jonahcutter

This is just the base ArmA game at work.

mmm... I think you might need over that

I read this: And then I read this: lulz

Interesting.

Are the zombies actually dangerous to anyone beyond noobs?

I was inside the store in Cherno, and had position on those entering. I heard a helicopter engine, and then the helicopter fell into the building blowing it up and killing me. I dunno!

lol

The problem is, the mod in its current form does not come close yet to creating the absolutely desperate conditions to engender such large-scale, sociopath behavior. It's pretty easy in the mod, once you learn spawn locations, to kit yourself up pretty good. Food, drink, basic weapons, lots of ammo are pretty easy to come by once you learn the basics. Hell, once you get a hatchet and matches and a canteen, you literally have no reason to kill anyone. With those three items, you have zero reason to kill other players for survival. You don't even need the bigger backpacks or other "luxuries" (which are easy to come by anyway, my last toon eneded up walking away from probably almost a dozen Alice packs because I already had one). There is no reason currently in the mod to take things to such desperate extremes as you describe. So it boils down to camping for l33t weapons, and basic indiscriminate murder without consequence (deathmatching). If this mod wants to be something special, and move beyond being a noob-trap for deathmatchers to hunt (with zombies as the hook), it needs to create those desperate conditions for everyone: survivor and bandit. Make the mod harder, and equally hard, for everyone. It can't do what it currently is doing: making things more difficult for survivors and easy for bandits/murderes.

The pvp you're describing as "truly exhilarating" is the basic ArmA game. It has nothing to do with any mod. It's inherent to the gameplay of the core game. You'll get the same (or far better) exhilarating pvp playing the base game, as pvping at the northern airfield in DayZ.

Sums it up pretty well. And highlights why vigilantism won't ever come close to addressing the issue. When you say "well go out and do something about it", you're telling non-min/maxers to spend even more time outplaying min/maxers. Anyone who has even a bit of game experience will do well to not outright laugh in the face of whoever suggests that. The inherent problem is murdering others on sight has no potential immediate, nor potential longterm, downside. Playing as a non-kos survivor has an enormous, tangible and immediate downside. When game mechanics start putting the same pressure on kos players as it does on on survivor players, then we'll have something special.

I think you're way off base by disabling pvp. The interplay between desperate players is at the heart of what makes this mod potentially something special. That not konwing what will happen when you encounter other players are some of the best moments in the mod. Bandits don't face that unknown right now. They already know they'll kill someone, at long as range as possible, with almost no downside, before they even see the target. The problem isn't pvp. It's the type of pvp.

Bandits don't need to be punished at all. They do need to face the same intense level of difficulty in decision-making that survivors currently do. They do not at the moment, and thus have it far far easier.

Wrong. You'd have cqb-based pvp. The pvp would be more intense than ever really, because of the risk of zed aggro to everyone involved. Who said anything about taking pvp out?

Absolutely. If that sniper had to actually approach his target and engage him in cqb, it would be far superior. Then the sniper would actually be at risk too. Risk from being detected by his target. Risk from drawing zed aggro when he opens up. There is little risk from sniping from a bush hundreds of meters away and well outside zed aggro. And if that bandit could potentially destroy the equipment his target is carrying with each shot, well now the bandit faces a more difficult decision doesn't he? Similar to the difficult decisions survivors face themselves all the time: To shoot or not to shoot. Perhaps it makes more sense to try and rob his target, or trick him out of his gear. There is no question that pvp needs to remain a central pillar in the mod. I would have zero interest in playing this mod without non-consensual pvp or if it has safe zones. It's the TYPE of pvp, and what you risk by instigating it or not, that will make the mod something special... or not.

I had an idea about this very thing: Possessions on players who are shot and/or killed by gunfire all have a 50% chance per bullet per item to be destroyed. Thus, just outright murdering someone for their gear becomes a crapshoot. You may end up destroying the very thing you wanted. Which raises the stakes. Robbing someone instead of outright murdering them is riskier yes, but it also has a higher potential payoff in that you won't damage anything. it's kind of gamey, sure. But it's also a mechanic that adds to the complexity of gameplay for everyone. It puts difficult decision-making in high-intensity situations on bandit shoulders too. Right now, only survivors have to make lightening-fast, difficult decisions. Bandits have it easy. They know it's far more efficient to just outright murder someone, which they know they will do in advance of every situation.

Easy mate. If my opinion got under your skin so much, take a breath and step back a bit. No need to lose your shit so easily. I'd say if you like to collect powerful weapons, go play WoW. ;) If you want to play sniper vs sniper, go play basic ArmA. It does it far better. And yes, I am outright stating that the intense interest in this mod is not at all because players can snipe each other over weapon spawns. I'm stating that because it's painfully obvious considering how much intense interest in zombie survival there is in mass culture currently. Surely you're not trying to say that the zeds aren't the single most important element in this mod? And if you agree that they are (how could anyone not?), then surely you're not trying to say that anything that trivializes them is bad for the mod? And in its current form, assault rifles, scopes, and silencers largely trivialize the zeds. That's pretty obvious to anyone who has played for a bit. Again, take the zombies out and this mod would be lucky to get into the triple digits in players. Take the scopes and assault rifles out and I would guess the interest would be just about as intense. I would have zero interest in this mod if there were safe zones, or non-consensual pvp was removed. But the type of pvp, and how it plays out within a zombie-survival framework, is key to how well it makes the mod function.

No, you are right. It is currently far far easier to play as a bandit than as a survivor. Survivors have to constantly make extremely difficult choices very quickly, when engaging with other players. Bandits do not at all. They make one choice when they log in and then it's basically pretty easy for them outside of the shooting itself. And they always have the advantage in that they'll always choose to shoot first. Currently there are no mechanics in place to make playing as a bandit as difficult as playing as a survivor. It's far easier and far more efficient to farm both spawns AND other players. There is almost no downside to playing as a bandit. There are no tangible, negative repercussions in either short nor long term. To me, that is the flaw in the system. The greatest strength of the mod, the intense choices about interacting with other players in a zombie-infested environment, becomes largely irrelevant if you make the decision to simply kill all other players.

Yeah I agree ammo is pretty easy to accumulate for even the basic weapons, once you learn where to look for it. I'm walking away from ammo for weapons I'm carrying because my pack is too full. As far as military hardware, I disagree. I guarantee you that if there is even a single vastly superior weapon in the mod, teams/guilds will camp the spawns and hoard multiples of it. They'll set up a schedule to do it. The mod will become about getting THAT weapon. Any weapon that trivializes the zeds should be looked at with serious consideration of being removed. The mod is about zombie survival first and foremost. Well, I hope it is.

You've hit on what I think is a major flaw in the focus of the mod: Encouraging players to gear up with l33t weapons. Scopes and assault rifles and silenced weapons aren't what makes the mod special. The zeds and survival systems are. What's the purpose of assembling a helicopter? Why waste development time and energy on something like that in a mod that is supposed to be about zombie survival. I'd love to see a version of this mod with all the military grade hardware stripped out. Make the pvp happen in close quarters. Melee, pistols and shotguns. Create tiers of food and drink. Most of it so bad it makes you sick. Almost none actually heals you. Make military bases places of extremely limited, but high quality food and medicine. MREs are why we scour military bases because they're nutritious and don't spoil as easily. Realize that tents and potentially secure bases allow players to accumulate several sets of gear and thus trivialize dying. Spend time and energy on developing the survival systems of the mod. The food, drink, health, disease, and always most importantly the zombie, systems. This mod has garnered immense interest, because of zombie survival, not because of snipers camping l33t weapon spawns. Creating mmo/WoW-style purple-fever in players to accumulate l33t gear trivializes zeds. Players can engage in pvp from outside zed aggro. If they get aggro, the firepower makes the zeds largely irrelevant. Sniper rifles, silenced weapons and ghillie suits aren't why there is so much interest in DayZ. You could strip all those things out and still have an intense zombie survival mod. More intense really, because firefights would be up close and personal, with zeds swarming everyone.

lol no Not if you like your leet weapon spawns (not to far from WoW purple-fever, huh?) , and cans of beans. And that points out exactly the flaw in relying on raw numbers to determine quality of gameplay... This mod needs to focous less on l33t weapon spawns and more on surviving moment to moment, to realize its potential.

What these figures show most clearly is the mod is enjoying a huge influx of new players learning the mod while also having more aggressive zeds. It also doesn't show the type of pvp that is happening, and its affect on the overall gameplay. Sniper pvp is far different from cqb pvp. I'd like to see as much pvp as possible, but of the close-quarters variety. Where everyone involved is also at risk of zed aggro. Long-range "pvp" (often simply getting sniped with little actual pvp involved) adds little (perhaps nothing) to the zombie apocalypse gameplay. Remove long range rifles/scopes high-RoF weapons from the game and you still have an intense zombie apocalypse mod with pvp as a core construct. Perhaps even more intense because players must get closer to each other to engage in pvp. Remove the zeds and you've got a pretty bland sniper vs sniper mod. When talking about death rates, breaking it down to simply zed vs pvp won't give you an accurate view of what is actually happening. It ignores other key factors. When talking about pvp in this mod, talking about the type of pvp is key. A death by getting sniped by someone who is hiding under a bush in the treeline is not the same type of gameplay as a death by a close quarters pistol/shotgun battle while all combatants are aggroing zeds.

This mod is showing the existing market for a zombie-apoc, hardcore game. Unfortunately, the devs aren't delivering that. Before you start crying about "punishing" bandits, ponder this: Remove the zombies and how many people even hear of this mod,. much less spend any time playing it. Does anyone want to argue that this mod would have such incredible interest without having zombie-survival as a hook to draw new players in? Then you build a game that is basically about farming those players... Don't forget who you are, and why people are interested in your mod. And to players: don't be a sucker and play a game/mod to basically be farmed for the sake of others' epeen.

Sure, provide the link. If he made that response, it's a pretty misguided one on his part. And fundamentally misunderstands why there is so much criticism of the ease of playing as a bandit over playing as a survivor. The strength and interest in this mod isn't about sniper vs sniper pvp. There are far better mods/games that do that. It equates, falsely, putting bandits into the same difficult decision-making survivors have to make, as somehow "punishing" bandits. That's just wrong. Removing long-range weapons, scopes and assault weapons would level the playing field, and make it as hardcore to play as a bandit as it currently is to play as a survivor. Everyone can still pvp. You just can't do it from the safety of a scoped rifle from hundreds of meters out, and with no danger of horde aggro. Currently, playing as a survivor is far more hardcore than playing as a bandit. Playing as a bandit is easy-mode. You kill others while relatively, if not outright completely, safe from the zeds. As it stands now, the mod seems too enamored with military weapons and long-range pvp, and "gearing up" a la WoW and other MMOs. So if Rocket really thinks putting bandit-minded players into situations where they put themselves into danger from zeds by banditing is somehow "punishing" them, I say he's not clear himself on why the mod has garnered so much attention. Most people seem to love the wide-open pvp potential when encountering other players while searching towns. What people seem to hate is getting zapped from hundreds of meters away by someone they never see and who is in little/no danger of zed aggro. People are not flocking to this mod for its sniper vs sniper gameplay. Remove the zombies and see how many people play it.

A few radical ideas: I'd like to see a build of the game with only pistols and shotguns, and very low ammo spawns. Maybe very, very few scoped hunting rifle spawns, but with such low ammo that you'd be lucky to be carrying more than 2-3 shots. No high end, shiny-loot, long-range, high-rof military weapons. Not even any cqb assualt rifles/submachine guns. Make pvp happen up-close-and-personal. Short range weapons with very limited ammo. And within the context of likely drawing the horde. If you make pvp have to happen when the initiating party is likely to draw aggro first, then you put a natural brake on KOSing. Increase zombie spawns, and put zombie spawns in all the treelines around cities to keep campers/snipers on their toes even that far out. More melee weapons, to help new players deal with the increased spawns. Maybe new players spawn with a basic, close range club. It's not zombie survival without a frying pan! Super low spawns of food and drink/clean water. Make basic survival from starvation/dehydration your main concern. And you've got so few rounds, you have to weigh whether you want to open up a firefight, or save them for zed defense. Then the last twist: make it so deaths from gunfire can potentially damage the loot of the killed player... 50% roll on every item being destroyed from each shot. Scenario: Player A has a nice weapon/gear. Player B ganks him for it. Player B's shots hit that weapon/gear and destroys some/all of it. Player B is now out scarce rounds for his own weapon, has murdered a potential ally, and likely has drawn the attention of the horde. Will he even have time to loot his murder victim before the zeds are on him? Player B could of attempted diplomacy and traded for what he needed. He made the selfish, easy choice and suffered worse for it. Or he could of gotten lucky and made out like a... well... bandit! And he had to do it all up close, inherently putting himself at risk. Make everyones' choices have consequences. And the more self-serving choice has the much higher chance for both risk/reward. Right now, the most self-serving choice (KOSing) maximizes rewards while minimizing risk.

Perhaps a loud sniper shot could actually spawn some Zeds. That way when a sniper takes a shot he has to scope his area to make sure he hasnt aggroed anything. Or have the Zeds spawn on his ass. Good idea.