zeald

Hello all! I love DayZ and I also love game design. I love playing the game, but I also like breaking down its components and building them up from scratch in a more robust and better way. Of course this is something Rocket and his team would like to do with a stand-alone-game in the future so I'm hoping they can draw at least some measure of inspiration from this post. I am a 23 year old game designer, at least thats what my bachelors degree tell me. In fact I'm working as a 3D artist at the moment, but game design is a hobby I can't stop doing. I love creating systems that work, and recently I've attacked the inventory system of DayZ, trying to improve what I can. Enough about me, let's get to the point! The issue of the current system The current system is not very intuitive, in fact I'd go so far as calling it counter intuitive for new players. A good game system should be easy to understand and function as the player expects it to the first time they use it. DayZ's inventory system does none of these if you ask me. The player ends up spending to much time managing the inventory when urgency is the priority. Bugs and poorly designed systems make items disappear and confuses the player. Solution to the problem As you will se further down the post my proposition is extensive. It does not only change the current inventory system, but also lays the framework for a more teambased game. With my brand panking new inventory system players will not only feel the pros of having squadmates, but it will also give players dedicated roles without introducing common RPG elements such as stats and "points" The inventory The current inventory consists of a primary and secondary weapon slot, a inventory, a backpack and a tool section. Where different items are categorized is not very intuitive, it feels like they are placed where they should not be. Like bandages going in the secondary ammo slot, and primary ammo going in the inventory. I propose a solution where each player has a maximum carrying capacity of 48 slots from the start. The 48 slots are devided between four categories: Backpack, Medic Pouch, Ammo Belt and Toolbox. Each item the player finds go in one, and only one of these categories. A bandage goes in the medical pouch and a magazine for the primary goes in the ammo belt. Each of the categories requires a storage item, such as a 8 slot backpack or a 10 slot ammo belt. These should of course be lootable in the game. Lets say the player starts out with a 6 slot backpack, a 4 slot medic puch, a 4+4 (will explaint his further down) slot ammo belt and a 4 slot toolbox. Thats 18 slots of the total 48 slots taken. If the player finds a new 16 slot backpack, thats 28 slots taken. So this is roughly how my new inventory system works. What I think this will do to the game is that it will give players certain roles to commit to. A medic would have s huge supply of medical items, letting the assault players carry only what little they really, really need, going all in for ammunition and explosives. The scout, or looter, has a huge backpack and is ready to run into Stary Sobor's tents to grab with him as many guns as he can, together with food and water from the supermarket. But what if they find a broken down car? Don't worry, the engineer with only one primary weapon has a huge toolbox with all sorts of car parts ready to go. This new system would have to add a bunch of new conteiner items such as backpacks in different sized. Backpacks with 28, 32, 36 and 40 slots should be available, but the rarity would of course increase with the slot capacity. You probably noticed the 4+4 ammo belt I mentioned earlier. The first of the numbers define the slot for which the player can store ammunition for the primary and secondary weapon. If you have a lee enfield the ammunition for this would first and foremost go into this category. If you find a granade or a magazine for a AKM it would go into the general ammo belt conteiner, defined by the last number. A ammo belt with 6+12 can then carry 6 primary and secondary ammunition, and has 12 slots for other ammo items. Its only the last number that defines the space the ammo belt takes up in the overall 48 slots. http://img822.images...yzinventory.png As you can see here the player has all his 48 inventory slots taken by a 24 slot backpack, a 6 slot medic pouch, a 8+6 slot ammo belt and a 12 slot toolbelt. If the player was to find a 30 slot backpack and wanted to use, then he would have to remove one of the bags already in place, or switch one of the other bags in with a 6 slot smaller one. The ammo belt has 8 slots for ammunition for the primary and secondary weapons, 4 for each. The player can drag empty magazine slots and drop them in the grey ones. This will remove one slot from where you dragged it and add one to where you put it. If you dragged one slot from the secondary to the primary in this case you would have 5 ammo slots for the primary and 3 for the secondary. NOTE: Backpack: Food, Drink, Weapons, Night Vision Medic Pouch: Bandages, Painkillers, Bloodbags, Morphine, Antibiotics, and other medical stuff. Ammo Belt: Granades, Smoke Granades, M203 Granades / Smoke, Magazines for other weapons Toolbox: All current tools, vehicle parts, traps / wire / sandbags This is a rough layout of the inventory system I propose for a standalone game such as this. I would give the incentive to join groups and take on roles. The numbers seen in the post might have to be refined for optimal balance at a later stage, though the message I want to convey should be clearly communicated. I hope you enjoyed this read, though it might be a bit long. Feel free to bash my idea or give me constrictive feeback! ZealD, out!

Don't really get why you feel sorry for me, but ok. I do what I love doing :)

I like the idea of weapon degradation, though I think it would work better if it degraded when used, not over time. If the weapon got less reliable just by having it in your inventory players will feel the need to dispose of all their bullets as fast as possible. It will make it a realy call of duty shooter. Make it so that each shot the player takes will have a consequence on the weapon. The player needs a brush to clear the chamber, find a new barrel to repair a broken one, etc. Good suggestion :)

While my idea limits the overall freedom as opposed to a custom inventory like you propose, it adds a class-based system to peoples characters. That was my intent with the design. Sure I could have made a design that has no limits to where people put their things, but that would not really help me down the path im taking. Thanks for the reply though! :)

Thanks for the feedback :) When I first thought of this system it was because when playing DayZ I wanted to feel unique in one way or the other. I wanted my character to be important in a team composition. I wanted my teammates to think "We can't raid Stary Sobor untill our looter / raider is on". A rigid class system would not do in a permadeath game like this. As stated before on the forums "Don't get attached to your gear". It's basically the same as saying don't get attached to your character, and thats exactly what you do with a rigid class system.

Thank you for the feedback. Was there anything in specific they didn't understand? Did you ask: Where does the painkillers go? Where does the food go? Where does the hatchet go? Where does the granade go? Again, thanks for the feedback :) Will iterate on the design

I've read your post before, and I do believe we have come up with two different solutions for the same purpose. Both our ideas adds a new debth to the game where players can now take one dedicated roles in a team, like say an engineer or a medic. The only real difference I see is that my solution has a more focus on ease of use as you call it, and your seems to be more complex. While I agree with you that DayZ is not a hilbilly camping RPG I still think that the simplicity behind my design will work well in the game's current state. Frustration is good to a certain extent, but if you force frustration upon a player in situations where they really don't need it they will have a bad time. My purpose with this design is to make a understandable system that everyone can figure out really fast, but where some thinking needs to be put in order to make it suited for yourself. For me as a designer I love keeping things simple and to the point. The gear and inventory system is the first thing a player meets in DayZ, if you overcomplicate it many players will just stop right there. Keeping a system simple but highly functional for both new and experienced players is what I think I've done here. I can see the maximum slot number of 48 might be reduced, to make the decision even harder. I can't see how drag and drop functionality would not work in DayZ, it's as close to real life as it gets - you drag and you drop. As for game design schools leading to more cookie/cutter games out there I guess that comes down to the qualities of the teachers. All my teachers have urged us into thinking out of the box, creating experiences that will leave people thinking "why didn't I think of that?". And no, I'm not a student, I'm finished with my bachelors degree in game design :)

A small update, including a small sketch I've created to follow with the explanation. (Why u no picture?) As you can see here the player has all his 48 inventory slots taken by a 24 slot backpack, a 6 slot medic pouch, a 8+6 slot ammo belt and a 12 slot toolbelt. If the player was to find a 30 slot backpack and wanted to use, then he would have to remove one of the bags already in place, or switch one of the other bags in with a 6 slot smaller one. The ammo belt has 8 slots for ammunition for the primary and secondary weapons, 4 for each. The player can drag empty magazine slots and drop them in the grey ones. This will remove one slot from where you dragged it and add one to where you put it. If you dragged one slot from the secondary to the primary in this case you would have 5 ammo slots for the primary and 3 for the secondary. NOTE: Backpack: Food, Drink, Weapons, Night Vision Medic Pouch: Bandages, Painkillers, Bloodbags, Morphine, Antibiotics, and other medical stuff. Ammo Belt: Granades, Smoke Granades, M203 Granades / Smoke, Magazines for other weapons Toolbox: All current tools, vehicle parts, traps / wire / sandbags

Thanks mate! Got any spare mountaindew?

In my "final" game design document every aspect of the inventory management, including object interaction.

The inventory system is probably intuitive for someone with knowledge of how military gear is actually worn in real life, but most gamers don't really think about that. I would argue that they want a system that is easy to use and easy to understand, and doesn't take time to research to comprehend it. I believe you can have a complex inventory system like I have proposed that not only changes the inventory but also adds a whole new game mechanic, and still keep it super simple and intuitive for both old and new players.

I think you have misunderstood my concept, or I have probably not described it thuoroughly (no idea how to write this word lol) enough. The player starts out with 48 maximum slots, not 48 usable ones. You might start out iwth a 6 slot backpack, a 4 slot toolbox, 4+4 slot ammo belt and a 4 slot medic pouch. That is 18 slots of the total 48. You have to find a new backpack, medical puch, toolbox and ammo belt to gain more slots, but you cannot have a total slots more than 48. In other words, you can chose to have a 30 slot backpack, a 4 slot medic pouch, a 6+6 slot ammo belt and a 8 slot toolbox. This is where the roles, or classes come in. An engineer might have a big toolbox but chose not to have any medical pouch, and a sniper wants a lot of ammo and food / water, and another primary for close quarters, so he takes a big ammo belt and backpack.

I do appreciate your feedback, and you have some good and valid points to adress. I think we have two different takes on the current system, and I think mine would would boost DayZ tacitcal aspect. Keeping it simple is all well and good, it's important not to over complicate things that will only confuse the player. I don't believe any player would be confused by my system, since it's pretty obvious what goes where with the names "Medical pouch", "toolbox" and "ammo belt" etc. The restrictions to where you can place the items was set so that players themselves can create what role they want. This becomes especially obvious when in a team. I think it would create a lot of debth to the game without removing the freedom from the players :) Again, thanks for your feedback! (and yes, I have served :P)

I have a mock-up on my noteblock, so I'll see what I can do :)

What I've written here does in no way or form include all elements of a new inventory system that would have to be implemented. I agree with you that there are several other issues with the system that needs to be adressed, but including all of that in one gigantic post is not going to help you the readers or me the writer. I am in the process of writing a game design document for this inventory system, and it includes issues like drag-and-drop and UI elements.

Thanks mate, I really appreciate your support, and I love beans!

Forcing someone to become a zombie, in risk of having to run around a empty town for ages on end trying to find cowering players? I don't think thats a satisfying thought for more than 5% of the DayZ community, and not a game design idea that would work properly in DayZ.

For an added teamplay effect you could make it so that bodyheat transfers. As long as you stand close to another player you will recieve warmth from him. This will be great in situations where it rains and two randoms meet each other in a sheltered barn, where they must stay together to keep warm.

My point is that I fail to see your logic. This game is not harmful for a normal thirteen year old kid. It's social, its funa nd it's engaging. All of which as aspects that I would argue benefits a healthy teenager.

Go play kittionline PEGI is in fact guidelines' date=' not a set of rules you need to follow. There is no age limit to the PEGI system, it only states that it's recommended that you are above this age to play the game. If you are refused to purchase a game because of the age "requirement" that is a shop-policy, not a PEGI law. A seller can set rules like that, PEGI cannot. [/quote'] PEGI exists for a reason. Kids shouldnt play violent video games all day long. In fact, they shouldnt play any video game that much. They should hang outside, with sun and fresh air. But instead they become overweight couch potato at age of 5. Gaming and obecity does not have a direct link. Iv'e been a gamer since as long as I can remember, and I'm fit as can be. Besides, PEGI does NOT base their age-recommendations based on what a 13-year old should or should not do in their spare time they are purely based on the content of the game.

Go play kittionline PEGI is in fact guidelines, not a set of rules you need to follow. There is no age limit to the PEGI system, it only states that it's recommended that you are above this age to play the game. If you are refused to purchase a game because of the age "requirement" that is a shop-policy, not a PEGI law. A seller can set rules like that, PEGI cannot.

I believe you are the bandit in that equation, at least if I read your post correctly. Just a comment to Dave "Survivor" Bat. - You state in your comment to the post that you are friendly, but shoot people if they approach with a gun. How is that considered friendly? Do you really expect people that see you to put down their gun and walk up to you? Just wondering, because a lot of "friendly" players seem to have that attitude, and in my opinion that is no-where near friendly. A friendly player should not shoot unless provoken too. A friendly player should try to communicate orally or written through chat before shooting. Its not your attitude that is the problem, I've got the same exact one. But calling yourself friendly is a lie :)