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Habibabob
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what if you made the loot much rarer? specifically food and high tier weapons
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fr. I was gonna put a comment on how that is the biggest inherent "problem" with dayz (something that could be better), is the inherent life of a player. I havent fleshed this idea out yet, but i was thinking perhaps you could have a player switch servers upon death, maybe in a hardcore mode?
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Habibabob started following How To Fix the Pity Party of Dayz
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Now hear me out, HEAR ME OUT When we all spawn on the chernarussian coast either for the first time that day or the hundredth, the gameplay loop is always the same. Get some food, maybe a gun, and run as far inland as possible. Every single player is heading inland in the same direction, because the loot spawns all the way at the top. Sure, the first time we played, it was fine. Its the exact same as every other survival game does it. But in a larger perspective focused on the detriments of it, it soon becomes somewhat stale, and subtly guides the gameplay loop into the direction that people are trying so hard to avoid. People come up with so many ideas as to why the gameplay gets so stale. Things such as repeated pois, the same path, similar interactions with everyone, and 99.99% of all geared players just being walking "you're dead" screens roaming the coast. I Partly, i think the biggest reason for the albeit realistic but certainly exagerated hostility and lack of variety is in the very basis of the spawns themselves. Coast towns are NOT special, due to the lower tier of loot and as well as how accesible they are. I believe a huge reason that contributes to immersion breaking players (the silent, stupid, and deadly ones, not the funny ones) is because every player interaction boils down to this: Coast/tier 1, people are underpowered, a few people have guns leading to power heirarchy, drama, freindship, interactions, betrayals, funny moments, cannibals, diddy's disciples, all of these happen on the coast. Tier 2 is mostly the same, just watered down. Then you get to tier 3, and interaction boils down to this: Get killed, kill people, maybe handcuff or talk to someone, but only because you shot and knocked them out first. The two reasons for this in my eyes, is due to the inherent value of LOCATION, not loot. Its about how good the loot around you could be, that naturally leads people to cut off competition without weighing the pros of not killing someone on sight, as well as the fact that if youre already that far up, you probably are GEARED AF, leading to a blatant divide between geared and not geared. One of the first ideas i had was to increase player count to perhaps something like 100. It would allow natural and less cringy factions to take precedence, as well as push more players out of spawn and into the "real world" faster and in droves. It would also just make 10-15 man coordinated groups a thing, which is fun for literally no one except the group themselves, and maybe the occasional 150 iq solo sweat in the roster. Anyway, back to the other reason. The other reason is because of how easy and unintentionally encouraged pvp is. No matter your health, pvp stays mostly the same, except for things like flanking. Sights come up unrealistically fast, compared with fast paced movement (not about speed, but fast acceleration) leading to fast paced, unpredictable combat in which once you die, the only thing you realize you could of done better is: "dang, i should have just shot him". The fix? Well, its not a fix. There are still going to be a huge portion of players who needlessly kill on sight. What matters is that life is gonna get a LOT harder for those guys, satiating the desire for hard earned survival. Its gonna be as hard as everyone else who isnt kos. Kos will always be with us, but its the fact that its easier live by the KOS code that makes it so frustrating when someone kills you. Its angering because it is not in the least bit deserved (and if it was, only you would know that) Sorry, but again after getting side tracked (i didn't, that was intentional) ... The fix? The beautiful, handsome, and the utmost highest magnitued of glazable human beings imaginable, that being, our esteemed dev team who we love very much for making dayz (please remember that guys), shift the dynamic spawns at the coast to dynamic spawns througout the map. Instead of having one direction that you absolutely HAVE to take (unless you never wanna touch a piece of quality gear in your life), you would instead be able to shift your trajectory, plans, interpersonal code, and extrapersonal interactions at will. Instead of feeling like dayz is giving you a hundred options that you can techinically choose, but the rest of the 99 choices end up with an ulitimatum of pain, now, you would be able to like, actually make choices with absolutely ZERO influencing factors other than the world around you itself (i know that could similar to how it is now, but in practice actually ON the game, its totally different). Maybe that could be detrimental in ways, like spawning right next to NW airfield. And yeah, the smart choice would be to make spawn points revolve around NW airfield. But the even SMARTER choice, is to have spawns EVERYWHERE, and the ONLY REASON THAT IS WORKS, is because it would go hand in hand with the ABOLITION OF THE TIER SYSTEM. Imagine ZERO tiers, just places and military areas. Select places like roadblocks and coastal military tents, or smaller police stations and tiny villages would have worse loot, but it wouldnt be based on general location as much as would be around common sense. It would be perfect to be able to spawn somewhere, and 2 minutes later end up with a AKM, 40 bullets, a cowboy hat and a dream. Would it though? The Third and Final tweak to wrap this all up in a nice little bow, is to greatly lower the spawn rate of weapons, and bring the rest of the weapons in the lootpool back to the populace to everyone unlucky enough to never see a heli crash in their run (like seriously, why is like 45% of all the guns in the game, and 100% of all the fun weapons like the svd, lar, and m4 have to be locked behind bogus gatekeeps like toxic zones and heli crashes?) For example, Make it so that there are only around 7 ak74s on the floor of the map at one time. There would be 5-6 ak101s, 3 akms (75 and 60 rounders are super rare, but not as annoying as toxic zones in the slightest) 1-2 m4s, 2-3 lars, 3 famases, 6 m16s, 12 bk43s, 5 sks's, 7bk12s, and so on, you get the idea. People would on average find guns a LOT Later (as opposed to the first 15 minutes), but they would find greater varieties of weapons without discrimination. And to wrap it ALL up, make ammo, clothes, food, and such things much rarer, but again, without the tier system. Make knives a tiny bit rarer, but also make knife and clothing durability 2-3x better, and make shoes durability 5-6x higher. In this ideal world of Dayz (A VERY feasible one, essentially just a little tweak in the loot system and maybe 20 minutes worth of dev time arranging spawns [they literally did a loot tweak like 3 weeks ago]) Oh yeah, i forgot to mention that the glue to all of this is to increase server count, perhaps to 70, 80, 90 (90 is a good one) 100, or even more. With these three actually not even exaggerated tiny tiny changes, The KOS rates would go down, players would be more friendly, groups would be more inclined to speak to people outside the group and go into party chat, adventures would happen more often, immersion would stay fluid, tactics would need to be more sound, survival would actually be challenging, geared guys would be anything from full gorka plate carrier with a bk-133, to a guy in a pink dress with a half loaded KAM. (from least to most extreme: the typical player would be somewhere in the middle), AAANDddd.... coast cities and towns would actually be viable (people would go there to fish or for coastal loot), the gameplay wouldnt feel like a 100mph at spawn and 5-10mph anywhere else, feel would be fluid, emergent gameplay more often, going to places would have intention, players would be incentivized to stick together (they probably gonna die if they dont), players talk more, and BEST OF ALL, GEARED PLAYERS WOULD ACTUALLY TALK TO YOU. sometimes, at least more often like somewhere between 10-50% of the time depending on situation and your charisma and people skills. Either way, making the vanilla experience (i play console please dont tell me to play community there are only like 4 good? ones, 22 okay ones that arent below 15 population) *ahem, Either way, making the vanilla experience so much more authentic and gritty, and giving us the game that EVERYBODY involved wants (except the 12 years olds that play exclusively NW airfield PvP servers, like, huh?) that beckons inmersive and most importantly, difficult survival experience. Right now it kinda feels like minecraft. But i CRAVE the Dark Souls version of minecraft RAAAAAHHHH! 🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🔊🔊🔊🗣️🗣️ (bonus points if you guys [dev team] expand the map a little more so theres stuff [not miilitary] above tisy pweaaaaaseee 🥺
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A good way to make it is so that the health goes down only after around 3-4 maybe 5 cigarette smokes. It would add a little layer of immersion and reprise to the silly billy nature of it
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this would be good. The tech in dayz is so old tho... Fingers crossed Dayz 2 will have it
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Naw bro, think about this, an improvised bow just allows a freshy to find a knife and immediately get a huge step up from everyone else. That would be fine, if everybody else didnt also have an improvised bow.
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EXACTLY BRO
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this is not good. Its like lego fortnite for fortnite, except its actually dayz rustified. Also, opened barrels collect water
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as for #1, the "situational" tool of thermal vision will be used 99% for pvp, 100%. The only thing it does it highlight players. Thats it. (and i suppose animals as well, but theyre not hard to find at all). Also, the scarcity does not nerf it. It just makes situations where you get headshot sniped out of nowhere happen barely more often. Thats not "counterplay" or "immersion". If someone has these goggles, what they are gonna do is whenever they get to a high vantage point, they will quickly turn it on and off, essentially making the battery system pointless. If they get in a fight, they are turning it on 24/7. Its basically a get out of jail free card unless the opponent get REALLY REAALLY lucky. Youre basically pushing a game in which, yeah, its unfair to fight against, but its only gonna happen a few times. So yes, because of the rarity, the encounters with it would be rare and it would hardly affect the game. But when it does effect it, 95% of the time its gonna be a negative experience for both players. As for #2, same as before. Night vision IS often a detriment to gameplay. Just because it happens less often doesnt make it any better, it just means that the player is gonna have to endure the unavoidable failure less often. as for #3yeah so unless you find that "super cool awesome high tech anti thermal vision" armor, in every other police station, then yeah, there is basically 0.1% counterplay. it hardly exists because of how rare the thermal vision is in the first place. as for #4, saying that you can totally fight against thermal vision because you can do it against night vision doesnt fully work. the ONLY tried and true method of fighting people with night vision, is to fight them at night. so what bout thermal vision, when that doesnt matter? as for #5, lets say you have a box. Just a 2d square right? and the square represents the type of counterplay, situations, loot, and everything in the game. The higher it gets, the harder it gets. what youre doing isnt expanding, fleshing out, or complicating the box, youre just adding a higher layer that is entirely dependent on time played. Its similar to the style of game like rust, just with one life. #6, the problem i personally find with that is what youre expecting players to do with it. Youre thinking of players having suspicions of another player nearby, and using the thermal vision (im gonna call it TVGs from now on) to check. Whats most likely gonna happen, is those players, clearly being geared enough to not really want anythin other than people to shoot, are going to actively seek out high places, in order to flip it on and off so they can snipe somebody. And if they get in a fight, theyre not gonna be thinking, "how can i solve this problem, while simultaneously preserving the longevity of my TVGs like a responsible and forethinking adult?", no, no, no, 100% theyre gonna be thinking "i need to NOT die right now" and proceed to flip the TVGs on for the rest of the fight or until they kill the other. It could be a geared guy with m4, or a freshy with an ij-90. #7 ah. I thought it was in the 1990s. my mistake. still, thermal vision wasnt commercially acceptable nor was it widely used in the military.
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I would say that before you begin to critzise, make sure that you have a levelheaded idea of the basic level of product that has been created. If you cant appreciate the very existence of it, its likely that you fell on the hate train.
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Abundance of ressources conflicts with survival experience
Habibabob replied to Presence-'s topic in Suggestions
Wasted all that time writing essentially a golden fully edited critical essay, put your heart, soul, and your mind into it, and get left on read. XD Totally agree with 99% of the points youre making. If i could pitch in just for that sake of throwing my perspective out there, i think that a very neccesary first step into this would be to first give immediate value to your life. As a freshy, the only thing valueable is if anyone is geared around you and your location. However, if you made it so that upon death, (just keep in mind it might be smart to have this as a seperate gamemode, like "hardcore" havent fleshed this idea out yet) You get transported to another server. So whatever opportunites, people, or even loot that you had would effectively be lost, causing a subconsious sense of a value of life. If you kill a man, at least for the day, you will likely never ever see him again. And while that may apply in dayz in some situations, it would further enforced. Plus, this is a solo+ experience. No body would want to go in together because they get split up across servers upon death, increasing the likely hood of a naturally friendly player, maybe to around 8-20% of people, while having 90% of the population use game chat. Another way to give immediate value to life is to have a preset spawn point. Now, i know this is a tricky one, i personally hate the idea alone. But, if you added this to these to said hardcore gamemode, you could tweak it just right. To give a little more free reign in terms of progression, staches and base building, you could have a sleeping bag that allows you to respawn, slowly, as you get out of bed, once a day or perhaps every 12 hours or something, idk im pretty tired rn. another way to go about this is to abolish the tiered system (not fully, just make it so thats its not dependent on how far away you are from spawn points). Make all the guns and ammo rarer, food rarer, clothing much much rarer, and flesh it out by increasing knife and clothing durability. Some areas could be farther away from the rest of the spawns, such as NW airfield, and the spawns would just avoid that location. But if you added loot that makes sense to each town, where you could go to a town and either find a tundra or an IJ-90 (not really, but the point is that youre not just gonna go into a town expecting a bk and not much else like you would on the coast) this would effectivley and smoothly remove weapons from higher teirs, replacing them with a lower spawn rate, which would seem detrimental, like, oh i just found a bk-133, cool. Too bad there an akm right next to it. The spawn rate would be low enough to not expect to find a sustainable amount of ammo by skimming towns, and likely finding a gun either in a completely fresh town by chance, or likely in the 2nd or 3rd town you find. again, havent fleshed this out, but the concept has potential. I dont want people to be shot down by some geared guy upon spawning in, but if youve ever had the experience of an ij with 8 bullets and a fire axe against a heavily geared guy, you know that its actually kinda fun being hunted like so. Plus, due to the lower spawn rate, its not like you can pick a choose. You make do with what you have, but leaving enough guns to highly encourage players to come up with intentional solutions to those problems. Idk, im pretty low on sleep right now, but i feel like introducing an inherent value to the life of the character itself would be the best first step in that direction. -
have you tried doing that before
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one step at a time.
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? uhh, literally not true in the slightest? coding it doesnt mean you have to keep everything present? it just means that you can hit a grap button, and itll take that players bodys info and paste onto a fake one that you can drag around, while the hitbox for loot follows it? thats done all the time, like why is bro speaking swahelli on something he doesnt understand?