Avant-Garde

Makes no sense tbh, I played this game since they launched the alpha thing and it wasn't dumbed down. If you think the old controls were better in any sort of way, than this isn't even a matter of opinion, you are just objectively wrong lol. They were a pain in the ass and completely "unatural". There wasn't a single thing realistic about it, was just clunky and honestly pretty dumb. Now, if you are talking about survival aspects, then you are also objectively wrong. Everything was worse compared to how it is now tbh. The clouds were better tho. Maybe you are talking about the damage indicator thing? Honestly man, who cares, makes no difference at all tbh. Besides, if muh realism is the argument, irl you would know from which direction you got hurt. I can't see how or where the game was dumbed down, and I follow this game since the mod days. What I see is a lot of missplaced nostalgia for what was once a real bad game but with a very singular idea. Now it is a good game, a great foundation to build uppon. Before this shit was barebones man, everything was fucked up lol. Is it perfect? Well, far from it. But it is a great game, and one that no matter how you put it, will never be casual. At least the vanilla experience. If you want to see casual dayz, there are plenty of really dumbed down servers where you start with food, knife, tons of loot around, infinite stamina etc. Vanilla dayz isn't and wasn't dumbed down tbh. Anyways, I'd ask you to point me where the game was made more casual.

Wow, our corporate overlords must be so glad to have a holy moral knight like you deffending their profits on the funni zombie game forums. If it wasn't for you, I bet these nasty poor people would have already broken the economy! Such a short sighted profit over people view... And you dare say that other people here are being imature. You licked corporate boot so hard with this post that you made me log in, I haven't been on this forum for more than 4 years I think lol. Well done. Btw devs, game is fucking great. I can't stop playing it. 10/10. Last time I played it was probably in 2017 and holy shit, this game improved A LOT. I legit can't stop playing it! I remember when you guys annoucend the new animations and stuff, and to see them all in game is just great. Great job tbh

That is true man, I do believe that once someone maks a pubg mod, this game is gonna blow up in popularity again. It has a much better shooting mechanic and balistics, better guns, better map, better graphics, better melee mechanics etc, it is overall just a better game, much more refined and well made imho. I would love to play it man, but indeed it would have to remove hunger, thirst, zombies and probably even stamina and all that, basically dumb down the survival aspect to focuss on the deathmatch side of things. Would be fun I think.

Holy shit devs, this is AMAZING! This game is gonna be awesome I'm sure of it. I can't wait to test the new melee system! I am sure it will add a lot of deph to gameplay overall. Really good job tbh, I'm really hyped for the final product, I think this game is going to make a really huge success, specially once mods come out. Now that Pubg kinda made this whole survival thing even more popular, DayZ has again a golden oportunity here imho. Damn, I miss this game. Can't wait for the next update! Everything looks great, what a amazing job you people are doing. The reloading animation, damn it looks good. This game already had great shoting mechanics and feel, this will bring it to a whole new level.

I dont like this kind of thing tbh, that takes control alway from the player and plays a animation. But I wouldn't mind either, I just think it really breaks immersion and its kinda useless. Imagine, you do this stealth animation, but you see a player coming in your direction mid-animation. Now you are stuck in this goddamn animation of doom. Game took alway your control, you took a bullet in the face as consequence.

Actually, I think the players are way too big, or the interiors and houses are way too small. I had a thread even about this subject, with photos and all for reference, take a look brother: Maybe they changed the 1pp camera so its on a lower position on your body and not actually where the eyes would be; but in 3pp, or if you observe another player close to objects, you shall see how small things actually are. Its kinda funny even, sort of thing I can't "unsee", its like, chairs are way too smal for someone to sit on them; stairs in buildings like that huge one in Novo barelly fit one person; the player's feet is way bigger then the steps on a stair etc. Big proportion problems tbh that can easily break immersion. BUT, I played the last patch for a really, REALLY short time just to test how my new computer runs the game (runs great btw), and haven't actually tryied to notice things to give feedback as I used to do you see, so they might have rescaled the player models, and this thread I did is no longer valid and I'm actually saying some mad shit here. Unfortunately I'm posting from my sister's notebook, can't get into the game to see it myself and post images, but images are quite good to make things clear man. i'm waiting for the player controler thingy to get back into DayZ.

Elektrozavodsk and Chernogorsk are the best place in my opinion, sometimes I wouldn't even go inland and just hang in these places watching hell right in front of me, some times taking part in it. Funkmaster Rick described it really well!

No, better yet, lets leave the game with this broken ass melee instead of trying to improve it somehow! I mean, although I understand DayZ will never have a melee as good as Mordhau, I don't think that this accomodated posture is good tbh. Fact: melee is a problem, not only atmosphere wise because it ruins your suspetion of disbelief, but from a realism standpoint its also REALLY bad its not even funny (realism is one of the core elements in this game's vision right?), and from a gameplay standpoint, it is not fun, doesn't offer a interesting mechanic or experience. Its a bad element in the game and something has to be done. Now, what must be done? Well I don't know it honestly, because I don't understand how this engine works and I don't know the devs vision about the subject. What I know is other games that has melee mechanics, and that are good, so you know, when talking about melee, what would be a good system? Chivalry, M&B, Mordhau etc. Its like, a discussion thing you know. Doesn't mean I want this game to be like mordhau, although it would be fucking great if it had its mechanics!

Its a shame you bought Chivalry so late, I guess that if you live in EU or NA you probably will still find servers to play with people. Even here in Brazil we still have considerable number of active casual players. Chivalry is mostly dead competitively speaking as far as I understand it, because the game is quite... unpolished for competitive play tbh. Its great fun nevertheless imo! I've lost like 2500h of my life in that game man, I get obsessed with these sort of games you see, complexity makes me very happy

It might stop being full retard like it is now, but will still be really far away from good. For me, good melee means that you will have to deal with deep mechanics, like in Chivalry or M&B, where its not simply a matter of strafe + spam but requires strategy and skill.

You know.. the only thing on that list that really bothers me is melee. I can live with the rest with no problems even because I think most of them should be gone once game is finished. Now melee on the other hand.. very uncertain imo. Who knows what they plan to do about it, its a mistery as far as I know. Its the discrepancy when you compare the firefights with the melee fights that makes me so sad. Firefights are so good, feels awesome. Melee fights are immersion breaking.

Yes, and I don't play this game for quite some time, as my potato PC doesn't even allow anymore. Its frequent even today. I usually dream I'm in a firefight. I find it all very funny, I actually like these dreams. I mean I wish I knew how to draw so I could show you how it looks like, but its like real life mixed with dayz. The way I hold the gun for example, how the gun works, the DayZ windows from some houses, those red containers in the port of Chernogorsk, the chainlink fences etc, but I'm never in a place that reminds of Chernarus. Its a city, middle of the forest or at beaches, but not the ones we see in DayZ you know what I mean? But these places have VERY familiar DayZ stuff and "feel" The thing most noticiable about these dreams is the feeling of danger. I mean its intese as hell! I never had a real firefight experience, and I guess DayZ is the most realistic thing I saw about firefights so, my brain takes DayZ situations to make me shit myself when I sleep by making them ultra realistic. Usually when someone dyies, the body kinda falls like dayz ragdoll you know. I feel like I'm playing, but with real life material and I'm literally in the game, idk how to explain really. I don't know if this even makes sense at this point lmao I guess the HUGE suspention of disbelief caused by firefights in this game kinda impressed me big time, and this is something this game does in a way no other game do, these devs did such a awesome job on how the firefights feel its not even funny. I even dream about it! Fuck this makes me want to play DayZ so bad, really want a new computer tbh

Oh hello Mr. SMoss! Nice to hear a dev word about the subject, as I thought it was a forgotten subject even. But Mr. SMoss, realisticaly speaking, wouldn't it take a real long time to implement and test a solid melee mechanic? Its not even mentioned on roadmaps or devblogs. My point being: melee is something as complex as idk, vehicles or deseases maybe, due everything that must be added then balanced and we barely hear about it, I know that you guys plan to work more on melee mechanics, but what are the plans? What do you guys plan to do with it? What mechanics are planed to be added etc, I feel that there are no solid information about it, as we don't know even the concept of the melee combat you guys want to archive. Like, will it be somehow like Chivalry, where you have a turncap for attacks and you must time and angle your "parry" correctly? Or will it be simpler like M&B? Or even, are you guys planing to do something singular for dayz, like a mix of known melee mechanics that fits the engine limitations etc? --- In my experience in melee games Mr. SMoss, melee fights don't last long enough. They usually end in less then a minute due how fast people attack each other, and this experience is in games that has slower attack aniations then DayZ. If fatigue is supposed to affect melee, then imo it should be something that for example, punish you if you miss attacks. So you try to hit someone, miss, you take a big stamina damage. If the attack lands, no or very low stamina damage. What would affect greatly melee combat is a turncap when your swing animations are dealing damage, so you can have this "momentum" thing that doesn't allow people to become goddamn helicopters while swinging; slower movement from characters as well, so you can actually hit something and running like a headless chicken is no longer a thing; and clearer attack animations. Notice that Mordhau video, swings has sort of a nice shader that calls your attention to the fact that the swing is dealing damage exacly where the weapon is going through, it kinda draws the damage tracer in a suble way. This helps people visualise what is going on and how they should be aiming. Even if a parry mechanic is not something realistic for DayZ due descincs etc, these three changes would already make melee combat more pleasant because you would be abble to understand what is going on, although it would still be a spam-and-run fest because only defensive manuever you have is to run. Now, a parry mechanic would do wonders, parry mechanic by itself, even without those factos above, would already drastically change how melee plays on DayZ, even with people running fast as they do.A parry mechanic is useful for regaining initiative in a melee fight, it is what breaks with the spam logic. But for it to work this way, some sort of "ripost" mechanic, or a "recovery state" on the attacker's end is needed, so when someone parry a attack he can gain back initiative and force the attacker to go defensive. Otherwise the attacker can just keep spaming and forcing his opponent into defensive, that can do nothing but run like headless chicken, which kills the whole point of a parry mechanic. Parry mechanic + riposte or recovery state would kill the immersion breaking run-and-spam fest that is melee nowadays, because if someone attacks me, I parry and he tryies to run, I'm gonna riposte on his back big time, or hit him due this "recovery state", where he loses speed for a really small fraction of time after being parryed. It forces people to stand and read carefully your next move after being parried. All this increases the need for good animations though. Good here means well telegraphed. One must know clearly when the attack is going to land, clear animations provide this. Chivalry, Mordhau and Mount & Blade also have sort of a HAAAA, IAAA sound characters make when the attack starts to deal damage (in Chivalry its called "release phase"), so you can really know when its going to hit you and you can react properly. And all this on the PVP aspect, the relation betwen player X zombies would change big time as well imo, as it wouldn't feel like bullshit fighting zeds with melee weapons because you can deffend yourself. You guys could make zeds to "feint" attacks lmao, it would be hilarious to see poor little noobs having a hard time read wtf the zed is doing, and also it would still make them formidable foes, but in a more fair way then the bullshit it is now. I say its bullshit because you can do nothing about it but take the hit to the face, its quite unfair and frustrating tbh. Sorry for the long text man, its that I'm a real melee enthusiast, I would LOVE to see good melee combat in a game like this

Yes man I agree! If netcode, engine and this sort of thing allows, they could go crazy on melee mechanics and the game would be great Imagine the situation, you have a old rusty rifle and a psycho with a bat full of nails shows up screaming,you try to shoot him but your weapon fucks up and get all stuck, you two strugle in melee for a while but you know, in a coherent way, with both attacking and deffending, running at a reasonable speed and avoiding each other attacks etc Just the fact that you can have a person right in your face trying to kill you and you have to react to what this person does, makes everything intense as hell. And I speak with Chivalry and M&B experience, imagine this translated to DayZ, where even firefights are intese as fuck. Melee now on dayz is pure luck, you can't even understand whats going on tbh

The thing with DayZ melee is that it has the basics of a very VERY nice mechanic, that is present in these games above. That would be the real time strike with melee, where you should use the swing animations to aim because they matter, different from L4D for example, where melee is hitscan and the animations means nothing at all, in games that use hitscan system for melee, you aim with the crosshair and where you aim is exactly where you are going to hit. DayZ needs some sort of parry or dodge mechanic and reliable netcode to have decent melee combat, the first and second video I posted should give many arguments to why some sort of deffense mechanic is a must-have thing on melee combat. But before deffensive mechanics we need better animations, because you need to react to them if you are going to deffend yourself. Also we need balancing, because some weapons are usable while others are completely useless. Some are completely stupid even like the pitchfork, try to sidestrafe and attack at the same time with a pitchfork lmao 10/10 It would need a lot of love to be decent tbh, that is, if the netcode or engine even allow such thing to exist in the first place. But I do think that solid melee would make this game something else, ten times better and more interesting in my opinion. Melee fights are scary as fuck, and also very personal, you guys gotta play Chivalry if you haven't so you see what melee can be in first person shooters.

Only way they can fix this is to not render any player, zombie, loot or player placed things like barrels and shit, if they are not in your character's field of view. People would cry a lot because of this, because the very core reason people play 3rd is because it is easier. It wouldn't make sense in playing third person to a lot of people.

Good post tbh, I also like shotguns as secondaries, especially that one with the grip thingy, I don't really like the idea of having to aim perfectly good when I'm panicked so shotgun or something that shoots too many bullets in a very short time span are the ideal secondary for me.

I like to play these music here when I go to airfields or military bases Feels tacticool man. I think that for music work in DayZ it would have to be carefully composed having in mind the different situations players experience (boredom, thrilled due combat, scared etc) and be dynamic, so if the player is in a house surrounded by zeds something like Silent Hill OST starts playing, or if in a firefight in a military base, a song that conveys a nice guerrilla feeling (like them old c&c games) would be fitting. But I don't really know if all this fits in DayZ tbh, maybe if only we had silence and panic music. By panic music I mean shit like this: To play only when you are really going to die by them zeds. So you are being shredded to pieces and a song like this plays along.

Remember that most of the melee fighting will be against zeds. Against players yep I agree, your gonna get shot in the face tbh unless descinc gods are on your side This tbh, at start of a new char we could have the melee like it is now, one single kind of attack, no parry, no dodge, dumb as a brick. But as you kill more and more zeds, you learn how to "parry" their attacks, how to dodge, how to chain multiple directional attacks, how to feint in order to parry and avoid getting slapped in the face etc, so you could take multiple zeds at the same time, due the fact you "unlock" these abilities that makes you a better melee fighter. Makes you waste less bullets with infected, as giving more playestile choices to deal with this pest.

Mate the only thing I know is that in practice, melee is nowhere near something finished. Even if it is going to stay "strafe and spam", animations needs to be better. Some weapons are useless because the animation is so bad its not even funny. We need a console command or a launch parameter that makes possible to see the damage tracers like this pic here: This would allow us to see perfectly whats wrong with some weapons and animations, that would lead to better feedback over the melee subject.

Or we could find in castles a rare medieval spear as "end game spear", one of those huge ones with metal tip and all, maybe you would need to carry it in your hands all the time, because how the fuck do you put something that big on your back. But it could have huge reach and damage output.

Why zombies can't use axes or crowbars, even wood planks and shit? It would be fun in my opinion, would add to the challenge. This + better melee mechanics would make the game quite fun as I see it, also open possibilities for zombies to break in locked places, if they have the right tool for the job. I mean, these dumbass zombies are not really fun tbh. Why can't they be smart enough to use melee weapons?

This is a great post tbh, my personal grip is with the animation as well. We need a animation that favors the use of the reach, pitchfork has the same problem, as the animation don't thrust properly. Especially if you are pressing W+A and attack, the animation goes all over the place and its impossible to hit something in front of you, as the animation goes almost 90° to the left. Its broken, really, needs fixing at some point. I mean, we need a GOOD thrusting animation, in this video here, notice the Spear animations of Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, there is a underhand thrust and a overhead one as well. The underhand one goes REALLY far, the overhead one is faster but shorter. In my opinion, DayZ should use the underhand one, as this attack is the one that makes the spear different from everything else. Melee, even if they don't plan to add more mechanics to it, needs a shitload of refinement. All the animations feel really fast/uncontrollable to use, if the animations on two handed weapons were just a bit slower, it would do wonders to melee already. We could use a sensitivity cap when the attack animation is playing as well, so people don't just helicopter weapons that use a horizontal slash animation, and makes more confortable to aim as well.

Holy fuck the conversation got really interesting tbh, all you guys got good points in my opinion. I agree with Chaingunman about the replica thing and how it doesn't really fit into the game. When I ask for a halberd, I was thinking more of the replicas we got now. We have a 1 handed blunt weapon, a 2 handed sword, and I think that a polearm, especially the halberd, is quite iconic to have as well, you see. What Chaingunman said about formations is really interesting because its true, halberd would be more of a teamplay weapon. So thinking about the finished game, where probably shooting won't be the smartest idea to have in a big city, if players have the melee option, then imagine a gang of players using melee weapons, a "halberdier" would be damn useful. But as WhyHero said, we could easily just use spears to archive the same halberd effect on teamplay in my opinion. Its just that I think them halberds looks so cool man, I would love to use one in DayZ! I would be proud to show off my halberd lol In confined places Mr. Chaingunman, I think halberd is still a good choice IF you can stab with it. You can use footwork + the range to keep zeds away, of course I agree with you from a realism standpoint but from a gameplay standpoint, I think its a highly viable weapon because in melee fights, range plays a MAJOR role. What you speak about the fact that if a zed get to close to you, you are fucked, I also agree with this. But here is the beauty of this thing, if you are a GOOD melee player, you will never let anything get at face hug range (thats really not hard, even in 1xN situations). Especially against a stupid ass enemy like a zombie. Remember that footwork plays a major role in melee. I think it would be especially cool if we could hook players in motorcycles/bikes/horses with the halberd lol, a nice horizontal slash to the chest with the hook part, pulling the driver to the floor probably with many broken bones. Imagine if you hit him in the head oh fuck, halberd is a gruesome weapon tbh. As I see it, its kind of a potentially very versatile weapon if used right.

I think a Halberd would be cool tbh as a end game rare melee weapon. Great against zeds due the fact it can chop, slash and stab. Plus its huge range makes it rather attractive when you think about the fact you can kill shit from afar in melee, potentially silent, free from harm (goddamn zeds hit trade like shit in this game, range would help avoiding those nasty zombies hit trades). Halberd when pls, make melee viable devs! Just look at it, isn't it beautiful? I would totally use a halberd in a zombie apocalypse tbh, make it so you can't put it on your back, you have to have it in your hands all the time! I would be a dedicated halberdier