Avant-Garde

Got agressive because you refuse to discuss and keep denying the idea with arguments that makes zero sense, not because you disagree with me. You feel free to do that, but at least elaborate on the subject. Fuck I want that too man, bayonet fightings would be awesome. Do you have more videos of fights with modern weapons? I mean, imagine if this was implemented in DayZ and we had stab, overhead and slash, how do you think it would be done with a weapon? How to slash with it or overhead? Maybe these should not be valid for firearms melee and it has only the stabbing attack and the parry. Maybe the butside of the weapon could be used in slash idk, also as the overhead and then stab for the bayonet poke EDIT: Take a look at this man, kinda interesting for the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ygwgX8H3S0#t=175

There are many arguments on my post and you chose to ignore them. Ok then, sugest something. How do you think melee should be improved? What a piece of shit argument lol, are you disagreeing for the sake of it? Wanna discuss for sport? Imo you should either start talking or simple don't post anymore. You are posting like those people who come here and "NO" or "NO DAYZ KNIGHTS PREASE". Read the thread man, get into the discusssion. What would be a good and complex melee system for DayZ?

Are you telling me that, if me and you had a baseball bat, and I swing the bat to your face you are not trying to parry me with your bat? Your gonna stand there, wating to have your head smashed? You would try to avoid that in some way man, and making a simple moviment with your bat to stop my swing is a very efficient and intuitive way to avoid getting hit in the face. Thats how melee gotta work in this game imo, not mindless swing and strafe and let God chose who lives. Also, just look at Chivalry videos man, there is nothing there that even reminds us of real sword fightings ahahhahhahah, thats pretty much how anyone would try to use a sword. Stab, overhead and slash, nothing of pro medieval fighters there. I don't want parry to be implemented exactly like Chivalry, it would not fit this game. But some basic mechanics from that game would be a great adition to DayZ because they are realistic, like the hability to parry something and make multi directional attacks. If not, why to even have tracer system? What will be the use of this mechanic? The devs should then add a simple hitscan model, call it a day and stop wasting our time. They don't even have to care in having good melee animations with hitscan model and melee fighting would be exactly like it is now, dumb as fuck.

On a side note, here is a exelent video showing in depth Chivalry's mechanic: Good melee gameplay imo, making this all less competitive and more realistic would be the way to go for DayZ I believe.

There are fist fights and daggers aswell, and the smaller the range of your weapon, the less you will be able to "dance" on your opponent. Strafing will aways be there unless its quick time event OR 2d combat. Even in real life fights there is a lot of strafing ;-) Problem is, in DayZ you ONLY strafe and spam lmb, there are absolutely no other tactics to apply in melee combat, lacks depth and it only gets worse on the PvP side of things. Quick time events are way to different from what the game is imo, and we already have the tracer system on which is the basic concept of the combat of Chivalry so, would be kind of a waste of work to make the tracer system then put quick time events. I believe its better for us to expand uppon the tracers, make it complex, deep. 1) I believe this is kind of a necessity, really. When you thing about good gameplay X authenticity, good gameplay should AWAYS prevail. But, that also doesn't mean we need those over telegraphed animations that chivalry has (its a really fast game after all), UNLESS DayZ devs think its a good idea to add feinting. Then it MUST have over telegraphed attacks so you can tell the difference between a real attack and a feint. 2) Thats something DayZ wound't need. In fact, imo not even Chivalry needs the weapon to colide only during release but these more are devs decisions, and not really a limitation of the whole tracer system melee I think. The last part I believe we go into the authenticity X good gameplay again, where that is good gameplay for Chivalry but I do agree that it woudn't be nice to have in dayz 3)Parries in fact are directional, the parrybox is indeed huge but you can bypass it with either a slash, a overhead or a stab. Some attacks you have to really turn to your sides to deffend or else you take to the face. I agree about the huge parrybox being kinda bad, imo it should be done with the model of your weapon (at least in DayZ). Clashing would do GREAT to Chivalry's gameplay in order to avoid forcing hit trades.. Maybe Chivalry 2 who knows. Holdable parry I think its a bad idea, make feinting and delayed attacks useless + requires less skill so it would kind of dumb down Chivalry's gameplay if it was implemented, because that game is all about timing. You need good timing, good reflexes and get creative to bypass that huge parrybox lol. The most important thing I believe is that Chivalry uses this gameplay mechanic as something competitive, doesn't need to be realistic. DayZ don't have this huge limitation of balance, so it can be even more brutal. What I'm eager to see in this game are the bare basics of parry and multiple directions of attacks. Who knows maybe even comboing attacks or feinting! I have no idea how a game can add in a good way grapling and all that, it AWAYS suck dicks when they do this. One thing I cant stand man, is the game playing itself for me, "press A to watch you opponent die while you do nothing but press A".

Hmm I understand what you are saying. But Tracer system is also pretty different from the traditional ways melee was always done. Take a look at Chivalry for example, these are some really really fucking good players dueling in it: Notice how the fight got initiative, you can't simply spam in this game or you are DEAD. Imo it looks quite good, never seen any other melee game that the combat looks better, but this is my opinion only man :)

Imo quick time would be worse to implement because it takes away control from the player, there is no skill involved and the fights can get really predictable. With the tracer system that we already have, they would just need to change melee weapons timings so they get readable and add a parry funcion (that imo would be better if you could not hold it down, but had to time it right, so you can trick your opponent in parring early/later and also, this helps to avoid that every fight will be attack/parry/attack/parry until someone runs out of stamina). Add this to multiple directional attacks and fights will get really unpredictable/dangerous/fun, gives the player a lot of ways to bypass your opponents parry. You see, to parry attacks efficiently you would need to be good at reading weapons timing/direcion and all that, its something more to master in the game which imo is always a good thing.

You know, a parry is any moviment you do with your melee weapon to avoid your opponent melee weapon. I belive even monkeys parry lol. Now seriously, I'm not talking here about adding incredible medieval moves and shit, parry is something you would do by instinct in a melee fight, maybe even feinting too, not spamming retardedly and circlestrafing, this doesn't even exist. How can this game even call itself realistic when melee fights lacks for example the basic concept of initiative? Gud melee makes survival more authentic.

Would be nice to have a dev talking about the limits of this engine/game about melee, so we can have a base to discuss realisticaly what would be a better melee system for dayz You add a lot to the whole discussion posting like this man, thanks for the contribution! Thanks man, english is not my first language so I believe my posts can be a pain in the ass to read or I might not express myself the way I really wanted to. You said it in a much better way, thats exacly what I mean

Your first argument is based on reality, and this is a game and imo it should be thought like that. I agree with the low ammo idea, haven't thought about that in my first post and I actually think its a better option then making firearms all rare and shit, because as you said, you can also use them as melee weapons whitch is very nice imo. I believe we both agree on what is most important, melee system needs to be more complex because the use of firearms will be lower in the future, either by less weapons or by less ammo. Also I was reading again your first post and you said this "Melee combat is 1) scary 2) hard and 3) a good way to get injured, even if you win.", and I think these are three very solid arguments on why melee should be improved. A good melee makes the game more brutal, and now it is kind of a imersion killer if you think about it. Run arround your opponent and spam is what mostly happens, also lags and descincs but getting rid of these will not magicaly make melee more deep and imersive You see, as you said, there are few moments where you really need a firearm, and usually are moments where you screwed up and has a great chance to die. Most of the time it wont be this situation, will be stealth play and all that I believe. So thats why I say they should focus on melee, because it will play a huge role in this game. Thats the reason why I think they shoud add as much as possible to melee combat, to make it a enjoyable experience. It has the basics of something very cool that imo is worth to invest

I believe you missed my point sir, that is that firearms offers little risk to its wielder and make killing easier, and every survival game out there is more of a PvP fest then survival itself (DayZ included) so, to help the survival elements, I believe firearms should be really fucking rare so PvP gets less intense, due the fact that there is way more risk in starting a melee fight even against a unnarmed person then shooting someone. BUT, to make melee combat viable and fun, they would need to add and polish some elements. I take Chivalry as a reference because the base of the melee system in DayZ comes from that game, that is the Tracer system. So, imo, DayZ should have more elements of that melee mechanic and aside from server and lag things, I don't think there would be so much trouble to add said features, because the very basics of that mechanic are already in. Also for directional attacks and parry, I believe that lmb, rmb, scroll up and down, mouse button 4 and 5 are easier to implement and more intuitive, but idk what you said also sounded nice. On a side note, anyone with a boomstick and half a brain can set up a ambush. Its easy to ambush someone with a boomstick, even more in this game. Now try to ambush someone with melee, you will think 2, 3 times if it is really worthy. Makes killing someone even more banal.

Wow that would be awesome too, like clashing you say? Seriously, this would be great The number 2 Chivalry solved by adding sort of a negative acceleration of the mouse when you are in the release phase of an attack, so you can't drag your attack in one direction and completely change it mid release, or make a slash and turn your mouse like you are a fucking helicopter. This helps aiming a bit too, since you use the animations as reference and the camera kinda gets heavier. This means that the more smooth your mouse moviment is, the better you can control your attacks. To add the complexity of a medieval combat game there would need SO MUCH more things man, parry/block and windup/release/recovery are pretty basics to make the thing flow. Adding feinting for example, brings in a whole new level of complexity to it.

Very nice indeed, but I do believe they will take this out since its not realistic. I mean, how the fuck would you hit 3 persons with one swing? You have to be a really, REALLY strong person to chop through 2 guys and still have momentum to kill a 3rd one! Man, they should add a Halberd imo, they are already adding medieval stuff, why not a halberd? I mean, its the best melee weapon there is, great for "castle" defense. A halberd in a zombie appocalipse is all I ever need lol. Would be the M4 of melee weapons

This game melee system will be so nice in the end, can't wait to see the tracers matching perfectly all the animations. Also decent animation for pitchfork and many others prease :) I find that hockey stick rather good tbh, you must drag your mouse right to left smoothly following the animation, if you do it right its a easy weapon for headshots thus one hit killing zombies. Its range makes it viable, different from the baseball bat that is shit. One thing I noticed, if you run pressing W+A or W+D with some weapons and swing it, the animation will be completely broken, of course this is most noticiable with the pitchfork ehehe, but almost every weapon has this bug in animation. If they plan on adding block/parry there is still a lot of work to do before it imo. For those who play Chivalry, in DayZ you can also do b0ckswings lol. I killed a zed using this but I do not recommend

People shouldn't use teamspeak imo, it makes you stealthier and impossible to know what the group is planing to do. Just like the outside of the game map, imo its also cheating. I was saying exactly all that in my post. I don't KoS unless its a big group, otherwise I'm always "friendly". Also I don't use this name ingame so good luck with that.

Man, have you even read my first post? Because it seriously looks like you didn't. In fact, looks like you are not even discussing with me due the nature of your arguments. You WANT me to be the KoS guy (when I am not) so you can convince me that I am wrong. Just stop and read my first post man, please, this discussion will go nowhere if you stay like this.

I should play COD or BF4 because I find hard to trust strange people in groups?

I'm not saying the game plays this way as a whole, all I said was based on my experience because thats what everyone can say about this subject, their own experience. And groups so far have been pretty hostile to me. Sorry, I will kill you and your friend, unless you guys don't have a gun or as you said, you stablish comunication. Maybe in the future this changes, when the game shifts towards survival, but now thats how I see it.

When I see a fresh spawn I usualy shot his legs or something, then help latter. Some people start to cry "hey man I have nothing man why you are doing this", thats where you go and help. I mean, if you are all friendly and nice people will try to stomp you, so kick their ass first to show who is in charge. Fear will be your best friend, you gotta show him all the time that you are "unstable" and he can take a bullet to the head at any moment for no reason. But you help him, in the end it was good for him. I usually have clothes and shit so I give this all to the person. Now if the player has some gear, this will obviously not work and he will go full defensive if you are that agressive. In these situations your best bet is to have the drop, show him that you could have killed him but you didn't. Again, don't be all nice and friendly, show that you really could have killed him, but you chosed not to. Imo this creates a basic trust between you and the person you want to make contact with. The first seconds will aways be the worse man, as people already said, its the tone of the voice but also if the person speaks the same language as you and many other factors. Experience reveals more of these factors I believe, you get good in this (thou I'm not very good I think) Its pretty fucking hard to be "friendly", but its fun man. The best thing is that you really cannot attatch yourself to your gear if you want to be friendly, and you gotta test many different approaches and see what works best for you, that means the game will really not play the same everytime. You see, you miss this part if you start to ONLY KoS. I KOS myself, but only when people are in groups. I like to play alone so groups are the real risk with their TeamSpeak hack and shit, they are rarelly open for strangers and will most likely troll you to death lol

The one I can find ammo easily is the best imo. I would love to wield a AK class weapon, but I have never seen theyr mags so Mosin, that lever action rifle, sporter 22 and shotguns are the best for me.

Thats a pretty nice article OP, thanks for the read man!

But thats what makes being a fresh spawn so fun man, at least for me. Its the most fun part of the game imo due the big risk everyone imposes on you. I don't understand why you want to make the game less enjoyable for someone else man, killing fresh spawns is part of the game.

I would not say melee weapons need a buff, its to early for that. The problems are in the tracer system that is obvioulsy not done. They will have to remake many of the melee animations in beta so the it gets good. Melee should be balanced only when they manage to match the tracers with the animations, so the tracer system actualy is used for something because now its useless. Lol its so bad it gives a bad name to this mechanic, but I believe Bohemia that the end product will have gud melee.

I have great patience my friend you would be amazed. But seriously, its a great idea man

I would camp the shit out of these tunels!