Katana67

Again, likelihood = rarity. Likelihood =/= inclusion. If something's unlikely to be found in real life, then it should be made rare if it is to be realistic. Not precluded from inclusion entirely, now that's unrealistic. If these things are rare in real life, like you say, wouldn't the realistic thing to do be to... make them rare in DayZ? Either way, the Beta C-Mag is/has been used by European militaries with the G36. Not to mention that there are C-Mags available for most other standard-issue service rifles in service in Europe today. Also, there are drum mags for the AR-15 out there that aren't Beta C-Mags. And, also again, I'm not sue by what criterion you're deeming something as "obscure." Because a lot of folks in the United States seem to have C-mags, and can purchase them to this day if they wish. You're certainly not using any real data to deem something as "unlikely/obscure." Not that said data would be relevant anyway, as DayZ is a work of fiction not adherent to reality. That and it could be a Surefire 100-rounder for all I care, I have absolutely zero issue with a 100-round magazine being included for the M4A1. Also worth mentioning that there are 100-rounders for the RPK/AKs out there, and I doubt people would even bat an eye if they were included (seeing how, also, we've already got the 75 rounder).

Which is sort of what I was saying. Widespread duping, cheating, and exploiting are the problems behind illegitimate commonality. Not the fact that items are included in the game, and certainly not the fact that things are to be made rare. These problems have to be addressed in and of themselves, not merely accepted as facts of life to dictate the course of DayZ. Obviously, most of the three (if not all) cannot be eradicated 100%. But they can be marginalized to the point of being irrelevant/outliers. Duping can be fixed. Cheating can be minimized. Exploiting can be minimized. These are issues which exist separately from the items included in the game. If we start saying "We can't include X because it might be duped" then we'll be left with two things - nothing (because why include an M4A1 if it's just going to be duped?!), or, a bland "balanced" experience where everything is the same.

But then (ostensibly, assuming that 5.56x45 remains rarer than 5.45x39 should it be implemented) the AK-74M would just be patently better than the AK-101. The AK-74M would be the same as the AK-101, just with more common ammunition. The AK-101 would just be a more-difficult-to-supply version of the AK-74M. It would look the same too. That and, I'm sure you're aware, the AK-100 series has 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 weapons in it as well. The AK-101 is just the AK-74M chambered in 5.56, so it's not like the AK-101 is anything particularly unique by comparison.

Your prose and points are unintelligible. On one hand you're confirming what I'm saying (that cheating is the problem, not things being rare). And on the other, you're seemingly identifying rarity as a motivator for KOS (which is true, but I don't consider that to be a problem at all, and is a prime driver in the turnover of rare items in spawns), which is something that has no relevance anyhow. So now something being civilian-only is a disqualifier? Beta C-MAGs are like $200 USD. Compare that to the multiple-thousand-dollar Blaze 95 spawning in residential areas.

I think the Sa. vz. 58 compact would have been a cool choice for an AKS-74U analog. Looks different enough to me, plus is available in 5.56x45, so there's a bit of wiggle room.

Perhaps the inclusion of an SBR AK will also prompt them to add some kind of CQC optic(s) for the AK-pattern weapons. Kobra would be neat, hopefully sans sunshade. PK01-Vi would be preferable, because it looks less... for lack of a better word... dumb. I can't stand the wonky look of most Warsaw Pact optics. But of course, if they were ever able to add some kind of rail mount for the AK platform stuff (which I'm not necessarily in favor of) then it'd open things up to the 1913-compatible optics we've got now.

Not for nothing, but there's already a thread on this. Which was unfortunately titled in such a way that made it seem like it wasn't about this very topic (because it is about a personal attachment to an argument, rather than the argument itself). Anywho... I wouldn't mind any of the above. If they were to add 5.45x39 as well as an AKS-74U that would be lovely! If they were to add a 5.56 SBR AK variant, that would be cool too! If they were to add a 7.62x39 SBR AK variant, that would be just as cool! I guess I might prefer the 7.62x39 SBR AK over a 5.56 SBR AK. Obviously, I'd rather they have an AKS-74U in 5.45x39 (as adding 5.45x39 would add an extra layer with which to balance ammunition rarity). But, given that I feel that's the least likely scenario, I'd go with a 7.62x39 SBR AK due to how problematic/divisive the prospect of another AK chambered in 5.56x45 is. If they were to add 5.45x39 though, I'd want them to dump the AK-101, re-chamber it in 5.45, and then re-name it accordingly. No sense in then having an AK-101 and an AK-74M. And it's not like there's any shortage of distinct 5.56x45 weapons to take its place. And yes, after they knock out all the requisite AK archetypes left over (i.e. a SBR AK and an HBAR AK), I think Warsaw Pact stuff needs to go on the backburner for a while (save for the SVD which is ostensibly finished already, and perhaps a PKM/RPD). Hopefully a battle rifle (like an M14, FAL, G3, or AR-10) is on the 1.0 weapons list.

Again, a problem with something other than the fact that things are rare. That's a problem with duping, not the fact that things can be made rare. Having the mere possibility of exploitation dictate entire gameplay mechanics never struck me as a particularly logical mode of advancing the game. Fix duping. Don't let it dictate what can be done in DayZ. And either way, if the hive only allows X amount of Y items on the server at any given time, I would imagine that duping wouldn't be possible. It could, in theory, detect and autodelete any instances of an item it finds which are in excess of the prescribed amount. EDIT - It's still funny (not referring to your post anymore) that people still blur the lines between an item being common and an item being merely included in DayZ. I mean, how do people not realize... in this day and age... that these are two different issues completely? It just baffles me. People always come out with "Don't add X at all, because everyone will walk around like some tacticool warrior operator bro!" Which, for one, assumes that having military gear is somehow contrary to survival (it isn't, you'd be a fool to not be searching for military gear if you were trying to survive, as most of it is designed expressly to facilitate the survival of the operator). Secondly, it completely gives the middle finger to the concept of rarity. If you were coming across a 100-round magazine once every month, I doubt you'd be able to say that "everyone" has it.

Sounds like an issue with server hopping, not the fact that X is merely in the game, or X is rare/common. Hence why I dismissed the OP's concerns as illogical, as there is no operative connection between the fact that something is in the game... and how frequently we'll be coming across it. And plus, even if server hopping is left un-remedied, the loot management system will fix the numbers of certain items on the hive. So, if they wanted, they could have five 100-round magazines spawning on the entire hive. So five people maximum could be using 100-rounders at any time, no matter how hard they server hop. I agree with the last bit. Hence why I said, in another thread, that the magazines (all of them or most) shouldn't spawn loaded. They should spawn empty the majority of the time, so that people aren't picking up 100 rounds in one smack when they happen across a 100-round magazine.

Much in the same way that the AK-101/AK-74M divide is one of pure semantics, hence why making it "realistic" only involved changing the name of the AK-74M. Hence why people resented the prospect of the AK-74M being chambered in 5.56x45 to begin with, because it was "unrealistic." Much in the same way that people who are uncompromising with regard to "realism" stamp their feet and hold their breath until they get what they want. Much in the same way that people who are uncompromising with regard to "realism" indict the developers personally as if they're betraying them somehow if they don't get 100% of what they want. Much in the same way that any semblance of simplicity/compromise is dismissed vitriolically as "casual" even if it's just a pragmatic gameplay decision. There's a lack of reason on both sides of the aisle. I don't agree with all that the developers have done, or even most of it (including the omission of 5.45x39, although for an actual reason). But I make my points in ways which focus on the issues, not the people on either side of the issue. Let's focus on the issues. EDIT - I recognize that you may not, and probably weren't, referring to me personally. However, for the record, it was you who brought "the folks" making the argument... rather than the argument itself, into question.

Have you never heard of making things rare? Advocate for that. Rather than excluding things illogically. Simply because a 100-round magazine is available in-game, doesn't mean everyone will have it. Hence the rarity. If you don't want to see it all of the time, then advocate for it being rare. People will spray regardless of whether they've got a 30 round magazine or a 100 rounder.

SPOSN pack looks sweet. I hope they add the Ballistic Vest in as well. Now that we've got all the Russian gear one could ever dream of, hopefully they'll be able to get into a bit of diversification (both on the "civilian" and "military" end of things, at least with clothing/gear). Also stoked for the "biker helmet" (i.e. a ProTec helmet). You won't find me anywhere near the penis-head that is the MASKA helmet. But MICH and ProTec all day.

Until they put in said "involved procedure" as a game mechanic (which is highly unlikely), we've got the loot-point-click attachment system.

I'd rather these be facets of the already-included attachment system.

I agree, for pragmatic reasons, the AK-101 (i.e. a supposedly common/uncommon assault rifle) in 5.56x45 (i.e. a relatively rare assault rifle cartridge) is a bad choice. But people seldom make that argument. You are one of two people that I've seen, beside myself, make the argument for 5.45x39 because of pragmatic concerns about diversifying the ammunition rarity in-game. However, it is by no means necessary to add 5.45x39. We've already got 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 in-game. 7.62x39 is the more common round, whilst 5.56x45 is rarer. Diversification is a good idea, but they can still balance rarity with two rounds. 90%, with only a small amount of hyperbole, of people post the non-argument of "it doesn't fit the locale" as their sole reason for having 5.45x39 in the game.

Well, the problem is, that people have a warped definition of what "fits the locale." Shaped by... I don't know what. 1. The countries enveloped by generalized notions of "Warsaw Pact," "Eastern Europe," and "former-Soviet" are incredibly diverse. You're essentially covering the entirety of Asia, half of Europe, and all of the Caucasus. 2. NATO weapons/calibers are being used by many of the aforementioned states. Not just by Special Forces (which is still a valid mode of advancing an argument), but as standard service rifles. 3. Many of the aforementioned countries, have manufacturers of NATO weaponry within them. 4. Many of the aforementioned countries are developing, or have developed, their own weapon platforms which are distinct from that of "Soviet Russia." EDIT - 5. We live in a globalized economy, where weapons can be shipped across borders. Hence why Kenya has Mk 17s, Serbia has Mk 16s, Hamas has FN2000s, and Libya has AK-103s To an extent, you're correct (and I've been waiting a while for someone to make this connection) that the AK-101 is akin to something like an AR-15 in 7.62x39. But, for one, I wouldn't mind if that were the case... I like nifty ARs like that. Secondly, and more importantly, the AK-101 and AK-74M are visually identical (save for a slightly less-curved magazine). So much so, that I've put intentionally mislabeled comparisons of the two and so-called "gun nuts" haven't corrected me.

My point is that there's no hard divide anymore. The Berlin Wall fell. Eastern European, former-Soviet, former-Yugoslavian, Caucasian, and former-Warsaw Pact countries have incredible diversity in the weapons they use. So it's inaccurate to suggest, essentially, that all of them only use AKs in 7.62x39/5.45x39. When the evidence indicates clearly to the contrary. Chernarus is fictional. It, to me, appears to be an amalgam of Bosnia/Kosovo, Chechnya, Georgia, Czech Republic, and Ukraine. Which all have distinct circumstances, landscapes, and conflicts in the former two. There is no monolithic "Eastern Bloc" which all uses one weapon platform or caliber.

Which is where I disagree. I don't think Warsaw Pact weapons should "share more accessories" than NATO weapons. I think they should be less flexible, with the benefit of being easier to find/maintain/supply. Modularity is an advantage (although not as big an advantage as some might assert), one to be justified by rarity in my opinion. If AK-pattern weapons can share all these attachments, then what would be the point of having a rare Mk 17 or some such which is every bit as modular now (in terms of DayZ) as the AK family? Warsaw Pact gear should have more common attachments, at the expense of being less ubiquitous. NATO gear should have rarer attachments, with the benefit of being more generic/ubiquitous.

I wasn't combating the assertion that nobody uses the AK-101. I was combating the assertion that 5.56x45 is not used widely in former-Soviet/Warsaw Pact countries.

I don't really see this as a fault. There's nothing that suffers by not having a Saiga 12 or Vityaz SN in terms of the other AK-pattern weapons, especially with regard to attachments. Personally, I'd rather the attachment-savvy weapons be 1913 compatible. The AK-pattern attachments should be weapon-specific, at the premium of being more common. I want NATO weapons to be ubiquitous in terms of sharing attachments (through a generic 1913 interface). Other WP or European weapons, can be set aside for "weapon-specific" attachments in my opinion.

Well personally, I don't really assign much validity to the "it's confusing" argument put forth by the developers. But, if I were to work within the confines of that argument, I'd include perhaps a Polish 5.45x39 variant instead of the AK-74M. But then again, I don't particularly see a need for both the AK-101 and AK-74M. If I had to choose, and if 5.45x39 were included, I'd dump the AK-101. I think it should be one or the other, not both (as that would be wholly redundant). And either way (unless they're willing to render an entire line of AKs in 5.56, 5.45, and 7.62 at the same time) there's going to be an outlier. Which is why I want 7.62x39 to be the "common" round, only able to be used in the AKM and CZ 527. And 5.45x39 to be the "uncommon" round to be used in the rarer, but more varied, lineup of AKs (like the AK-74M, RPK-74M, and AKS-74U).

Really? This type of stuff is still in the water supply? Just off the top of my head... Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Czech Republic, Germany [formerly East/West], Georgia, are all former Soviet countries which have standard-issue service rifles chambered in 5.56x45. It's also worth mentioning that ten former Warsaw Pact countries are a part of NATO now.

Errr, I'm not sure of your question. If they included both the AK-101 and AK-74M, then they'd both "fit in" because they're in the game. All that's needed on the AK end, are four generic AK-pattern archetypes. 1. The "modernized" AK (i.e. AK-101, AK74M, AK-103). 2. The "vanilla" AK (i.e. AKM) 3. The SBR AK (i.e. AKS74U, AKMS, Zastava M85) 4. The HBAR AK (i.e. RPK, RPK-74M, RPK-201) And perhaps a bullpup AK. Whatever caliber they're in, once they're covered, I want them to give AKs a break. The furniture aspect is covered by the attachment system, not any given weapon being included.

You're half correct. 5.45x39 is in-fact, in DayZ currently. The current AK-101 magazines have visible 5.45x39 rounds inside of them, but it still is chambered in 5.56x45 (hence why the difference is largely semantic in this particular case, as it just involves swapping of names). The rounds pictured in that old rendering (from last November IIRC, before SA was even released), though, are not 5.45x39 (pictured below). Looks much more like vanilla 7.62x51/.308 to me.

It's not receiving a new model, it's getting retextured (i.e. a new coat of proverbial paint). And yeah, some people are excited. See the thread that was already created. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/210246-has-the-battle-been-won/