jonahcutter

So end-game content is finding the l33test weapon? Sorta like... WoW.

They likely won't be able to build a morality system into the game that actually functions well. The current system is really just a faction system. Grind points in a faction and get a skin as reward. Now, if they create a advantage/need for players to not kill each other that is as strong as the current advantage/need for player to kill each other, this mod might actually become as innovative as it thinks it is. Right now there is no significant threat to players except other players, so there is no need for strangers to not kill each other immediately. Survival needs in this "post-apocalyptic" game are practically non-existent, outside of needing superior weaponry to fight other players. When/if the gameplay becomes about basic survival against all the forces of the apocalypse, instead of just "gearing up" so you enjoy a weaponry advantage over other players, then players will have motivation to not kill each other on sight. DAyZ mimics a sandbox, but is truly just a very slow-paced deathmatch. The immense size of the map slows down the deathmatch gameplay significantly, masking the reality that we're all just basically running from weapon spawn to weapon spawn looking for the most advantageous weapon to kill other players with. It has almost nothing to do with any actual post-apocalyptic survival gameplay. The mechanics in the game that are about basic survival (anything from hunger to the zeds themselves) are inconsequential window-dressing.

There's no actual reason in the mod for players to interact with each other outside of shooting each other. There is no morality system they can create that will "fix" this. The simple fact is, players are not killing each other for survival reasons. They are killing each other for entertainment. Strangers in this game don't NEED each other in any way. If the mod created a need for players to interact with each other outside of killing each other for entertainment, DayZ would be potentially as revolutionary as it pretends to be.

There's a lot of bugs, which turns off a lot of people. There's a lot of realization that the mod has almost nothing to actually do with zombie-survival, which turns off a lot more.

The mod is about gearing up. Finding phat lewt to fight other players over phatter lewt. Same basic construct as most other loot-based mmo's. The progression is just sped up a lot. You can get multiple banks to store multiple sets of gear to greatly minimize the pain and fear of death, by eliminating having to start over again at zero. There's even faction-grinding. You can grind the Bandit, or the Hero, faction and get a cool new tabard to show off... oops, I mean a cool new skin.

Lol I'm trying to figure out what's worse. The length of the post, or the condescending attitude in the post. p.s. Tents are a highly carebear, mainstream-mmo mechanic in a game that promotes itself as innovative, cruel and difficult.

I know. I was making the point that there are tiers of loot in DayZ. Glad we agree. :)

Much more crafting of food and drink itself. Respawning food inside of stores is pretty gamey. Finding cans of food should be much more rare. Crafting medicine. Reloading ammo casings (this would require ammo actually be scarce). Gunsmithing to repair worn out weapons (would require weapons have a durability system). Repairing clothing and backpacks.

A bullet is a bullet true. But a Winchester is not a DMR. There are tiers of loot in DayZ.

Duping isn't a gameplay issue. It's a bug that (hopefully) will be fixed. It's not a design choice by the devs though. Tents are.

I enjoyed WoW a lot, in the first year. It was great exploration and the pvp was fun as hell that first year. I loved STALKER with the Redux mod. If you weren't properly prepared before heading into the last couple levels, and managed your resources well, you could find yourself starving to death and facing impassable levels of radiation. DayZ prides itself on being an "anti-game". Yet it quickly falls into the same gameplay as many other mainstream games. It is interesting to see how the mind virus of "gearing up" as gameplay, of purple fever, is even carried over into games that pride themselves on thinking outside the box. As far as tents... tents remove much of the fear of death. They remove the pain of death. For a mod that has stated it wants to be cruelly difficult, this is directly counter to its own intentions. Again, I chalk it up to the way we as gamers are programmed to think. Even devs who are intent on creating an original experience easily fall into thinking very much like mainstream devs: What do we do when players don't like losing their loot when they die? Answer: Tents! Of course, it's the wrong question to be asking. The devs should be asking: Does this proposed mechanic mitigate the pain of death? If so, why the hell would we want to do that? When someone complains about losing their loot through death and having to start all over again at zero, I'd think these devs would smile to themselves and say "mission accomplished". Instead, they've decided to hold players' hands and make it easier on them by using the mainstream approach of providing players with a bank. Tents should wipe as soon as you die. They should not allow you to re-gear after death. Death should mean something.

Tents are a very very carebear mechanic in a mod that prides itself on being cruelly difficult. Even without item duping and tents, survival supplies and ammo are extremely easy to come by. It is not difficult at all to quickly be walking away from food, drink and ammo because you simply cannot carry it all. Are the devs happy with the survival aspect of the mod basically being an inconsequential hoop to jump through? And the Zeds themselves little more than a nuisance? Were the devs intending to make a small-squad, mil-sim pvp mod about camping l33t weapon spawns and assembling vehicles? Because for all the philosophizing about creating freedom, that is what the mod currently is. Right now, DayZ is about "gearing up". And "gearing up" as gameplay is mainstream mmo gameplay. It's pure WoW. Doesn't matter if it happens in an open-world environment or not. The mod starts out strong, immersing players in intense, choice-based gameplay and moment-to-moment survival. But it fails to sustain that. It falls apart. The "choices" rapidly devolve into watered-down ArmA pvping over weapon spawns. Or just sniping (and counter-sniping) for shits and giggles. The fetish for military hardware and the inside-the-box thinking of "gearing up" as gameplay, along with being able to save gear through death with tents, are core design elements that are counter to the stated purpose of the mod.

The mod being in alpha not an argument. It is reality. This mod is in alpha. Playing it in alpha is first, last and always about testing. If you want to ignore that reality, that's your prerogative.

Skins and tags aren't much of a consequence when players who are intent on kosing can do so from hundreds of yards away, and outside any legit threat from the zeds. It's an effort to address a legit issue. Maybe it will succeed. But as Rocket points out himself, devs with far more resources than him don't do it because it's difficult and expensive. Now maybe Rocket can overcome this. I don't put it past anyone to evidence ingenuity. The flip side of this is, I also never put it past a playerbase to find new and creative ways to exploit just about any game mechanic in ways the devs never imagined. The ultimate problem with KOSing is the KOSer suffers no potential immediate negative consequences. Military-grade, long-range, high-rof of fire weapons with lots of ammo means the zeds, the thing that should be the great equalizer, are little more than a nuisance.

You kinda look like a leper in this photo.

LeBron James.

Never, so long as ammo is so plentiful and zombies are so little of a threat.

DayZ is not a zombie-survival simulator. It has the window dressing of zombie-survival as a hook. Zombie-survival is the window dressing to draw players in. But the gameplay focus of the mod is: sorta-persistent-world deathmatch on an enormous map. The zombie-survival aspect rapidly becomes a hoop to jump through so you can pvp over l33t weapon spawns and vehicles. The pvp itself is fun. But that's just the base ArmA pvp at work.

There is little reason for players to interact with each other outside of shooting each other. Supplies, weapons and ammo are abundant, and the zombies are a nuisance at best.

If you like the tactical flavor of pvp in DayZ, you'll like the base game of ArmA even more. As far as realistic, tactical pvp goes, it can't be matched. DayZ's pvp is something of a watered-down version of it.

You're almost there, but not quite, in your thinking. Let me help... DayZ isn't about surviving a zombie apocalypse. Both the "survival" and zombie aspects quickly become easy to the point of being a simple hoop to jump through. A nuisance at best. DayZ is actually a sorta-persistent-world, watered-down ArmA where the main thrust of the game is to gather the best weapons, and to gather materials to assemble vehicles. And to raid each others' camps for those weapons and vehicles. That is the design path it currently is following. That gameplay can be fun in itself. But it is not zombie-survival in the slightest. "Zombie-survival" is the hook. It's window dressing that draws players in. Once you spend a week or so learning to play, the zombie-survival mechanics are barely a factor. You have to willfully play poorly, or refuse to learn, to continue to be at risk of hunger, thirst, disease or exposure, much less the zombies themselves. There has been much philosophizing about DayZ. It is mostly hogwash. It's a mod that is about trying to get the most powerful weapons and mounts. You can not do these things, and deliberately play as a weaker character, and be farmed (for gear or kicks) by those who min/max, if you wish. But that is not unique to DayZ. You can do that in just about any online, competitive game. You may find worth in that, but make no doubt, you are deliberately limiting yourself so as to provide targets for players who are not limiting themselves whatsoever. The thing that really makes DayZ special, those first few desperate hours/days when you are fighting for immediate survival against zombies and other men, scrambling for a simple can of beans or a soda, and the holy grail of a pistol with ammo, quickly falls apart after a few play-throughs. That game could be magical, if it was sustained. But currently it is not. It starts out strong, and rapidly falls apart.

You have to deliberately try to starve to death in this mod. After the first week of learning how to play, I've been walking away from food and water because I couldn't carry it all. Same with weapons. And the zeds are nothing more than a nuisance. The zombie-survival mechanics fall apart as soon as you learn how to play. You have to willfully play badly, or refuse to learn, to be in danger of dying from hunger or thirst. And you have to pretend you don't know that as long as you sprint a zombie cannot hurt you, to be in danger from them. As far as the quality of the pvp... welp.. that's just base ArmA pvp at work. Not much to do with the mod itself really. And camping for l33t weapons? Seems very run-of-the-mill mmo type gameplay.

When I realized that as long as I sprint, I will never die to a zombie.

Seems like an unimaginative, carebear approach to the issue. Making people visually obvious as friend or foe is straight out of any mainstream, handholding, themepark mmo. It basically lessens the intense choice-making in the mod. When you approach other players and have to take chances on their intentions. ( Of course, once you learn the mechanics of the mod, there's almost no reason to actually approach other players. There's no actual need to team up or work together. There's no reason to trade resources. Weapons, ammo and supplies are plentiful, and zeds are no more than a nuisance.) And I doubt it will fix the issue it is trying to address. Bandit skins sure as hell won't do a single thing to lessen the people who are intent on KOSing from opening up at you from mid/long range. That's where the real problem lay.

Curious as to what experienced players have to say. The zeds will take many a noob life, no doubt. Now more than ever since we spawn without a weapon, and the mod is enjoying an enormous influx of new players who are learning the mechanics. The initial learning curve is definitely steep. Is the mid/endgame about zombie apocalypse though? Or something else? Once you learn the very minimum basics (where to find an axe/how to equip it), are the zeds anything more than a nuisance?