Totally agreed. If you risk nothing, you gain nothing, I've found. If you're bored, it's likely because you're playing it's safe and never take any risks in game. Helping out randoms is interesting too. I've met quite a few decent folk just because I was willing to help them in a jam..also gotten almost killed over it a few times as well. But the bottom point Momiji made is the kicker: if you're really bored, it's likely stemming from who you're playing with.

So you're talking about actively discouraging a particular behavior that isn't an exploit or cheating. How is that not a punishment, exactly? To clarify, I'm not one of these mass murderers. I've been shot/killed by them before. To me, having these sorts of players in the game adds to the level of paranoia that we all experience during play. I ENJOY that feeling, and I don't want it robbed from me because somebody is mad that they keep walking into Cherno and getting shot. I understand that you don't LIKE that particular behavior and you may even think that it's detrimental to the game as a whole, but what you're advocating IS a punishment. Call a spade a spade, at least. If you want to advocate punishments, fine, but don't try to color them as something other than what they are. I'm even ok with providing players incentives to work together - I just don't want there to be consequences that completely wipe out this particular brand of banditry. It creates a more tense atmosphere and in my opinion, adds to the game as a whole. Trust is a tenuous thing and it should continue to be as such.

I'm all for making things challenging - I'm just not for changes that make a style of play so unfun that it's not worth doing at all.

First of all, it's not getting to me. I've been very calm and civil through this entire thread. Not once have I been the source of 'I know what Rocket wants'. I'm merely going off of the information he has put out - and so far, Rocket's been pretty consistent in his vision. If you can show me certifiable evidence to show that he's really flip flopped a lot, please do. I don't think he has, however. So let's get off the 'nobody knows what Rocket wants' bandwagon, because he's been pretty open and talkative about what he does 'not' want to do, which is limit players ability to choose. This thread, and many like it, are advocating one thing: punishing bandits. At no time has Rocket ever deviated from his position that banditry should be stamped out of existance via in game constraints. It just seems silly to me for players to rail against something that very clearly is here to stay. I really think people should wait until the humanity system is unveiled, and then begin this nonstop deluge of suggestions on how to legislate banditry out of this game.

Thats the playerbase 'forcing' you into that mindset though, not the game. That's the difference, Vylent. I don't think you've got a 'better grasp on game design', I just think that your vision doesn't match Rocket's vision, and that conflict is really bugging you. I understand your frustration, but this is his game, not yours, unfortunately. You obviously don't like the player kill portion of this game, especially in it's current state. That's your opinion and you're totally valid to have it. But that doesn't mean that the game should change mechanics to accomodate your line of thinking, and I don't think it's going to.

I think you're missing the point, friend. Why are you insistent on punishing players who want to player kill? You do understand this mentality runs directly counter to Rocket's vision, yes?

Now see, this doesn't need to degenerate down to insults because you both disagree. Good grief. Even random killing of people for sport has it's place in this game, guys. Rocket wants the players to make their own, in game solutions to these sorts of issues - he's not going to hard code the game to discourage a specific style of play. He's already said this multiple times.

Deleting potential loot drops is a punishment, no matter how you slice it. I appreciate that you're trying to paint a brush of realism across it, but that argument is invalid. What if I shoot him once in the head? All of his gear should be intact then, right? If you decide to rob somebody, it should be because you CHOOSE to, not because the game is forcing you by making it the more efficient way.

Why exactly does there need to be a 'balance', again? The balance is going to come in the order of humanity, when the system is released. Arguably, robbing someone will have little to no effect on your humanity, whereas murdering someone will.

I haven't had people d/c AFTER I've killed them, actually. I've wounded people who've then DCed, sure.

This. If and when I need to rob somebody, I'm taking a calculated risk as it is. If I put myself in harms way and you alt-f4 out, I've exposed myself and gotten nothing to show for it. Once that's fixed, I'll be perfectly ok with robbing someone at gunpoint rather than just blasting them.

Quit multiposting, and get in the right forum for your complaint.

I guess here's my thing with this kind of mentality: You obviously want some sort of PvP element to the game, but you want the PvP to be on your terms. Well, that's not what this game has ever advertised. In fact, quite the opposite: Rocket has essentially encouraged any sort of bandit behavior, up to and including killing noobs for 'sport'. I don't engage in this sort of activity because it can be dangerous, and I don't like putting myself in harm's way unless there's tangible benefit. Some players don't see it this way, and that is totally up to them. Regardless of what Rocket does to this game, short of hardcoding some sort of PvE system ( which will never happen ), there will always be these sorts of instances occurring in game. Betrayal, murder, and deceit are all part and parcel of the DayZ experience. Trusting someone can lead to great things, or it can lead to your own demise. That unknown factor - that paranoia that permeates the game - that's what makes this game what it is. Without it, the game is essentially meaningless. I 'do' understand your frustration, however. I think patience is the key here: the humanity system is going to provide players with a REASON to group. As it stands right now, grouping with strangers is far, far too dangerous - you're far better off murdering someone than you are placing your life in their hands. It's the unfortunate, bitter truth of the DayZ landscape as it stands right now. Many people are enjoying the system just as it stands right now - without murdering everyone in Cherno, too. So getting back to the point of all this - you claim to understand that assholes shooting you in the back is 'part of the game', but then claim it 'isn't fun to be the victim'. Well, no shit, man. Nobody likes dying in this 'anti-game' as it's called. If you're getting rolled up in Cherno over and over, it's probably time to consider perusing these forums and finding a group of people you can team up with, because you aren't ready to play the game solo. This game isn't going to conform to your method of thinking, so I think your best bet is to either adapt, or to simply find something else to play. Don't take what I'm saying as an attack - I genuinely mean what I say. For some people, DayZ may simply just not be the game for them.

I think Zipper hit the nail on the head. I'm all for some very passive, nice advantages to grouping, sure - but this is extremely over the top. Banditry is supposed to be part of the game, and it has been encouraged by Rocket. He's explicitly said in the past that if you don't like it, 'do something about it'. Plenty of people who don't kill noobs in Cherno are already doing just this. You have to remove yourself from the mindset that Bandits are 'playing the game wrong' or 'ruining the game'. They're not. Bandits are a necessary part of this game that makes the game what it is. To disenfranchise that part of the playerbase would completely undermine what this 'anti-game' has set out to do. I think the only thing I would be ok with is having some sort of grouping system that would allow you to better coordinate with people you have grouped with ( and even this would have to stand up to significant scrutiny ). The radio system Rocket has discussed in the past promises something close to this effect. The bottom line is that you're ultimately going to force players to play a certain way in order to get the items you mentioned, or they'll be at a significant disadvantage to the rest of the playerbase. That's not a good way to make this game feel like a sandbox at all.

I've just quoted a few of your posts in this thread to illustrate my point. You've posted two suggestions, both of which I feel like are unnecessary to the continuing success of this game. Rocket has already stated that the humanity system is in the works and that he is looking for more incentives to encourage team play. No matter how you look at your suggestion, it isn't an incentive. It's a negative. Negative consequences don't generate fun, they generate frustration, more often than not. The reason why banditry is so rampant in the game as it stands is that there's little INCENTIVE to group. Beyond all that though, you acted like a complete tool in this entire thread. Instead of addressing people's points, utilizing your communication skills and eloquently defending your position, you resorted to name calling, sarcasm, and all around assholery. In fact, your attitude indicates you're no better than the 'dickhead snipers' that you so ardently complain about. In the future, I hope when you pose a suggestion, you welcome both praise and criticism, rather than venting angrily like a petulant teenager. It made 'you' look like the fool in this thread, and everyone almost immediately discounted anything you had to say, rather than possibly gaining something informative and useful here.