Katana67

Again, personally, I have no issue with the inclusion of random deviation... inasmuch as it is rendered in a "realistic" fashion (i.e. in terms of a MOA measurement and on a small-scale). But now, and in a lot of games, it's just way overdone as to remove any semblance of "skill" or "aim" from the player. Firearms do have natural deviation, but it's usually negligible inside of their effective ranges.

I could get behind it if it were relative to the caliber fired (as opposed to a blanket "recoil" system). When I fire my friends' PTR-91 (G3 clone), even with compensator and recoil buffer installed, it's certainly pretty difficult to land a follow-up shot (I attribute that to my small hands more than anything, you have to be a burly Teutonic operator to work a G3). I've never fired anything in fully automatic above 5.56x45, but weapons like the M4 are relatively controllable on full-auto. Nevermind semi-auto.

I have trouble engaging targets past 50m after having sprinted in the Standalone. It's not sway in the sense that it's swaying from side to side. It's random. The muzzle of your weapon is randomly jolting to random points, so "sway" might be a bit of a misnomer. It's not even flowing to the random points, your sight picture is just randomly jolting around. Overall, I think the main flaw in DayZ/ARMA's shooting-moving is the assumption that "realistic" means "complicated" or "hyper-encumbered". They've gone too far in one direction, and overshot a happy medium (that is indeed "realistic" in my opinion). Hitting a target at "normal" ranges isn't really rocket science, yet ARMA/DayZ seem to assume that it is.

Well, it's not realistic (in my opinion) to have the recoil just ascend endlessly. When I fire a weapon, the weapon naturally resets (to a degree, it might not be exactly on-target, but it usually isn't far off) after recoiling. The muzzle doesn't just hover angled up, one's muscles and natural position reset the firearm. I have no idea if that's how it behaves now in the SA, but I never thought the way the recoil behaves in DayZ to be overly ridiculous (save for the Mosin, which should kick like a mule).

Yes, and I'm in agreement that the deviation needs to be toned down significantly. I said that in my first post on this thread. Sway, in my opinion, should only prevent people from engaging targets past 200m without taking a breather. If the sway affects my ability to hit a zombie/player accurately at 20m, no thanks.

Agreed on the first, disagreed on the second. It only really factors in, for me, past 150-200m. Sure, I'm not a rock-steady ex-SF mag-flipping Chris Costa look alike, but I can hit a target at range without having a seizure. I've always felt ARMA went wayyyy the hell overboard with the sway, especially after sprinting (from both a realism and balance point of view).

No, I'm not. Where in that does it imply that I think "DayZ mod < DayZ Standalone"? I take issue with the characterization of the STANDALONE as an "arcade mess" and I take issue with the assertion that the mod has perfect "buttery smooth gunplay," separately. They're both pretty clunky and both have flaws.

I mean, barrels/cartridges have a natural deviance. Hence why the use of minute-of-angle accuracy measurement exists. It's not on the order of feet like it is in BF4 (to which I've proposed a similar thing that you have here). But simply because your weapon is zeroed at a pre-determined distance, even removing operator error and wind/gravity, your rounds aren't going to go exactly where you want them. I appreciate that deviation is way too significant in the game as it stands, and think that's an awful way to go. But removing it entirely isn't something I endorse.

I didn't say or imply that I thought that... at all.

HIGHLY debatable, on all three accounts.

Natural deviation should be in (as it is a "realistic" factor), but it should be on the order of centimeters/inches, rather than feet/yards. But it needs to be minimized HEAVILY as to be pretty much a non-factor. I don't think sights need to sway more than they already do, I don't have a seizure whenever I shoulder my weapon even after sprinting.

Yep, one thing I've always faulted DayZ/ARMA for were the dismal animations. It's never been BIS's strong suit. I mean, look at the drink animation (or lack of one at all) for fountains. It's always been the case, granted, it's Alpha. But I've always been wholly underwhelmed with the animations coming out of BIS products. But yes, backpack animations would be great. Although, animations for a lot of things would be great as well.

Yeah, to be honest, we need a Warsaw Pact pistol. The pistol lineup is really the only lineup which doesn't have any Warsaw Pact stuff (even the CZ-75 SP-01 SHADOW doesn't really count). Which is sort of revealing to my overall outlook on what weapons are to be considered plausible... Muahahaha. They could even chamber the Makarov in 9mm Parabellum and I'd be okay with it, still unsure as to how they intend on approaching ammunition commonality.

Sorry, I wrecked my own sentence structure with that one either way. Fair enough.

I was with you up until this bit. DayZ is the antithesis of CoD to me. A clunky and unintelligible shooting mechanic versus a smooth yet overly-simplified WYSIWYG shooting mechanic.

Since the majority of my player encounters take place at either 200m or more, or, end up with me just getting shot without knowing where from... no, clothing doesn't really matter to me. As an aside, can anyone actually cite an instance where one has been spotted when one is using a "white" character? I always see folks running "black" characters as if they are somehow more difficult to see. For my account, it makes zero difference. I've never said to myself, "Oh yes! Found him! If only he'd've had a "black" character!" I used to run a boonie based on the fact that it was supposedly harder to see versus a MICH helmet. Which I'm marginally sure is bullshit. To the above, who negatively regards players who don't use voice, I don't use voice (EDIT - Sorry, my retard sentence structure got the best of me). I don't want to listen to the majority of people's voices. More than willing to interact with you via text, more than willing to NOT shoot you in the head. Blame DayZ mod with its unfettered sidechat.

You are correct. The tents spawned loot for a while in the beginning as well, but they stopped for some reason. Only recently did they have loot-spawning capabilities restored.

Again, what I'm seeing leads me to believe otherwise. Lrn2disagree.

I just said both would be alright, multiple times. But given the choice between the two, I'd pick a craftable and place-able item because I view it to be more flexible (in terms of being able to be placed anywhere), rewarding (through being a crafted/looted item), and also flexible in terms of navigating around the pre-existing environment rather than being a slave to it. Again, both would be alright. From what I've seen of the ACE system, it's pretty unpolished. The weapons move around just the same as if they were unsupported (horizontally), save for the recoil being lessened.

Given the choice between having a system which recognizes surfaces (which I suspect would be a bitch to implement properly in the Standalone) and a system which allows the player to place a crafted supported firing position anywhere he/she wants, I'd choose the latter personally. Also considering the development workload involved, which could be different depending on how they approach the two systems. If both can be done, great, like Zarniwoop said. My particular concern, and the concern of this thread, is the lack of flexibility inherent in being rooted to the ground or being prone. If a supported firing position depends on pre-existing surfaces, then it'd be pretty difficult to fire from within a room (unless there's a table or chair pre-rendered in the building already). Being able to place an item wherever the player wishes, versus being confined to the surfaces in the game, is more attractive to me. But again, if both are feasible, great. Not opposed to either.

Honestly, if both can be done easily, great. But I'd rather have it be a craftable item, which allows for fixed shooting (i.e. that has to be consciously set up), and can be used independently (i.e. the player creates his/her own shooting platform).

Nah, I'm good. Granted, I wouldn't grab the pitchforks if they added a vanilla 1911. But, I'd rather other weapons go in its place.

Yeah, they do. Will be a huge problem/issue with respawning loot. I think they need to tweak the spawn distribution as well, to favor the inland overall (not just for military loot).

Up to the moderators, this thread is intended to spark discussion, not to directly propose one particular mode of implementation, hence why I reference that in the OP. Likewise, Bipods are already implemented, yet the way in which they have been implemented hasn't been thoroughly discussed (in my opinion). My Battle Rifle thread was left untouched, whilst the GPMG/LMG thread was moved to suggestions. Sort of a grey area when you're intending to discuss potential implementations of something. Not a suggestion, yet it doesn't pertain specifically to the game as it stands.

Accommodating a way of standing and shooting from a supported position is essential in my mind, kneeling/sitting in the Standalone often times isn't enough to clear most window sills and ledges. I think the standing shooting sticks wouldn't be all that hard to animate, really just requires a re-placement of the arm/hand and a bit of angle to the player's lean.