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Yep I agree. Autorun mode would be useful and TPV could be available during autorun until you stop or hit something then it automatically zooms into first person. You could still use freelook and TPV wouldn't be restricted in any way while you're travelling so you could look at your character for those who feel that's important. Right click iron sights would still be available so you'd be basically shooting in first person and do everything else in third person. Basically how most third person players play right now. Why would anyone lock themselves into first person view then? FPV would be dead outside FPV only servers.

TPV available only in a rest state sounds good, but common, IMO somewhat legitimate complaint about FPV only servers is being locked into FPV during those long travels. How about third person being available after running for x seconds and when you stop the view automatically zooms into first person? It would have to be done smoothly without too many abrupt changes but the idea is to travel in third person and do everything else in first person. It would make sense in SA, where we will have to switch to first person in buildings to find stuff under beds etc anyway.

We want a better game, that's about it really. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why just having it optional is not a good long term solution. Dslyecxi did not tear apart the community. This topic has been discussed many times before. Rocket's earlier idea was to have 1st/3rd person toggle only available in options menu but that was thankfully scrapped from what I can tell. A pretty terrible idea that would have achieved nothing aside from killing 1st person view.

Mostly because of his obsession with clothes and motorbike helmets though :) He also said he mostly uses first person for actual gameplay. I think it's part of the reason he doesn't want TPV removed. As much as I love the idea around the new clothing/inventory system, having a 3D representation of our character in the inventory screen is more than enough. I really couldn't care less what do my character's clothes look like.

dgeesio, how many people wouldn't buy the game if 3rd person camera is kept in but gets "butchered" as someone put it? How many would buy the game because it is first person only and a more immersive experience now? How many of those who voted they wouldn't buy it would cave in and buy it later anyway, perhaps in later development stage when it's more expensive? It's nowhere near as simple as "losing 100 000 sales".

I have a damaged vestibular nerve on the right side so I have it far worse off than most people when it comes to motion sickness. It has a lot to do with "tunnel vision" so adjusting the FOV pretty much solves the problem for me. Although the FOV is actually the same in both 1st and 3rd person, 3rd person camera is obviously positioned behind the character so you see "more" to the sides. ARMA is the only FPS I can play for as long as I want without motion sickness. I think it is because it is slower paced and 1st person is not just a floating camera like in other games. A tiny bit of headbob actually helps I think, just gliding around is not good. Has your friend tried double tapping the "-" numpad key to see if it helps?

That's the thing for me. DayZ SA already addresses most of the complaints about first person view. Looting, (easy) FOV changing, 3D character in inventory screen, smoother, less clunky controls. We'd only need different stances system and something done with the vehicles which are being redesigned from scratch anyway. Perfect opportunity to ditch the TPV altogether.

It's not just about the sales though. Otherwise the SA would be nothing like it is right now. I'm not naive to think rocket doesn't care about the sales, but I don't believe removing TPV would have anywhere near as much effect as you're saying. Personally I would still buy and play the game even if FPV servers were not even an option. This is the case for most people IMO.

Reversing the defaults will do nothing in the long run. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced rocket is making a mistake not removing TPV right now. I think he'll end up pleasing no one in the end because TPV players will be bitching about TPV restriction features and their implementation anyway and FPV players would still much rather play in first person than a castrated TPV. Ideally, for FPV and TPV to coexist each should have its advantages and disadvantages. My guess is there will still be no disadvantages to using third person in SA so everyone will end up using it again. Which is fine if that's what rocket is aiming for but for me, this game could have been much more. In a game where most of the tension and atmosphere comes from encounters with other players and zombies, TPV doesn't even make any sense.

It would be nice if we could get a clarification from rocket whether there WILL be first person only servers in SA or not. That would be pretty important for the discussion. I think you're forgetting one thing here Dallas. Although it's a game made by BI, using their own engine, this is not ARMA anymore. It's a standalone survival game. It is not being made to be customizable, moddable or have an editor. Security is not the only reason for that. DayZ mod has demonstrated very well what happens when you give server admins a choice. There is no reason why should, say, waypoints even exist in DayZ as an option. Same with many other remnants from ARMA.

Exactly, and if the ability to raise your head a bit was implemented, the other guy could also see you. Well, he can see you now too because grass layer needs to be improved as well but that's another story. What I'm saying is, we can't expect many if any at all improvements for FPV. I do understand where Dean is coming from, it's a big decision and unlike the mod which could have been a complete failure for all he cared, the standalone game is a different story. I still think he's made a mistake, especially if FPV only servers are not even going to be an option. Time will tell.

Yes, but you can adjust your head so not all grass is in your face. The obvious solution is different stances and the ability to raise your head a bit to look over grass or other objects. With the direction rocket has chosen though, this will probably never happen as they're going to spend that time making the TPV less flawed.

Climbing ladders is terrible in FPV indeed. Also, grass does block the view too much when prone. The funny thing is, rocket's solution is going to make the latter problem worse now that everyone will be locked to FPV when prone. It's just another example why IMO he's approaching the problem the wrong way. TPV restictions are going to need a lot of testing and will inevitably bring other problems as well. Perhaps TPV is not "exploitable" around zombies right now in the mod, but what if/when their aggro range is fixed in SA? Considering what Dean has said so far, it seems many of the proposed solutions posted on here would be impossible to do due to technical reasons. Whatever solution they do come up with will very likely not be very sophisticated. I'm also not convinced there WILL be first person only servers in SA which is why I wish people would stop repeating choice is good.

I'm a fan of the idea. I posted about it before and although people rightly thought it's not the solution to the problem, I think it could work well but ONLY if used with other TPV restrictions such as FPV when prone, closer camera when crouch running, perhaps no leaning or freelook in TPV etc. Obviously it still wouldn't be perfect but the actual firefights would be more tactical, suppressive fire would actually work for instance. Again, by itself the idea is not very useful but in addition to other anti exploit measures it could work. Most people only use FPV for shooting but still switch to TPV during combat to exploit the TP camera view.

Give people a "choice" and watch DayZ SA turn into a joke that the mod currently is. Give people a choice and see any unique idea turn into as generic experience as possible. I see many people are failing to realize this is not at all about playing it "our way because we like it better". It's for the good of the game as a whole. FPV might not even be the best choice for that either, some valid concerns have been raised about it, but that is what all this really is about - what is the best for the game in the long term. People who want to dick around for half an hour of so will of course prefer TPV, 10000 cars and choppers, 24/7 daylight and so on. Even if that might be the most fun way of playing for them and they make up the majority of the player base, it doesn't mean the standalone should be like that or offer such option.

No, what I'm saying is the devs don't have the guts to remove TPV. Not that I blame them. How do you get "play my way or GTFO" from that post, I don't know. I'd be perfectly happy with a compromise that deals with worst offenders, and prone position is just one of them. Sausage mentioned a few good ideas a couple of pages back. We definitely need a set of fixes, not just one for prone. Although better than nothing, prone view restriction alone would be inadequate and a half assed solution for the problem IMO. I think it is a shame we have this wonderful engine where FPV is not just a floating camera with hands attached and we don't just shoot from the center of our screen like in other games. The bullet is actually simulated coming out of the barrel so you can't just shoot at someone while remaining hidden by manipulating the camera. And yet all of that is worthless when TPV changes game mechanics so much that tactically it mostly ends up being down to who can manipulate the camera better.

Looks like rocket is only really interested in restricting TPV for prone position. Meh. It's better than nothing, but that's only part of the issue. Firefights are still going to be lame if that's all there is to this solution. It does seem he wouldn't have a problem with removing TPV himself but doesn't want to because it is "more popular". Can we expect 100000 cars and choppers in standalone too?

I don't see what is so terrible about having the 3rd person as it as but only being able to see things the way you would see them in first person. Perhaps it's not even technically possible to implement or the most elegant solution but I'm curious why do you think that would be so unfair?

I imagine for TPV fans any idea that restricts TPV in any way is the worst idea ever ;) Perhaps there should be a separate thread for TPV improvement discussion only to avoid these "it's not an explot" arguments that are not really useful or helpful to anyone. Though it does make me wonder if there is any point in restricted TPV in the first place when the primary reason people use it is the very fact that it isn't restricted and lets you see more than you should.

This is such a tiring argument. Where does this idea that players "must" have a choice come from? Let's not forget DayZ is a mod for ARMA and many things were not "designed to be that way" but were simply part of ARMA instead and rocket worked with what he had. DayZ SA is it's own game now and there is no reason whatsoever any feature should be kept solely on the basis that "it is popular" in the current mod.

So 3rd person being a huge advantage is okay and yet a proposal that would make it other way around is "pointless". Not that locking freeview in 3rd person would put 1st person at a big, if any advantage anyway. I guess it would be better than nothing but I do hope the devs give it a bit more thought than that. The thing is, there is nothing really hardcore about 1st person view. So many games that don't even aim for a realistic and tense experience do just fine without 3rd person. It just happened to be an option in ARMA that got popular because it gave people an advantage over those playing in standard 1st person view.

I think this is a perfect opportunity for the devs to think hard about it and make the decision. Vehicles are being redesigned from scratch, animations and character movement/stances is a work in progress. If they just design those with 1st person view only in mind, nearly every complaint and issue is solved right there. FOV slider is already in the game and we can see our character in 3D in the inventory screen too. A much better solution than implementing a complex, context sensitive restricted 3rd person view that is never going to be perfect anyway.

If that was the case, there would be no diseases in SA, there would be thousands of cars and choppers (as opposed to most likely none at alpha launch), 24/7 daylight, ridiculous starting loadouts and much more. If the goal of the devs was to have as large player base as possible, DayZ SA would look nothing like it currently does and what it will look like in the future. Would DayZ mod have gotten as popular if 3rd person never existed as an option in ARMA? The answer is of course yes. With the freelook feature, 1st person in ARMA is actually more useful than in many other first person games. If the SA was to come out tomorrow with no 3rd person there would be a huge shitstorm indeed. Eventually people would get used to it and adapt, as they're going to have to do in many other ways coming from the mod anyways.

I agree with this. Many ideas have been posted as to how to remove 3rd person exploits and keep the 3rd person view at the same time and every single one is either extremely complex and hard to implement, or it only partly fixes the issue. Sometimes both. Removing 3rd person and improving 1st person is the way to go here and hopefully rocket realizes that before they decide spending an awful lot of time trying to "fix" 3rd person. Cap'n, weapon animations are the same in 3rd person view as well.

3rd person by itself is not really a "playstyle". Using the exploits that the 3rd person view allows is a playstyle. Those exploits are in turn used by everyone, which is why is cheapens the whole experience. In Gamescom video Dean mentioned they're thinking about context sensitive 3rd person restrictions. The devs obviously do want people to change their "playstyle". Also, DayZ SA being a sandbox game doesn't mean everything should be optional. What this game desperately needs is a much more focused experience or else it is going to turn into a bit of a joke, as is the case with the whole private hive situation with the mod right now.