sabaka (DayZ)

Perfect 3 sentence summary of the entire point of this thread.

http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/Products/ColtAdvancedLawEnforcementCarbine.aspx -So a weapon that weighs less than 7 pounds is too heavy to use standing without support? I think not. -Red dot optic makes it harder to shoot while standing? Have you ever seen or used a red dot optic in real life? My r700 with a 4-16x scope is much more difficult to use standing, but that's a little different from a non-magnifying red dot. - M4 needs constant cleaning? Here's a real life stress test thread: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=521547 It seems like a lot of these real life users can go through well over 1000 rounds of surplus ammo without a problem. Since the ammo in game is presumably quality ammo since it's found in military bases you should be good for several thousand rounds. Just require use of weapon cleaning kit every 2.5k rounds. I personally doubt that I've shot more than 500 rounds through one specific M4 in game, maybe your experience is different. -M4 does not adequately incapacitate targets? That's complete drivel. If an unarmored human takes a center of mass (or certainly head) hit from a 5.56 round coming out of a rifle they're going down. Period. If you think otherwise it's time to stop watching movies and live in the real world. Did you even watch that ballistics gel video I posted earlier? -Reliable bullseyes at 300m. On an official 100yrd rifle target the black is 6-3/8" diameter. Any practiced shooter, with proper optic and sling (which I realize is not in game but I have one in real life), while standing, should be able to hit a target that size at HALF of a rifle's effective range fairly reliably. If you look back at my gun porn picture, the three of us who own all those shoot most weekends. We'd be happy to have you along and demonstrate if you'd like. When we're shooting rifle we prop up clay pigeons (which are actually only 4.3" diameter) at a variety of ranges and fire away. After a few shots to get the zeroing fixed in our heads they go down pretty reliably. Now if you want to make the case that Joe Average sucks at shooting, so the M4 shouldn't be accurate past 50m that's fine. But if I can't hit a person sized target with an M4 at 100m in game then I shouldn't be able to hit a cow at 100m with the Mosin. Considering I've seen someone get sniped from 300m+ with the Mosin in game I'd say something is wrong. edit: just for fun: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~loebinfo/loebinfo/Proportions/human1.gif Here's a link to standard human dimensions. The torso target box is 1'-6" by 2'-4". Make a target that big and anyone who has ever shot a gun before should be able to hit it with a properly zeroed optic at <300m basically every time. As far as lethality a shoulder shot may not kill you outright but don't tell me you'd take a 5.56 round through the shoulder and then jump back up and fight. With the way the bullet yaws you'd almost certainly lose complete use of an arm and might go into shock.

Teamspeak is clearly cheating. As stated it allows you to communicate without being in close proximity to someone. Additionally texting or messaging your friends to ask them if they want to play with you is cheating. Running places is a huge focus of this game. If you want to play with your real life friends you need to run to their house (in real life), let them know you're going to get on when you get back, then run home. Otherwise you alert them that you're going to be online, and possibly tell them where your character is in game and on what server, without letting their roommates or spouses or other people in their house hear you and what you're doing. This gives you a tactical advantage.

The original point of this thread was that the M4 in game should be more accurate than the Mosin in game, not wildly less accurate. Also in "a survival scenario" I'm not sure what you'd personally prefer, but in THIS* survival scenario you'd be a fool to not take the M4. The fact that that isn't represented in the gameplay is a reflection of very poor weapon characteristics in this game. The developers need to either state that the intention is weapon balancing to encourage using all of them, or get it right. *This scenario: -weapons don't really degrade -ammo is everywhere for every caliber -zombies -50% of idiots you meet will try to kill you on sight. An additional 25% will try to kill you soon after. Many of those idiots will have M4s. -You have to go to cities or towns every few hours or you starve

-My M4 has a 3 point sling, a magpul handguard, and a primary arms red dot optic. Hitting a stationary human sized target while standing still at 300m would not be a particularly difficult shot for you, me, or anyone else with experience with the gun. It's the newer generation Colt law enforcement series with the monolithic upper and full floating barrel so quite frankly the gun is far more accurate to ranges up to and far beyond 300m than I will ever be as a shooter (Colt claims effective range of 600m on their website, and I have to believe that handguard, sling, and optic increases that) -Did you not read what I posted after the muzzle energy numbers? Would you rather be run over by a truck going 70 mph or a train going 70 mph? It doesn't matter. You won't notice the difference. If bringing down a charging rhinoceros is ever part of this game you might have a point, but we're talking about shooting humans. 5.56 has plenty of stopping power. Anyone who thinks that taking a center of mass hit from 5.56 won't immediately incapacitate you has been playing too many video games and almost certainly never seen a 5.56 round or fired a rifle in that caliber. edit: gratuitous gun porn: (both the rifles on the top right are mine. When zombie time comes if I can only have one the bolt gun is getting left behind.)

I'm glad to see a good discussion here and there are several points that keep coming up over and over that I think bear responding to. 1- AK is a better end of the world weapon/AK makes more sense in this game. Absolutely true. I'm not sure why you would implement an M4 and not either an AK 47 or 74 in a Russian state. Additionally the AK is the gold standard for assault rifle reliability. It may be less refined and less accurate than an M4 but when cleanings are few and far between and conditions are rough the AK is likely the go to weapon. 2- Even in real life Mosin would win long range engagements. Maybe. Someone suggested that at 300m+ the mosin would win. Patently false. Standing still I may not be able to put every shot in the 10 ring at 300m with my M4 (although I probably could, my M4 in real life has a magpul handguard which as I'm sure you're aware increases accuracy by 100000%) but I could certainly hit a human sized target 100% of the time. In a realistic situation with both combatants moving the M4 has a massive advantage. Fire and miss? Just shoot again. No racking. Also in a run and gun fight at 300m you might well miss your first 5 shots. For that mosin that means you're in big trouble. The M4 has 25 shots left. Additionally 3 round burst is pretty critical if pinpoint accuracy isn't possible (firing while moving at moving target) and the M4 gives you TEN three round bursts in a normal mag vs only 5 shots for the mosin. The mosin might win if the game was snipe the unsuspecting survivor at 600m or more. Be honest though, in this game how many people have you killed at 600 meters? Is that extra reach worth knowing that you're dead to rights if someone manages to get within 100m of you at any time? I love precision shooting, but if I need to live in dayz my Remington 700 (the base weapon for the M24 sniper weapon system) is staying home and my M4 is coming. 3- 5.56 lacks sufficient stopping power/7.62 is a better man stopper What? The 5.56 round packs around 1500 ft-lb of force depending on the load. The 7.62x39 is around 1700 on average. This might be the stupidest argument against the M4. Do you have any idea what EITHER round would do against an unarmored target? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOYPxiRldaE Gun forums love to argue whether 9mm is enough for a self defense round or whether you need .357/.40/.45. There's generally good debate on both sides with the consensus that 9mm is plenty against an unarmored target. 5.56 from an M4 is ~5 times more powerful than a 9mm round coming from a pistol. To claim that 5.56 wouldn't stop someone dead in their tracks is asinine. Is one round more powerful? Yes. Does it make a difference? Only in weird bullet penetration, ricochet, armor piercing edge cases. For what we're dealing with here (rifle bullet hits person wearing regular clothing) the question of which caliber you'd rather take a hit from is like asking if you'd rather drown in a pool or a lake. Is a lake bigger? Yes. Does it matter even in the slightest? No. Would you rather be run over by an F-150 going 70 mph or an F-250 going 70 mph? Even though the F-250 is bigger you won't even notice the difference.

I'm confused. If you're half as awesome and skilled and determined and dedicated as you seem to think you are why does it even matter to you what other people do? Surely you can kill "inferior humans" cleanly and quickly in game so the injured thing shouldn't even matter to you. Think of it as a way to give us less capable people a fair handicap so playing with someone as talented as you can stay fun for everyone. Also don't feel like a celebrity being interviewed. If you're not serious then feel like a successful troll because everyone is feeding you, or if you are serious then feel like an embarrassment being mocked.