bad_mojo (DayZ)

That's a great theory. But, how would we go about enforcing it? Why wouldn't clans using teamspeak join that community and get an advantage over the rest of us? I'm not saying the game should enforce a ban on teamspeak, but I'm saying enforcement could only really happen by changing the game itself. (For example, a difficulty setting that hides server names & player lists)

Exactly, people can whisper and all that. But teamspeak adds none of that to the game. Let me give you an example, you meet some dude in Elecktro, you team up and run around for a bit. You watch your new friend closely and nothing seems strange, but unknown to you, he is on teamspeak with his friends and plans to kill you once you've loaded up on supplies and his friend gets there. In real life (or a future version of DayZ) you would be able to see him whispering into a phone/radio, even if you couldn't hear what was said. Raising red flags and making you suspicious. Rocket was pretty clear about the authenticity he wants with regards to the radios. I'm sure if you asked him if teamspeak was a suitable placeholder he would have doubts.

So... in cases like this 3rd party stuff, it's hard for you to see what is right or wrong because it's not specified in the terms of service? Ok, here's another example then, people cite the radios being added as a reason to add side chat back in. But, why did Rocket remove it in the first place then? If rocket wanted teamspeak to be the voice chat of dayz, it would be more clear. He has outlined his plans for the radios pretty clearly, he has emphasized how authenticity is an important part of the radios. Assuming teamspeak is a good place holder is assuming you know what Rocket wants in the game.

How is it not clear to you that this sentence... means that respawning is unrealistic, therefore we shouldn't use realism as a argument? I might not agree with his statement, but it seems pretty clear. Nowhere in that sentence did I see mention of invading the rights of players, or changing the arma2 terms of service, or whining about meta-gaming.

Except if I was on the radio or cell phone with a friend, a person standing next to me could hear me talking into it. Also, you could pick up a radio or phone off the bandit you just killed and listen in to his buddies. Can't do any of that with TS. You assume you know what will be implemented and the limitations of it. I could assume the game will include some advanced base building mechanics down the line, does that justify the use of scripts to spawn structures? Of course not.

No, but you're getting into way more detail than simply reiterating that one sentence. Applejaxc took it as people surviving for a long time is unrealistic. Which I'm pretty sure isn't what Inception meant, so I offered my opinion of what I thought he meant by that sentence. Your post might reflect his opinions, but it's not what he meant in that one sentence. At least I don't think it is, perhaps I'm wrong, so I said we should leave it up to Inception to correct who ever is in the wrong.

How about we let Inception correct me if I'm wrong?

He's saying that mentioning realism isn't allowed because respawning exists in this game. If everything isn't 100% realistic, then nothing has to be. It's a silly notion, I'm surprised it's used so much on these forums. Is that a private server? It sounds great.

Surely you could have found a better quote than that if you're going to call him a dictator. All that quote says is how frustrated he is at the usage of 3rd party solutions. And how much better is was when people played by the rules.

For me, it's not so much about stopping them. It's about changing the public opinion of doing it. Even if people still do it, but accept that what they're doing is wrong. That's still better than what we have now, people arguing for us to "drop it". Edit: if you're interested in how to prevent this type of behavior... I had the same idea as SausageKing... or a couple of my threads on similar topics might be worth reading... http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/27591-playing-with-friends-good-for-the-community/ http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/78512-better-than-teamspeak/

The problem with these discussions is that people like the OP and I call 3rd party apps cheating, and then people take it as we're on a crusade to get everyone banned and then people proceed to argue about how that is impossible, un-fun or "it's not called cheating". We bring this stuff up because it's against the spirit of the game. We bring it up because it is changing the game we play. We bring it up because it was all possible when DayZ came out, but people had enough respect for what the mod was trying to be, they played along. It's sad that "cheating" (or whatever you will call it) is so widely accepted by this community. We've got moderators fighting to keep people in a gray area of exploitation.

(suggestion for standalone mostly, doubt it could happen in the mod) So how about this... when you decide to log off for the night, you have to make a camp and sleep. But, it wouldn't be a procedure for just logging off, rather your player would stay in the world until you came back. Why? Well, it just seems so fake to despawn from the world and respawn the next day. Your character stays completely safe while you're offline. It goes against the nature of this game. The safest you can ever be in DayZ is to be logged out. Shouldn't you be safer when you're awake and alert? Wouldn't it be great to stumble upon a campsite with multiple geared up survivors fast asleep? All their loot just sitting there for the taking? Or perhaps you get off on killing, so killing them becomes all that easier. At the same time, wouldn't it be great if DayZ became more group oriented, and safe camps were setup and guarded at all times? Wouldn't something like this give more meaning to forming groups? People always claim they shoot on sight because other people aren't an asset, but if they helped keep you alive while you weren't online, would you be so quick to pull that trigger? Maybe they'll double cross you and steal all your stuff when you go to sleep, but that's all realistic human behavior. I'm not really sure how this could be enforced without screwing people over all the time. Maybe give people a short period of time (1-3hrs) after quitting(without camping) to reconnect, after that their character gets wiped. But, that would still be aggravating for people who might lose power or internet randomly. What do you guys think? Edit: Since people are replying without reading any further, I just wanted to add that I think there should be a max time to sleep. Let's say 5 hours. After that your sleeping bag despawns and you're safe until you relog. I'm not trying to turn the game into a 24/7 career here, I just wanted to have sleeping become a part of surviving in dayz.

Yeah, but cooking with flames isn't ideal when you're talking about meat. If you cook over flames you're just going to burn the outside and the inside will still be raw. A nice bed of coals is better for cooking. But, I like the idea of more types of fires. Maybe even have different sizes too, so if you're trying to be stealthy you start a small one but if you don't care you'd build a large bonfire so everyone can see it and come join you.

Emotional? I'm just asking for more detail. I'm not the type of person who sees the words "TERRIBLE IDEA" in red font and immediately has my mind changed. But hey, if it's just a gut feeling and you can't explain your thoughts, not a problem. Thanks for the feedback.

I'll worry about stuff like that when Dean is fired from the project OR if some big company like Activision or EA decides to buy the rights to DayZ.

Not everything is cheating. Why the fuck would you want to 'meet my standards'? I'm not running a server or making the game. Feel free to do whatever floats your boat. You even quoted me saying that. There's nothing for me to get over. I have no problems with any of this. I'm not asking for persecution against teamspeak users. I'm just here trying to share my opinions about why I think it's cheating. Cheat all you want, I care not. If you (or anyone) wants to have a rational discussion about this, speak like a mature adult without throwing in subtle insults and questioning my intelligence. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're any less intelligent. Please, be as blunt and critical of my words and ideas as you wish,(god knows I will be about yours) but just leave the personal insults for the school yard.

This thread is pure gold. I love seeing the defensive reactions people have over the suggestion they're cheating. The "logic" they spew to convince themselves they're not is right up there with WarZ fanboism. Except for the direct chat, I don't use any of those. But, if I did I'd be confident enough to admit it's cheating. I don't give a shit how other players play their dayz, but when they try to say it's not cheating, I'm not going to sit silent. Cheating being "too strong of a word" is fucking hilarious, what are you guys....12? You can sugar coat the word, it's still cheating.

Is that a new map for DayZ? #1. Search function? You're six months late on that pro tip. #2. Realism, because we live in the real world. #3. Then some people die and lose their gear. OH THE HORROR! #4. Fuck whitelisting.

Why put so much effort into convincing yourselves it's not cheating? I cheated when I first started playing DayZ, I used a loot map to figure out where all the good loot spawns were. Calling it meta-gaming or whatever is silly, it's cheating and I cheated.

If it made no sense you wouldn't be so passionate about keeping it out of the game. Why is this going too far? Enlighten me please, I'd love to have my mind changed on this suggestion. Right now, it appears to me that you dislike it because it means extra "work" for you. Am I mistaken? Is there something I'm not seeing?

Just accept that you and most players of DayZ enjoy cheating in this aspect. You believe that a communications system needs to be in the game, so you're assuming you know what the game should be. Perhaps I think the game should include everyones positions on the map, does that mean I can use ESP hacks and say it's not cheating? Nah, it's all cheating. You're circumventing limitations set by the game. It doesn't fall into our hands to decide the direction this game will be going and get there ourselves. Perhaps the world of cycling is heading towards a blood doping community where athletes do everything medically possible to win, and that is accepted. But, going there yourself before the rest of the sport accepts it and includes it, is cheating. I don't see how anyone can say it's not cheating. But I can understand how people accept the cheating.

It's tough to have any sort of debate about stuff like this when it comes to DayZ. It's too easy to dismiss it all as meta gaming, or just for the sake of fun. How dare anyone dictate how others play their games. Few people ever approach the topic from an objective point of view. Looking not at their own intentions and interests, but at what would benefit the system the game is trying to achieve. Is it cheating? Yes, it is. I have yet to hear any logical reasons as to why it wouldn't be. It's like texting your partner during card games, no matter how you justify it, it's cheating. I have to agree with Anubis, While it's cool that the zombies react to pressing the chat button, it only encourages people to use 3rd party solutions. It was hard enough to get people to use direct chat before it aggro'ed the zombies. I've literally been killed by players because I was reluctant to get on their 3rd party application. The sad part is I didn't really blame them for killing me, they just did what was in their power to better their situation. The same way they decided that using skype was better than using the in-game voice chat. It's like when a game has a glitch, and everybody is abusing that glitch. An overpowered weapon, an extra strong vehicle, maybe a mission that gives too much credit. Point is, when everybody is using the glitch it becomes harder for the people trying to play it legit. People who were attracted by what the game is trying to achieve are being peer pressured into cheating the system. If you don't cheat, you can't compete. It happens in a lot of video games, and it sickens me to see so many gamers accept it with open arms.

Combat logging would still be a problem with this sleep system because people could simply log in to another server or within the given time and move or bandage or do whatever. Sleeping would only affect the people who decide to log off for the night in the middle of NWAF, for example. In my opinion, logging off and logging in are some of the most immersion breaking things in dayz. I'm looking for ways to make those actions have more meaning and also require thought and care when doing them.

Make sure your other filters aren't hiding the servers. Was it still set to 'DayZ origins' in the mod box? I usually filter official servers with more than 20 people and less than 120 ping and get about 10.

I've found the existence of side chat to be a telling factor about how a server will be. If I join and see that blue text, I just abort right away and make a note of it in DayZ commander. Most of the time servers with side chat enabled will have 500+ vehicles, starting gear, with added buildings, no darkness.& detailed kill messages. Not my cup of tea.