loot will drain out of the in-game economy naturally as players die or abandon their old equipment for better equipment. It doesn't matter if a player gets the best equipment and quits because...it has no effect on subsequent loot. He can stop playing for 10 years and come back and he would have had no effect on the in-game economy. In fact, players don't effect the loot economy until they lose loot in this system. Plug pulled. Problem solved. Of course, there are obvious complaints. 1. Players aren't motivated to keep looking for really good shit once they've found it all. And with the threat of death they'll be less likely to risk losing it and will probably just quit the game with all of their equipment. This...is not logical. It almost sounds like it makes sense, and I'm sure someone will respond this way, but if so why bother playing the game in the first place once you even got the best loot the first time? 2. "Oh no, if I die my life sucks and I have to play from the beginning like a newb!" Did you not get the memo? The fact is, there needs to be room for player growth. And there needs to be a way to stop the constant growth of new equipment. And if sacrificing player security in a game with permadeath is the cost, then so be it. External storage needs to be removed from the game.

Just wait until tents and vehicle storage disappear. Then you'll have your medic, "the guy with the medical supplies in his backpack," your engineer, "the guy with car parts," your soldier, "the guy with all of the ammo and an extra gun," your sniper, "the sniper with the sniper snipe sniping it up," etc. Because you can't just run back to your tent and change loadouts. Also, survivor class would be the guy with a little bit of everything up in his bag. And bandit class would have a penis on his face.

The game reflects your wandering search for sustenance and protection through town after town in a fight for survival. Cans restock because there are 1,000,000 players picking over them, not 30 people on a single server as you generally witness. Just think of the cans respawning as "some stuff you missed last time."

"Cavitation is nothing more than a transient displacement of tissue, a stretch, a localized "blunt trauma." Is is not surprising that elastic tissue such as bowel wall, lung, and muscle are relatively resistant to being damaged by this stretch, while solid organs such as liver are not. Most of the muscle subjected to temporary cavity stretch survives; tissue survival has been verified in every case in which muscle was allowed to remain in situ and healing was followed to completion." -- Fackler -- 4. ""It is now appreciated and documented that bullet fragmentation is the predominant reason underlying the M-16's increased tissue disruption. Despite this recent evidence, a generation of surgeons and weapon developers has been confused and prejudiced by the assumption that "high velocity" and "temporary cavitation" were the sole causes of tissue disruption." -- Fackler -- 5 "It should be noted, however that stretch from temporary cavity tissue displacement can disrupt blood vessels or break bones at some distance from the projectile path...but in practice this happens only very rarely. Data from the Vietnam Conflict show that the great majority of torso and extremity wounds were attributable to the damage due to the permanent cavity alone." -- Fackler -- 6 "The nondeforming rifle bullet of the AK-74 causes a large temporary cavity which can cause marked disruption in some tissue (liver), but has far less effect in others (muscle, lung, bowel wall)." -- Fackler -- 7 "A large slow projectile will crush (permanent cavity) a large amount of tissue, whereas a small fast missile with the same kinetic energy will stretch more tissue (temporary cavity) but crush little. If the tissue crushed by a projectile includes the wall of the aorta, far more damaging consequences are likely to result than if this same projectile "deposits" the same amount of energy beside this vessel." -- Fackler -- 7 "By definition, no tissue is included "in" the temporary cavity: tissue is pushed aside by it." -- Fackler -- 14 As impressive as temporary cavitation looks in ballistic gel shot at 2000 frames per second, it's not what's going to kill you unless you die of liver damage. Eventually. At some point in the future. If you don't see a doctor...maybe. Anyway, to sum it up, it's the dark part of those diagrams that determines how deadly the bullet is, not the outlined and dashed part. That part just tells you how much it hurts to get shot by one. @Ravenger97 ... No.

Doublepost!

Arma II's physics and interaction systems are very good (although claims that no one else has leaning or free look is nonsense). Arma II's movement, inventory, and damage systems are bad and they should feel bad and the devs should feel bad. Oh, you have a pistol? Guess you can't check your inventory without taking a knee. Oh, you have a pistol? Yeah, you can't put that thing away. Oh, you have a pistol? You thought you could kill someone with that? Oh, you were running 3 minutes ago and now you want to go prone? Well, let's just give you a running start. Oh, you want to salute? I suggest you stand up first so you can keep your balance. Oh, you want to move a gun to your backpack? How about we put all of the ammo in there for you...oh, you wanted the gun too? Well, it's gone, but at least we put the ammo in before figuring out if you had room to put the gun in! Oh, you want to throw this object? Well, don't hold it to charge, just aim really high and wait for 10 seconds while you animate a glass throwing motion. Oh, you want to lower your weapon? Well, you can't do that prone...stand up first and THEN we'll let you point your rifle away from the thing directly in front of you. Oh, you want to use a flashlight? Let me think about that...mmm, nope, give me some more time...no, not now...okay, maybe...no...no....okay, now you can use your flashlight. But as long as you never want to do anything from prone or do anything that is not shooting someone in the face, Arma II is effective.