bibbish

A war-torn world. Few safe havens. Ruined climate. Boat crashes. It's all pretty bleak. Sure it needs some work, but I think it fits well.

I liked that one. Would add atmosphere and once you are dead and have respawned you don't have to worry about not being able to play while someone chops your old body up.

Sorry hang on you are implying that some players would tie a person up, rob them, leave them and not kill them. Right. Well depending on if killing is a big deal in SA or not. But like you said 'I'm a bandit, so id pop em', so I can't see many people being left alive after being robbed. But maybe...

Admittedly I don't watch them, no. Thanks for posting that. I noticed a few things. As what Rocket is demonstrating there is pre-alpha we're going to a have to assume that the info you have learnt from it may end up being incorrect and what I have concluded may also be incorrect. Firstly Rocket says that the player will be able to break out of the restraints after a couple minutes. The trouble with this is that he is talking in a very casual way, as he is in the rest of the video. I don't think he gave us a fact there, he didn't say 'characters in good health can break free of restraints in 120 seconds' or 'characters with good lock-picking skills do this faster'. I think he was giving a very general idea of how the mechanic will work. Secondly I think that if the character who is restrained is able to break free of handcuffs without any form of tool things have just become a bit too unrealistic. Or more specifically, it doesn't feel very authentic to the game experience. Maybe further down the line players will be able to conceal a lock-pick, hair-grip or paper clip on their person which a captor cannot find unless maybe they kill them and give the body a good inspection? These items could have durability too, like everything else. There would be risk for the captor, if they use handcuffs the captive person might pick the lock, if they use rope they may struggle free or cut it with a sharp stone or glass from the floor. Not knowing and the risk involved is part of the fun. But breaking free of handcuffs with no tool at all feels like a mechanic for the sake of it and too 'gamey' in my opinion. Next I noticed that the 'struggling' animation seemed far too obvious. Maybe the harder you struggle the faster you break free? That would be good, because the captive player would work towards breaking free, taking the chance to struggle harder when the captor's back is turned. As the mechanic exists now it is really obvious what the captive player is doing and should be far more subtle, a small movement you would have to watch closely for. As Rocket mentioned the captor would just tell them to stop and if they didn't would shoot them in the face. I've watched things like 24 and many films where the protagonist will be breaking free of restraints by using something sharp like a piece of glass to cut cable ties or tape behind their back, in the mean time they are distracting their captor. The distracting conversation is usually an emotional exchange. The trouble is if a random on the internet captures me I have no emotional attachment to them, I can't distract them with talk, especially when my character is flailing around like a fish trying to magically get free of handcuffs. This all adds up to a captor or group watching their prisoner. Every time they try to 'hold down' the button; to struggle free of their restraints they are told to stop. Sure I might be able to break free of my handcuffs in two minutes, but if my progress is repeatedly halted or even reset I could be there for a much, much longer time. Which takes me back to the point in one of my earlier posts - if I can't do much or anything when I am caught (such as ready a concealed weapon, get up and headbutt the captor), except 'struggle' which will only cause me to be told to stop, then I will get quite bored. To be perfectly honest when I see what Rocket is doing in the Devblog the whole restraints thing feels different. On the one hand it is a noble effort to add a new gameplay element to a game which is known for thinking outside the box. It is worlds apart from the OP's post suggesting that once people are restrained they can be hanged. It doesn't seem as 'sick' when Rocket explains it. But on the other hand, these mechanics are very raw. Everyone keeps on saying THIS WILL BE IN THE GAME ROCKET SAID SO, but I think the restraints idea is actually a little naive, unless it is rather intricate and brings interesting gameplay experiences to both the captive player and the captor, well then I can only see it being abused by trolls. If a person from X clan comes up with the idea to get captured by Y clan because he knows he can use his concealed lock-pick and weapon to break free and wreak havoc inside their base, well that would be interesting. Y clan would want to capture him though, they would have to believe that he has an uber rare item and if they hold him long enough he will give them the location. I think as you can see from my long post and very farfetched ideas about concealed lock-picks, struggling mechanics, clans and getting caught on purpose, I wouldn't be surprised of this mechanic didn't make it to the finished game because it is just too hard to balance. Other than a power trip/bullying I can't believe someone would want to take another player hostage, surely no information or rare item location is worth all that effort? On top of all this I can't see that that any player on the receiving end of this treatment would be 'happy' or 'accepting' enough of it to happen, simply because DayZ SA is a game, a simulation yes, but also a game which should be fun, and it is very difficult to extract fun out of being tied up. (Kinky stuff aside). Finally as hinted at above, balancing realism with playability when it comes to breaking free of restraints in an unscripted game where all characters are human controlled would be a nightmare. I think this mechanic simply isn't worth the effort. The bugs, hackers, lore, items, things to 'do', disease and possible 'end game' are more deserving of time if you ask me.

That story you told is pretty amazing yes. I think what is key and very different there is that you were doing a lot of things during the hunt. Looking, hiding, avoiding zeds, trying to fight back. While also surving, presumably if you ran you had to drink, if you were hit you had to bandage. Rocket is going to have to balance 'restraints' pretty well otherwise, no I may not buy SA. Unless the chances for 'escape' are pretty numerous/interesting I won't be tied up for 30 minutes if I am 'caught'. I think, honestly, that the majority of people would find that situation interesting the first time, the second time they would stop to show a friend and the third time would turn them off from playing the game. As we don't know what the 'escape' mechanics are yet I think we will have to put a pin in this. Game-play wise if there are things to 'do' while tied up (ready a concealed weapon, try to pick the handcuffs or break the rope, get to your feet and head-butt the captor etc) then maybe it might be fun, but if for 25 of those 30 minutes I am sat doing nothing well that's just boring. Realistic but boring.

The mere threat of just one person on the server having something like this does indeed add needed tension. I like it.

KoS to avoid server lag by people placing like 10 heads each. All those heads might look a little stupid. Of course a clan could place a head each, imagine coming across six heads in the woods. A good warning.

While OP may need a little therapy I think this is a good idea. :P We'd need to find a way to stop people putting heads everywhere though because it would get a little boring/weird. Maybe the limits could be: One head placeable per personAxe required to cut off head (since SA will should have lots of melee weapons no hatchet or fire axe means no decapitation)Knife/machete required to make stake Risk of disease, like someone else mentioned. (Since SA would have lots of different illnesses you would have to be ready in case you got one)Stakes can only be placed in soil, not in roads or stone or wood, maybe not inside buildings (?)

I agree, parents need to take responsibility. I wouldn't let my kid play DayZ.

But at the same time the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. You are right, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort.

I wasn't aware of this. But yes, I agree, if your character, gear etc was entirely separate that would be fine.

Capo, I think you put it much better than I did. Basically there are 24 hours in a day. 10 of mine are taken up travelling and working, I require 9 hours sleep. That leaves just 5 hours. I'm not going to waste more than a couple minutes while some guy I have never met before walks me across a 225km square map or puts me in a vehicle just to kill me. Sure if it took 30 seconds it would be pretty interesting and if it was a friend who had caught me it might be funny. I agree with many though that we should not be held hostage just so some sick guy can either enjoy having a victim or hanging someone or both. Anyone who thinks otherwise I would think is trolling or mental. SalamanderAnder please don't be rude to people because they point out flaws in ideas and don't want their precious time wasted. I think someone being lead to be hanged (yes hanged everyone, hung means something else) in a TV show of a similar ilk like The Walking Dead or say in some film may be interesting and dramatic, but in a game when you want to be DOING things it would be very tedious. We are not cowards for not wanting strangers, on the internet, or otherwise to waste our time.

Hold up one sec. I'm no combat logger. What we have to do here though is remember that we are talking about a game and a game is meant to be fun. This is probably down to personal taste but when I have scavenged for gear for days and get shot, or even carelessly eaten by zoms I feel pretty gutted. I accept it though because having high stakes is what makes the game enjoyable. I then respawn and start collecting and playing again, because that is one of the most fun bits. (Just like leveling up in WoW is more fun than end game raiding to some). I must enjoy things being very challenging because I also play games like Dark Souls, despite not being the best gamer in the world. I know I have a slightly sadist streak in me. The 'dire gameplay scenario' we are talking about here however takes things a bit too far in my opinion. If you shoot me I can respawn some place else and carry on playing. I accept that you have looted my corpse. I SHOULD NOT be able to CHOOSE a nearby spawn and regain my gear. I SHOULD be able to carry on playing and have fun again like I described above. However being tied up and then not allowed to have any more fun for 1 minute, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, 7 hours... well I'm sure you can see that you would have just taken away my ability to 'play' DayZ. This would only work on roleplaying servers where killing other players came with a penalty and you were unsure what to do with me and I had an entire clan of players coming to rescue me. The reason I might consider logging if I was tied up and then creating a character on another hive or something is because I am not going to sit about, while tied up and you decide what to do with me. You can see how that mechanic is ripe for abuse by trolls, surely?

I see the distinction OfficerRaymond... I'm on the fence because I enjoy the feeling that a bandit might get me at any moment if I'm not careful.

This sounds like a form of bullying. Keep me in game? What if I turn my PC off? This may be fun for the two or more players who have caught another player but surely it would either be very distressing for the victim, or just boring? What if I took a day off work to play DayZ, stole some beans from your tent and you tied me up? I wouldn't stay online for hours pleading that you don't kill my character and let me go. I'd create another character and go merrily on my way. Stringing up corpses is a good idea though, I agree with you and the OP that hanging bodies, dead ones, from trees or posts would add atmosphere and serve as a warning to certain types of players. Yes, I can see how it wouldn't 'wash' in many countries though.

I think the game is about PVP a bit. Many of us are 'versus' each other, competing for loot and sometimes things get nasty. Sure it would be great if many of us worked together, it would be more interesting. But this hanging... this is just sick.

Actually I then had some trouble fighting zoms in a barn. My hatchet range has definitely been nerfed. That said by stepping backwards after each missed swing and slowly letting the zoms get nearer I was able to take them all out without taking damage. It was tricky but then surely it should be? IRL I could have nearly any melee weapon of my choosing and if I had to kill a raging infected I would struggle to without getting the shit kicked out of me. After that I had to take a couple out with my hatchet in a house. I got backed into a corner but was still able to hatchet the zom in the face without getting hit before or otherwise. In fact I've never had that much trouble with melee, out in the open I am able to sneak up on zoms and hit them from behind. I always have to concentrate though. We shouldn't have the luxury of near silent kills while running around the country side with uber range and attack speed. But I do think that different melee weapons should have different ranges. Low end gear could include a small hatchet with low range and high end gear could include a fire axe which obviously has more range but perhaps a slower swing speed? Then of course in the SA there could be pool cues and broom handles which can be crafted (with the use of a blade) into 'spears', these would have more range but break easily. But back on topic... with a hatchet I found the range to be fine. It brings balance. Melee is silent but dangerous, handguns are not too noisey but give a safer attack range. Rifles/shotguns are risky because of the noise but at least you can turn the weapon on another player should the situation go south, sniper rifles and scoped weapons take practice but put you at a safe distance and finally people sometimes treat silenced weapons like gold dust but then rightly so, surely?

I think this is another one of those things we should 'turn a blind eye to'. Sure, old fuel in a rusty tank would probably end up damaging your engine or entirely useless, but in the name of 'fun' and 'gameplay' we should ignore that. In the SA players should be able to go around and siphon fuel from vehicles, with varying results, but as the vehicles are mostly in visible places such as highways it would draw a lot of attention. Perhaps it would encourage playing at night?

Well the amount of times people say 'you should have searched, there is already a thread on this' is probably the reason he replied to this old thread... and so what? The thread is so old I didn't even know it existed and it turned out to be fairly interesting.

I think this is a good idea. Working out exactly how rare to make fuel is key. The OP about wars over fuel and stuff - brilliant and exciting. Currently when you repair a vehicle you can take it from red (ready to explode) to green (pretty much fine). I think this should not be the case. Most vehicles should only be able to be repaired up to an orange (or yellow with a more detailed UI) condition because some complicated parts of the vehicle are damaged and cannot be repaired. A vehicle which you have fixed, say replaced the engine and wheels should still be able to stop dead because the gearbox suddenly breaks. Maybe gearboxes would be very rare? But yes, lots more vehicles and a lack of fuel would certainly be more authentic. If getting a small car or something working didn't take long, but the hunt/quest against the environment or other players to get fuel was more challenging, well that would be more inclusive in a way. Trading and interacting with other players say food or guns in return for the location of a small stash of fuel? Or maybe just a few kills to try and get it? That is much welcome interaction. This may not be the perfect idea, but it is one which may create interesting gameplay, which is what we need.

We can argue all we like about if DayZ is a 'sandbox', 'MMORPG' or a 'survival simulator' or even a type of 'survival horror' but I think after all this time it has become pretty clear that players need something to work towards or at least more depth which is why these suggestions keep coming up. People mention RPG like elements (passive 'abilities' or traits like being immune because of vaccination and/or 'micro skills' like getting a bit better at first aid/mechanics/building fires/gutting) because the initial draw for the game, the wonderment of something new and the fairly unique social interaction stage of the mod has finished. The feeling I get is that many people got bored of asking if another player was 'friendly' and playing for a while, only to get betrayed. The reason people got bored is because it happened repeatedly. This wouldn't happen repeatedly in real life because one bad betrayal would probably cause your death. People also talk about an 'end game'. I think this is okay, but Rocket and his team will have to be very very clever and careful about how they implement any such features. Games like GTA, Saints Row, Far Cry, Crackdown etc all have 'sandbox' elements to them, but there are more structured missions and even a main story for when you want them. Anything like this in DayZ SA would have to be incredibly subtle but I think it is the reason people keep on saying 'wouldn't it be cool if the map/radio lead you to X crash-site or bunker' and the reason I keep on mentioning the 'lore' (back story) in my posts is because people want a detailed word with more things to DO even if they are only vaguely hinted at and not compulsory. This must be what drives people to mod or ask for base building and trading options in the game. I haven't put many hours into the game but things I still 'do' include collecting fire/hunting gear, getting a better gun, visiting deer stands, repairing vehicles and a bit of random PVP. I think what we have to remember here is that yes, DayZ is a type of simulator but also a game and it is meant to be fun. I don't think we should get quite as worked up as we do when people turn to PVP, clan wars and helicopter battles. All that looks pretty fun to me. We need to stop answering posts like this with 'NO' or 'not realistic' because DayZ isn't in the slightest bit realistic. I'm pretty confident that if Rocket and co implemented a few 'micro skills' running in the background, the diseases he mentioned, some interesting story items and minor 'events' in the SA we'd all find it pretty interesting and engaging. I'm sure 99% of players, including myself, don't want to be able to get to 'level 100' and then beat the 'uber-zombies' and see the credits roll, but I would like a richer gaming experience. Balance is key, we've got pretty far already on user generated gameplay, ('This is DayZ. This is your story.') and I think the evidence of that (Clan websites, YouTube vids) speaks volumes for how much effort people have put in, but I hope the developers give the SA a little more structure and content. Time will tell.

Your post started to sound kinky for a second there...

I agree, bits of wire (loot) along the power lines and the occasional zom is fine. But yeah, loads of car parts and masses of zoms makes no sense. Making the power lines have a little loot and therefore zoms is quite a good idea, it stops people 'switching off' completely when using the power lines to navigate and goes a tiny step closer to zoms roaming outside of towns and cities.

Part of me disagrees. Sure 'making a name' or feeling good about killing a player in game may be weird to you, and even to me, but if this guy wants to play like that then that's fine and his decision. I hope SA even in the early stages has features which set it apart from the Mod. Because after playing the Mod for a while once people have learnt how to handle the zoms, survive and repair vehicles PVP is the next logical step for many. I have a feeling that minor tweaks and graphics aside this feeling may be carried over to SA quicker than we would like with people killing on sight in the early days of the alpha. I can't shake that feeling and hope that the SA is exciting enough and has enough in it to encourage us to work together.

People talked about and idea for the mod or SA where if you reach the edge of the map... perhaps in a vehicle you would have a loading screen and end up on a different map. You know from one of the other mods. That would be cool.