I can't decide what's worse - Ozelot's insistence that his stance is the only, 100% correct stance - or the fact that people are honestly going to argue with him. You're all arguing about a product that hasn't come out yet, that has unproven attributes. Is KOS going to happen? Yep. Is it going to happen with the same frequency that it does now? NONE OF YOU KNOW. Literally not one person here can say definitively one way or another what's going to happen until we get the SA, and can see what's actually going to happen. Having these arguments is seriously like pissing up a rope, and all of you really ought to find something better to engage in.

I care less than all of you care. This is is the most inane, asinine argument ever. All of you, seriously.

Again, you're trying to punish players for playing a particular way. This will not encourage players to stay, in fact, it'll do the opposite. The trick to 'discouraging' this type of play is to ENCOURAGE other types of play by making them appealing. Right now, working together with strangers just doesn't plain make sense, because there's a fairly high chance of betrayal.

I think before you start penalizing people for player killing, you need to work on creating real, tangible reasons for working together. Penalizing a particular style of play because it runs counter to your preferred playstyle isn't very sandbox oriented at all - and bandit skins are just that - a penalty. The fact that they're extremely arbitrary ( Guy shoots a few survivors in self defense, gets a bandit skin ) only further proves that the system is inherently flawed and shouldn't be utilized. If team play were more actively encouraged through in game incentives, the mass PvP environment would naturally decrease. Right now, there's just not a lot else to DO in this game aside from killing other players, is there? Repairing vehicles and amassing piles of loot in your tents gets old after a while, I think almost everyone can agree on this. There's no real base building, there's no real effective way to trade aside from dropping stuff on the ground, and there's no real 'end game' for people that don't want to participate in deathmatch.

The fact of the matter is that many, many people are doing this already - by that I mean banning people for possessing hacked in weapons. I highly doubt that they're going to suddenly 'start' implementing the blacklistings that all these forum posters keep raving about, so I don't think this topic merits further discussion. The 'rules' ( as the advocates of this behavior call it ) are very loose and don't explicitly say that possessing a hacked in weapon is legal, just that it isn't global ban worthy. As far as I'm concerned, until that's further clarified, it's mighty hard for these advocates to really get a server blacklisted for trying to keep their turf clean.

The fact that people 'continue' to argue semantics on this is beyond me. Answer me this: If a server admin told you to get rid of an AS50 TWS in your possession, would you comply or tell them to kick rocks?

I think global banning is a little harsh - until you find a way to inhibit these sorts of weapons from showing up in the game entirely. At that point, the hive should do a wipe, and at that point you can begin banning for possessing these items. Right now, the fact that scenario 1 CAN happen is enough reason to not be doling out global bans to anyone. However - I don't think there's anything wrong with server admins issuing warnings to people who they catch using these weapons on their server, and locally banning them if they disregard said warnings. The age old excuse of 'They just found it, and that isn't against the rules' doesn't wash with me. An AS50 TWS is 'extremely' overpowered on a night server, and servers shouldn't have to sit there and subject themselves to idiots using them just because they didn't spawn it on their particular server. So ya, I think warnings and eventual bans are about as far as I'd go right now, even knowing that 90% of the people walking around with these weapons know full well that it's a hacked in weapon. So for now, I'm not going to vote because I think the choices are a little too limited. And hey, can you get one of these threads locked? Probably the one without a poll.

Sounds like this needs a lock, Fox.

Half true. While stuff like aim mods and wallhacks might exist in most FPS titles, you don't see whole servers getting nuked, thunderdomes, that sort of stuff in other titles. 'That' sort of stuff is preventable on most other engines. It's not DayZ, it's really Arma that's got too much of a trusting engine that allows this sort of thing to happen. It's not that absurd for players to be fuming about the rampant hacking in a game that's this many years old. It's just getting attention now because DayZ has made the game popular.

It's great that you want to staunchly defend Urbanfox, Venthos. Really. He's a grown man though, and I think he can speak for himself - as you even said, you don't need to put words into his mouth. So don't. Here's the thing. His title is this: "Community Support". That doesn't say "Guy who doesn't have to put up with your lack of reading skills". Did this guy do due diligence? Nah, he didn't - he could have found most of this information without really putting forth any real effort at all. But for whatever reason, whether ignorance, stupidity, or sheer laziness, he didn't. I don't know why he didn't, and neither do you. Regardless, Urbanfox has been put into a Community Support role, and whether it's volunteer or otherwise literally does not matter. He's been given a share of responsibility on here, and whether he or anyone else believes it or not, he is representative of the project at hand. How much harder would it have been to simply change his tone to something a little less negative and come at this from a helpful, if stern, perspective? I was pretty much on board with his points ( aside from his tone, which I thought was excessive - but that's my opinion ) until he started delving into the guy's employer. To drop that onto public forums like that is just unnecessary, and it's unprofessional. If he really felt he needed to interject that bit of information, it should have gone to private messages. I don't care how dumb the OP is, breaching that sort of information that was disclosed on a private application is wrong, period. The fact that you're continuing to speculate on the nature of this guy's potential server without any real information just leads me to believe you've already cashed your chips in though. You've decided this dude's a moron, and you'll rail against him ad infinitum until this thread is dead. That's unfortunate, because all of this could have been easily avoided had there just been some civil discourse and a final 'Look, this is the way it is, I can't help you, sorry'.

I eagerly await to see Wells 'have' this server. My money says it won't happen.

See, I'd be perfectly ok with you lashing out like this if: 1 ) You hadn't made the thread 2 ) you called everyone full of 'bullshit' if they had accomplished what you said was impossible. You invited this on yourself, friend. Next time, try posing a question rather than a declarative statement when you admit that you still have 'stuff to learn'.

How do you say 'you are a snitch rat' and then say that there is no allegiance or insinuated trust between group members in the same paragraph? Does your head not explode?

Forget all of that, trying to compare this game to actual, real life experience is not only ridiculous, it's impossible. We're not in an apocalypse. And even then, yes, we'd all act differently there then we do in a video game without any actual consequences. The 'survival' aspect of the game you guys continue to tout doesn't last beyond day 2 for any player with a grasp of common sense and awareness of his surroundings. After that, the only thing left to do is find vehicles, and kill other players. Most people at this point have already tooled around with vehicles, made camps, etc. What else would you want these players to do?

Again, you're applying real life behavior to a videogame. That's insane. PvP is part and parcel of the game. Anyone not specifically in my clan, i shoot. That doesn't mean im a bad person, it means I'm playing the game the way I choose to, and it makes sense for me to be kos to anyone I don't know. Grow up and discuss this in a civil tone or don't discuss it at all, boy.

I love this, so anybody who engages in a KoS policy ( because it's honestly the safest way to play ) is immediately a maniac in real life. You realize how absolutely insane you sound, right? You're aware it is - indeed - just a game?

This really just smacks of someone with sour grapes who knows how to write, rather than just smash his keyboard raging. I mean, if the game's not for you, great. A lot of us still really enjoy it, flaws and all. Why waste your time posting something with no real point other than 'I hate this game, I'm quitting'?

Welp, thanks for posting misinformation. This is absolutely the right place to post what he's posted, and he's perfectly within his rights to post here. The team DOES read these, and they frequently issue blacklist spots to people who don't follow the administration rules. Please do some research before spreading lies.

Hey, before you guys recruit this 16 year old guy, check out his little thread here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/76994-us-352-elektro-shooter/

Way to combat log, buddy. Great story.

Let's please keep this on topic, guys. We're not discussing individual players here, but rather the lack of control server admins have to police your servers. If you've got quarrels with other admins or players, please create or post in a different thread. Thank you.

Well, first of all, my server's NOT getting blacklisted. We 'have' followed the rules, mostly because the fear of being blacklisted is very real, even in the face of the hacking that we daily endure. I just walked up onto yet another crate of weapons in the woods outside of one of our cities. I can't do a bloody thing about it aside from restarting the server - that's very frustrating. I'm sure you're not speaking directly to me when you're saying things like people bitching and the like. I'm not bitching - I'm remarking about a situation and how I'm confused as to the direction the mod is going. That's not an unreasonable request, and it's not QQing. At every possible turn, I've been courteous and respectful, even in the face of people telling me to 'just stfu and go away' or other less than kind things. Telling people to 'just go ahead and leave, there's more where you came from' isn't solving any issues, it's just continuing the cycle of mistrust, anger, and entitlement that everyone in this argument seems to generate. The people who are really here for the long haul, the guys who are running servers legitimately and REALLY want to make good things happen, we know that Rocket isn't some sort of sadist that delights in tormenting others by forcing them to be subjected to hacking nonsense. This is an engine, and ultimately, a Battleye problem that should have been addressed long before DayZ's inception. But removing access to logs that were extremely helpful in tracking and eliminating hackers is counterproductive and, in my opinion, moving in the wrong direction. The expectations placed on admins is already much higher than most AAA titles ( you could literally get away with murder admin'ing a BF3 server ). To me, this is a good thing. It is an attempt to keep people honest, and I highly approve. However, unless the hive system is going to come under a server administration entirely run by the DayZ team, then admins should have the ability to police their own servers. Right now, we simply don't, and Battleye certainly isn't picking up the slack any better than they were months ago, contrary to their ticker messages that say otherwise. People are still getting thunderdomed, people are still spawning helicopters at will, and people are still teleporting around the map with a frequency that can only be described as mind boggling. I do agree with you that people need to stop the chatter about shutting down their servers. If you're going to shut it down, just do it and be done with it. I'm here because I want to be here, and I want to try to be part of the solution, not the problem. Sometimes, being part of the solution means voicing an opinion that may run against the common grain. Doing it with decency, respect for one's dissenters, and an overall sense of community is what will generate discussion, rather than arguing.

Incorrect. You can kick them with a polite message ( I usually just say 'Please change your name, then come back. ) and nobody is going to say boo to you about it. I kick anyone with the name Admin, Owner, Administrator, or anything that may give new players the impression that the player is anything but just another player.

Some of us are actually advocating for change ( or at least understanding ) here, rather than just throwing up our hands and quitting. If you've shuttered your server, that's fine and absolutely your right. Those of us who continue to host do so because we still believe in the spirit of this mod, even if we're not entirely pleased with the current direction of development. If you don't like reading the 'QQ' threads as you call them, I have a solution for you: Close your internet browser.

My issue isn't that I don't think the developers are doing nothing. I'm sure they are, they evidently understand this is an issue from what other admins and moderators on these forums have said. I don't see any reason why these people would lie. The problem is that at every developmental turn, the admins have been castigated into virtual landlords without any control over their renters. While yes, we technically CAN ban hackers, we need a significant amount of evidence acquired in order to do this. At this current stage of development, it basically requires me to personally witness the event in question, screencap it or record it, and then ban the individual. I don't have to tell anyone here how impossible of a task this is. The burden of evidence lies entirely on us, and we're basically at the mercy of the hackers in hopes that they screw up and hack openly and reveal themselves so we can know exactly who it is. On a crowded 30-40 man server, it can take quite a while to narrow down the list of potentials to the person who is actually doing the hacking - nevermind if he's using a battleye bypass. And what if we admins are offline at the time of the alleged incident? The RPT file was a wealth of resource for an admin to be able to isolate cheating individuals, ban them, and collect sufficient evidence to substantiate the ban. Yes, individuals were able to abuse the file, but until an alternative is found that effectively gives admins the ability to fight back, why remove the only tool we have? Now we're left in a situation where we can do essentially nothing to stop the hacker threat at all. I share Curgon's optimism that the development staff is working on the issue. I just feel that the server owners do deserve to hear the developers side of things from them - not from forum admins or moderators - so that we all get a better understanding of the development philosophy, what tools are going to be given to admins, and what the direction they're going with combatting these hackers. I don't need specifics, even the most general of posts would at least show that we're communicating. Given the fact that there's a litany of posts in Server General with people claiming they're shuttering their servers, venting frustration and ones that just outright spew profanity at the way we've been effectively neutered in the face of this ongoing problem, I think it only fair that we get some sort of dialogue going with the development team. Curgon, why not nominate three of four server admins to have either a stream session or a teleconference where we could discuss the mod's direction for the admin side of the house? I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I REALLY want this mod to continue in a successful direction. Right now, a lot of us are very concerned and would like to have a real dialogue with the Dev team, that's all.