No Classes PLEASE

i know this may come as a shock to you, but you don't need 644 posts, any knowledge at all about the original mod or even any extensive game knowledge about the standalone to know that Dayz SA is an open world pvp sandbox. to anyone whos played one before or has a bit of common sense, that means KoS will always be a factor. so yeah, if you don't like it, you probably SHOULD play something else. posts like yours make me chuckle every time.

just to repeat: no, it wasn't.

oh my god you are clueless. and yet another person criticizing somebody's reading comprehension when their own is fucking terrible. the "imaginery internet position" that i was referring to was that of the people you seem to agree with who think the game should be redesigned to punish killing players through a game mechanic, which goes completely against what this game is all about. and your example of people cheating in CoD...? er, uh, wut? what are you even talking about? what does that even have anything to do with whats being discussed in this thread or your original post? you said that the "mature" players are the ones giving "sensible" solutions to the KoS "problem", which is just plain not true as all the ideas are extremely bad. maybe if you stopped fixating so much on stereotyping people's ages based on their playstyles you'd realize that. nobody's talking about cheating, or CoD, except morons like you that constantly bring it up as if its relevent and that in doing so it somehow puts you above other people who may or may not have even played it. i don't play CoD, but it sucks as far as i'm concerned and it has nothing to do with DayZ other than they both have guns and a first person view. you're all over the place and you barely make any sense, and i promise you it has nothing to do with my reading comprehension. keep attacking people over literary semantics, post count and making accusations and assumptions about peoples age on an internet forum since you obviously have nothing real to say.

actually i do know what it means and the use of the phrase there is fine in that context, as well as my reading comprehension. yours on the otherhand you might want to check since you did nothing but prove my point with your post.

its funny how people like you try to distort the issue by suggesting it has anything to do with maturity and the age of a player. stop trying to take some kind of moral high ground because your position is weak and your ideas are trash. and honestly are you trolling or just stupid? not a single idea suggested by any of the KoS whiner crowd is even remotely reasonable. every single suggestion wants the devs to completely rebuild game systems or dumb down and restrict existing ones to cater to the way you think the game should be played. the only sensible suggestion has been about improving zombie numbers and ai, which is a general consesus among most of the community that we already know is coming. but there is no "solution" to KoS because it's not a problem, it's a part of the game and how it was designed. it's what you signed up for when you bought this game, and if you think otherwise then this must be your first full loot pvp game, in which case welcome to reality. if you don't like it too bad, it's a playstyle thats inherent to a game of this type. PvP happened in a PvP game. get over it.

do us all a favor and take your own advice. this thread is bad, the idea is redundant and people in favor of this kind of thing are poisonous to the game along with their misinformed views on real world bahavior and the human mind. some of you vastly underestimate the human psyche and what people are capable of, without remorse, especially in a threatening post-apocolyptic environment where resources are scarce. some people may be bothered by killing. a lot wouldn't. add an option to pick a "faction" at character creation; Humanist or Realist/Survivalist. people who pick humanist can enjoy these little "sanity/stress" systems in the game while others can be left alone to play as it was meant to be played. a full loot pvp sandbox with no restrictions and silly systems in place to hinder freedom of choice.

this is the huge issue i have with the anti-KoS/pvp people. "sanity", safezones, classes, and other garbage suggested are not only stupid but gamebreaking, and ruin the core design philosophy of the game. once zombie density and ai is improved, and frankly even without that i think the benefits of grouping are simple and already in place: strength in numbers. reaching much beyond that is only an anti-KoS attempt because you don't like it, and if that's the case it's your own fault for getting involved in a full loot pvp game. i am open to non-retarded suggestions on how to create a bit more incentive to team up with people that don't rip at the fabric of the game though. as for all the people concerned about weapon and ammo spawns being too plentiful and whatnot, as others have mentioned it seems pretty straightforward to me that this issue will sort itself out when the rest of the guns are added to the game. there will be more types of firearms and equipment able to spawn in the hotspots making it harder to find the type of weapon or ammo you need. some small tweaking either way may be required, but i don't think it's as big a deal as some make it out to be. i think availability of choppers when they're added in is a much more legitimate concern. i don't like the idea of seperate hives for PvP and PvE as it will only split the community more and hurt the life of the game, but as pointed out by Mystogan i'm sure there will be PvE private servers anyways so if people want to dork around with that they can and they will. oh, and to all of the "Go back to CoD" kiddies, as you're so fond of saying; how bout you take your head out of your ass. that argument is so incredibly asinine that you should probably get checked for brain damage if you're doing anything but trolling with that statement.

i read your post and it was dumb and misinformed. the only thing hurting this game is your anti-pvp mindset and your insistance on trying to get the devs to force people to play the game the way you think they should by nerfing and removing things to cater to your playstyle. only idiot here is you. yeah, ok, you got it, literally no one spends hours attaining gear to go pvp with it it. nope, of course not. proposterous. who the fuck are you to say what people do and don't do with their time and gear? what else is there to do in the game especially in its current state? go run around in a pathetic attempt to rob people by shouting orders through voice chat as if anyone gives a flying fuck and isn't going to just combat log or try to kill you anyway? go hunt wallhacking zombies? "enjoy the scenery"? lol. you're a troll and i'm done feeding you. have fun using your 16 hours worth of gear to do nothing.

yeah, i'm 100% sure you spent 16 hours on your last char doing things the right way. more like you server-hopped your gear in 16 minutes. see what i did there?

actually thats exactly what i do but its more like 4-5 hours. this isn't the first ever full loot PvP game. i played Darkfall before the devs pissed the game away and spent several hours at a time on a regular basis farming materials to craft gear and collecting regeants for spells, only to go out and potentially lose it in an instant on a ganking run or in a siege. but i bet you accuse anyone that takes the time to collect good gear a server hopper when the reality is you're too lazy to do it, and you justify that by berating other players that aren't and have the balls to go pvp with all the high end shit they spent hours finding. this argument is so incredibly weak its laughable and its this type of garbage that made me feel obligated to post on this thread to begin with. telling people to go play CoD/CS/TF2 etc because they want to kill people in the game, is like me telling you to go play Diablo or Borderlands to do a co-op item hunt or post on facebook and reddit to get your little social fix that you so desperately try to force on everyone in this game. i'm not ignorant enough to make a silly suggestion like that to you though because i know better. this game offers unique aspects that are few and far between in games today. you will not get that same type of adrenaline rush in Counter-Strike as you do in Day Z when you get ambushed by somebody and popped and lose all your gear, or narrowly survive to come out on top and reap the rewards... only to be finished off by someone else while looting their corpse. you don't get play for keeps, for the higher stakes. just like you won't get your fix of scavenging supplies and socializing with players trying to form an alliance to fight bandits while staying on your toes and being wary of your comrades for fear of betrayal in the games i mentioned, or whatever the hell it is you do for fun in Day Z. i can't imagine enjoying the scenery and shooting nothing but zombies with your cache of guns and ammo can keep you entertained as any kind of extended end-game scenario, but if it does... well good for you. i'm not claiming to be any sort of hardcore pvper, but you know what the difference is between people of my mindset and yours? you're always the ones crying about KoS, asking for KoS punishment features to be added, demanding that gear spawns and military bases be REMOVED from the game, and all other sorts of nonsense. it's that kind of carebear shit that ruins games like this and i just hope the devs are smart enough to ignore it. while i may not care for your style of playing, i'm not sitting here pissing and moaning that the devs should start stripping away parts of the game and dumbing it down to make things less threatening for me and bottlenecking everyone into being forced to cooperate all the time and not PvP in a PvP game. because thats what Day Z is, whether you like it or a not, it's a PvP game at its core and PvP is the endgame. you're in for a very rude awakening when release hits and all the "PvP" players who are bored to tears from the monotony of the mainstream titles come flooding in and make it their business to make the game miserable for you and your friends 24/7. this whole group survival thing, will be just that, a thing. some people will do it, and clans will obviously do it within their own ranks, but the majority of the game will always be a KoS fest because of the nature of the game design, and the nature of people.

please stop just thinking about the game as a running simulator or wilderness hiking game where everyone should just ignore weapons and high grade gear and stare at bushes out in the wilderness, hold hands and sing kumbayah with everyone they encounter. yeah, shame on everyone who spends their time collecting the best gear and weapons so they can, you know, go PvP (effectively) in, *gasp*, a PvP game! if you want to stand around and dork yourself off "enjoying the scenery" and not hop into the hot and heavy action at Balota and other pvp hotspots, thats fine. i'll enjoy my scenery while on the way to collecting gear. stop berrating other people for "not navigating" and playing the game your way. look, as it stands right now, theres only 4 firearms in the game. as they continue to add more and the game gets closer to launch, there will no doubt be a lot of balancing of the rarity and locations of certain weapons and ammo. right now things are tuned for easy accessibility so people can test it out, enjoy it and get into the action. i'm looking forward to when high end gare becomes harder to find, but until then i think its in everyones best interest to just enjoy it while it lasts. just know that people will ALWAYS gravitate to the areas where the best loot is, and where its easiest to obtain, just how shit works in games and real life. no need to cry about it.

a skill system like this would be much more appropriate and more in line with this type of game than a crappy class system. what all the people that support classes don't seem to understand is classes will never be balanced and on an even keel; one class will always be more powerful and useful than another. its just the nature of the system. it works better in some games than others, but people are always going to gravitate to the most powerful and accessible one.

i'm sorry but, what? by adding a class system you're doing exactly that; RESTRICTING freedom. this game is a gem because its one of the few open ended semi-sandboxy games on the market right now and probably will be for quite some time. classes are nothing but bad for this game and they don't belong at all. a skill system like the ones mentioned above are a far better option.

i usually don't post on game forums but i care a lot about the direction of this game and i have to get my two cents in here; for the love of god, DO NOT ADD CLASSES TO THIS GAME! when i read the OP i was expecting him to get flamed off the forums for this kind of suggestion and was disturbed to see how much support it garnered (albeit i imagine the forum population isn't huge right now, especially given that this is a paid alpha). classes bring a lot of problems with them and are the kiss of death for a game like this. i don't want to derail this discussion by turning it into a debate about other games, but i do want to compare DayZ with another game that it has a lot in common with; Darkfall. the original Darkfall was a full loot, FFA PvP game with item decay and emphasis on resources and gear like DayZ, but in a fantasy setting instead of a modern post-apocalyptic zombie infection scenario. everyone had access to everything, all spell schools, crafting professions, etc. it had a steep skill grind, but there were no classes. the devs of that game had promised an expansion that was going to improve a lot of the systems already in the game and fix a lot of problems (macroing, scripting, hacking, bunnyhopping). what wound up happening is they scrapped the expansion entirely, and decided to make a new game on a new engine. long story short, they completely lost sight of the original vision of their game that was so unique and loved by many, that the new game turned out to be a much WORSE version of the original game, with missing features, dumbed down gameplay systems, worse performance, safe zones and a class system. and guess what they've been spending all their time doing with all these critical issues to tackle (besides marketing to Asia as a F2P in a last ditch effort to keep themselves alive)? Balancing classes. the game is a monumental failure and is broken beyond repair. luckily you guys seem to actually be using a better engine, and the performance is actually quite impressive for an alpha. i've played betas in far worse shape. but the minute you add classes to a game like this you're introducing a whole new slew of problems. for one, theres always going to be that one class thats just better than the rest. that means the devs have to dedicate a lot of time to balancing classes, when they could be spending that time on adding more features, zones, improving performance, or any number of other things that would make the game better. that power may shift to a different class from time to time, but its pretty much an ongoing problem for the life of the game. that's the beauty of a classless, everyone-can-do-everything system. you don't have to worry about tweaking the power of different roles and waste precious development time that could be better spent elsewhere. it's naturally balanced because everyone can do everything, your only limitation is the supplies you have on hand. also, do you really want to be dependant on other players to be effective in the game? i know a lot of people roll with clans etc, like any game of this type, but what about when you're playing by yourself, or solo players? do you really want to have to use 10 bandages to successfully stop your bleeding when you got nicked by a zombie that lunged at you from around a corner, because your skill is too low? or worse yet, not even have the ability to stop your bleeding at all because you decided to be a pilot instead of a medic? by adding classes your going to introduce the whole 'tank/healer' problem. everyones going to be running around as the soldier, few will be playing the medic, and even fewer will want to be that cook or pilot. i don't understand why everyone thinks this will stop or even reduce KoS. KoS will always be a major part of this game, and for most the norm. classes or not. it's the nature of a full loot PvP game. in fact as others on this forum have pointed out, it IS the end game. its what you do once you've got your gear and maybe some buddies (that or robbing people, but how long are you really going to be satisfied running around with a bunch of gear guns and ammo and not shooting someone?). i do think the game could benefit from a little more incentive to not shoot someone on sight, maybe some kind of triggered events that are tuned to require multiple people to complete with improved or unique loot rewards? i don't know, i'm all about adding more depth to the game as long is it doesn't stray too far from the original formula, but classes are not the answer. to me, the fact that most people DO want to kill you is part of what makes the game so great. you constantly have to be on your toes and aware of your surroundings. the game isn't about killing zombies, it's about killing people, taking their stuff and not getting killed in the process. i think anyone that plays this game thinking its not a PvP game and just a survival sim is kidding themselves. if you really have a problem with KoS i think you're playing the wrong game. please, devs, if you read this, DON'T make the same mistake Aventurine made with Darkfall. maintain the integrity of your original vision, don't sell your soul for a shot at the masses. from what i've gathered you have sold a lot of copies for a fairly expensive paid alpha (which i'm enjoying a lot i might add), and there's a reason for that; people want this kind of game. 200,000 people didn't buy this game for classes, i promise you. in fact i'd bet my bottom dollar a significant amount of those people wouldn't have bought it at all if they ever even heard that word in relation to this game. if you absolutely have to do it, go with the skill book idea, or some kind of perk system, but make the benefits very minimal and affect things like speed of application and control of a vehicle, or the amount of food cooked, whatever, but largely inconsequentual. but anybody should be able to do anything effectively, the main barrier being whether they're using proper quality materials versus makeshift. PLEASE DON'T ADD CLASSES!