LeoIvanov

To all the folks talking about 1st and 3rd person + a bit about the "server lock". - 1st person vs 3rd person. As far as the development has gone in this game, there is no reason DayZ should enforce 1st person over third person, since all of the work they've done on the player animations will now be useless, because all you can see now are hands and torso/feet if you look way down.. Which serves not much purpose anyway. More to it - if you play 1st person all the time, all of those funky "suddenly stop/drop down/unable to move" things will be more annoying as you won't be able to tell if your char is stuck on something or just changing weapons constantly. I, myself, like to play in first person when I am in a firefight, it allows me to get more immersed, and I feel much easier when doing so, as I'm used to Counter Strike etc. HOWEVER, when I am in the woods running from 1 town to another, I like to see my character move, i like to see how he crawls and/or sneaks. I like to see the way they hold the rifle and other stuff that you just wouldn't get during first person view. Not all the people use 3rd person as an advantage only. The game just feels too clunky and unfinished when playing in first person all the time due to all of those delays during animations. - "Server locking your character". I always hated this idea entirely. At first glance, it might forever fix the issue with server hoppers, but then you will always be forced to play on only 1 server... All the time... Until you die. Why does it suck? First - players limit. With a limit in 40 players I can easily see how fast it can fill up. And I don't want to spend ages in the servers list waiting until the server I play on has a free place to join. It will suck even more if server just stops functioning and you couldn't recconect back to it. When I played the mod, "Private hives" always annoyed the hell out of me, because a lot of times I just couldn't find the server I play on because it wasn't online 24/7.

Why not also log out as soon as you see or hear a zombie? I mean, there's no system that prevents it, so why not? Oh also, relog everytime you get a loot. Nothing stops you from it, so why bother looting the whole building?

FOV Slider. Upper picture is the highest FOV, bottom picture is the lowest FOV.

If there is an explanation to this.... Although I'm not sure if one can exist... Just... What?

First post on these forums - hooray! Let me first introduce myself - real name's Lev, born in Russia. My username mainly consists of my nickname (Leo) and real lastname (Ivanov) mashed together. Heard about DayZ long time ago, when it was still in it's "early" stages. My friend told me about it, as he was a great fan of both Arma 2 and Zombie games. Being a cheap skate (but a very great zombie fan) I started watching Chkilroy youtube's channel where he posted DayZ footage. About year and a half I've purchased Arma 2 Combined Operations on steam and tried DayZ for myself. That's how I got dedicated to it. I am also an active member of Project Zomboid community and even took the honor to translate it to Russian for my homelanders. So, hello! Let's finally get to the point of this discussion. WARNING : POTENTIALLY BIG WALL OF TEXT! A couple of months earlier I've watched Dean Hall doing a very interesting devblog. The topic in it went to the point where he was talking about potentially toning down the KoS mentality by adding damage to items in victim's clothes, that the person shot at. Since then I closely followed DayZ's progress and wanted to see if KoS mentality was really going to be any less than it ended up being in the mod.... Now, december came - release got out, and... There isn't any less KoS. On the coastline, maybe - but not as high to even mention that small gap. What did Dean do wrong? Did he even do anything wrong? Well, there are a couple of things that is worth noting : 1: People aren't shooting on sight ONLY for the loot. It has always been a "reward" for shooting people - you get more stuff because you shot someone, how cool is that? 2: Dean underestimated the players that are buying DayZ Standalone - they are either coming from the mod, or buying into something new. The new buyers will likely be too distracted figuring the game out and trying not to die - they are most likely not going to KoS. The problem, however, lays within the mod players themselves. I'll explain. So far I've figured about FOUR reasons why people shoot each other on sight. - Loot. Yeah, even though I've said earlier that people aren't only shooting for loot, there are a certain percentage that see the temptation of killing stranger/your partner who is geared up pretty good and is shouting "Friendly" at you. You can just kill him and take all the stuff - and you'd never even have to waste countless hours looking for it! So, the KoS for "looters" has been lowered down a lot - Good job at achieving it, Dean! Item damage did it's job, and now people have to think twice, before shooting someone in the back, and where to land the shot so their loot doesn't get destroyed. - Paranoia. Paranoia has been a good topic for writers that do the post-apocalyptic novels involving interactions between the human nature. In DayZ, players feel paranoia because of how much time they spent finding all the stuff they currently have. They don't want to get shot at all just because they trusted a random "Friendly!" guy who ended up just going for his gear anyway. No matter - melee, empty pistol, raised hands, restrained or barehanded - You'd better kill him off first than have him by your side looking for opportunity to kill you at any moment. People that put so much time into their character don't care about the dead guy's loot - they are there to protect their own asses, if it means killing off potentially dangerous player - they go for it. Paranoid people usually keep to the "you kill first, or you get killed" policy. Edit 1 : There is an amazing topic that explains in detail why people KoS because of paranoia. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/158046-sa-why-we-kill-on-sight-kos-super-long-post-no-tldr-section/ As a short summary : People kill other people because it's safer than trying to talk/hide/team up with him. It also has some good suggestions about how to make it more riskier to KoS and how much more benefit you get if you talk/team up with the person instead. - For fun! People play games to relieve stress and boredom, it also involves having fun. DayZ surely relieves a lot of boredom, it has the aspects that keep you interested in playing it. You run around to find a weapon, you loot nearby houses for food to survive, it's kind of really catchy and might pull you in for more than several hours. So, until you get pretty much everything - you are having fun by looting houses and going town to town for supplies. What happens when you reach a point where there is nothing else to look for - You've got food, you've got water, you've got weapon, lots of ammo, super protective gear - Yeah, you decide to relieve boredom by hunting and killing other players. You don't care if they have loot or not - you just want to squeeze maximum fun juice out of the game for it to keep you entertained. Edit 1 : What I meant by "you want to squeeze maximum fun juice out of the game" is : There is nothing else to do once you are loaded up with gear, or have found most of it before getting killed. Always "looking for stuff" gets boring. People turn up to kill people on sight because you can't do anything else in this game. - Revenge/Getting really pissed off. You've spent about 4 real days collecting loot and taking careful steps around zombies, you've been pretty much having a lot of blast from being overly cautious and staying out of the "go for X place to find all the good loot!!!1" league. You made your own game by gathering a lot of supplies from less populated areas. Suddenly, you see another person that is geared up. You decide to say "Friendly!" and maybe exchange some supplies with him. Instead of friendly "wave" you get a raised gun and about dozen bullets put in your body. The fucker didn't even hesitate! That's it! No more friendly behaviour - any person I see will be shot or hit on sight. They'll see how it fucking feels! Revenge/Anger is basically the point where you "Twist" and stop caring about human interaction anymore. You mark any player a "threat" and kill them when you see them. Doesn't matter if it's a half-naked human holding a banana up in his right hand - you kill them, because you want them to suffer just as much as you suffered when you got killed by that "douchebag". Edit 1: "Getting really pissed off" may include people who are frustrated with the way other people are playing. For example : You are trying to play bandit that doesn't KoS, and instead of complying and letting you cuff them (or trying to run away/fight) people simply log off. So, since people log off as soon as they see you, you might aswell just shoot them on sight now. DayZ community. I know that there are better and more greater minds than me right there, so instead of giving half-assed suggestions that I made up, i'd rather have you lending me a hand with this. WE NEED TO KEEP KoS MENTALITY TO MINIMUM! How do we do that? For EACH point that I've described above we need to do something that counters it. For example : To counter "For fun!" KoS type, there just have to be more things that keep player entertained throughout the game. Building houses, listening for your own in-game mp3 player - anything goes. I can't bring this suggestion without your, DayZ community's help. If we want to eleminate KoS mentality, we need to think through about how to do this. I gave 4 reasons why people Kill on Sight. 1 person can do 1 good suggestion to counter one of it, and another can do the same to another one. Combined, we might end up building 1 BIG suggestion that will keep KoS as minimum as possible, or even completely remove it. Dean Hall already adressed one of these reasons, let's think about how to take care of the rest. Any Russian replies are also welcome, if DayZ modders allow it. I'll try my damnest to translate the best suggestions that comes from Russian players. DayZ SHOULDN'T BE ALL ABOUT PvP!

I think I've understood what you were trying to say the first time you replied to this topic. No need to repeat the same sentense in different wording more than once. You think KoS is inevitable - alright, sure. Doesn't mean we can't make less of it. I already renamed the topic to "KoS and how to keep it to minimum", and deleted the "/remove it completely" part. Your welcome. Also, Merry Christmas (Us, Russians, don't celebrate it. We do "New Year Eve" instead). On the other news though - I just bought Standalone. So anyone thinking that I'm whining without even trying the game - you can't complaint on the second part now :)

Trying to bring the thing that was once there is not called destroying, it's called 'rebuilding'. You can't destroy something already destroyed.

It is VERY hard to find the "Western" Weaponry in Russia. Also, we, unlike americans, aren't as crazy about the handguns (a.k.a pistols). http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9F%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8 That's about all the pistols for Russia, unlike the CRAZY amount of them from U.S . And mostly, people would be having a "Traumatic" weapons for self defense, instead of lethal ones that the military has. I know that Chernarus is a fictional town, and isn't meant to represent Russian city, but if we were to talk about any kind of realism, M4 should be a "One of a kind" to find.

Honestly, both are pretty much the dead sentence if we were talking about the real apocalypse. Only the bravest would yell "Don't shoot I'm friendly!"

People get turned off by games like Nether and WarZ because they are "Buggy" and "People can't even talk to each other without getting instantly shot at", yet the very same people praise DayZ for the latter. There is a perfect reason of why DayZ attracts me to it - it's the "Survival" aspect, and the one of a kind game that "Simulates" what would actually happend in real zombie apocalypse. I am old enough to know that in any sort of apocalypse, once you find a gun loaded with bullets, your thoughts will never be anywhere near "How fast can this gun kill a person?!" I played vanilla DayZ because of how it made me feel scared, and the way I interacted with my friend (Once he broke the leg and I had to run 2 towns for a single morphine shot while he was waiting at abandoned gas station). In any sort of apocalypse, those who shoot others on sight are considered maniacs that are too far gone into their mental sickness. Those kind of people will exist, but they are unable to think rationally and will most likely end up being dead on the first year of whatever disaster happens and holds for that long. DayZ tries to simulate the apocalypse, but with such big amount of Deathmatch players, it fails to do so and instead simulates what it's like being on an island full of psychopatic maniacs that want to kill you at any moment. It's not because "I just don't like it, make it go away", it's because it breaks the core element of human interaction in DayZ. You might aswell remove VOIP and handcuffs from the game, people will kill you anyway, why bother.

Thanks for deliberately pointing out where I was caught dead wrong. Oh wait, you didn't! Does that mean I can tell you that you are dead wrong without giving any sort of explanation either? Okay. So you made assumption and generalization, and when caught dead wrong you get pissed off and start telling people to go fuck themselves. Well, I'm done discussing anything with you. How did that feel? Next time you throw something as ridicoulus as your reply, make sure you back it up with something, otherwise I won't even bother replying to you.

"End of fucking discussion.", yes, it isn't targeted at people like you anyway. So stay the hell off from it, please.

Sure, because I have a point and give fair insight on the problem, I am automatically a bag full of stupid. I didn't say that you were one of the people that flooded DayZ with it's mindless Kill on Sight. I said people LIKE YOU (As in - people who like being a "Bandit") flooded it. I never said vanilla DayZ haven't had "KoS bandits". I just said that they were the minority, mostly camping at big cities to kill newbies. Now those type of players are literally every person you see. Sorry, but I want that shit to stay at it's minimum. I won't be surprised if you were also one of the people that complained about DayZ taking too long to release.

Would've been a great idea if people that are 18+ were going for mature, survival play, and those under 18 were going for KoS... It just doesn't work like that, unfortunately. I've met (Atleast in mod, as I don't own DayZ yet) countless people that are older than 18 that like killing on sight, and likewise - people younger than 18 that hate killing people for fun and want an immersion over the mindless killing.

I like some of the points you make, and some of them just makes me ill. I can't understand why people immediately imply that anyone who dislikes "KoS" wants DayZ to be about "holding hands and dancing around the camp fire with flowers and bunnies. " No, for god's sake, I pointed it out countless times : I'm okay when people Kill on Sight because they are afraid for their stuff/life! That's probably what is going to happend in the real apocalypse when there are no more rules to obey, and nobody enforces them upon you. However, just as I like some of the KoS, I also dislike it's other type - the "because I can" or "For fun" type. THAT KoS should be got rid of. Also, your point about KoS not hurting immersion would've been flawless.... If DayZ was about KoS. If their early access trailer included stuff like "This is DayZ, this is your story. MMO Competitive Survival Shooter", I would've just raised my hands defendeless, and called it quits trying to argue. but the fact - it's not. It isn't aiming to be a game where people shoot other players as soon as they see them. The fact that Dean Hall implemented item damage per shot proves that he wants the player interaction to be something more than just "Die bitch!". Although those games were made as sort of clones of DayZ, if I wanted to play a game where people shoot each other in order to have fun in post apocalyptic settings, I'd just go play Nether or Infestation : Survivor stories.

People like you made this game "wrong" for me. If you are serious about whatever you just wrote, I have Left4Dead2. It's nothing but a linear zombie shooting game with friends. It's fun, but once you finish all the campaigns, it just becomes boring. But hey! L4D2 is still a good co-op zombie shooter game, and people didn't completely change the way it's played. DayZ seemed like fun and interesting back in it's days. Once it became interesting, people like you flooded it and made it into MMO Deathmatch with perma death. It would've been cool if I wanted a zombie game with people that deathmatch each other... But I don't want that. So excuse me if I wanted to have DayZ being that "ultimate zombie apocalypse simulation" that I always wanted to experience. That's right, experience. That's what you people are massively killing off with your KoS4F attitude (Kill on Sight for Fun, for dummies).

"Stop being retarded. If you don't want to play Monopoly the way it was designed to be played, learn how to play it our way. I am tired of countless threads made because people are pissed that everyone are playing it the way we want". Seeing the amount of likes in this post makes me shiver how much people actually like to play DayZ as a "Competitive Open World Shooter with zombies". We are NOT retarded if we want the game to have as less KoS as humanly possible. I see where you are coming from, and your attitude just makes me sick. Whenever Dean actually listens and implements a lot of things that counter KoS to the point it's at bare minimum, I'll make sure I create a topic that says this : " Stop being retarded. Stop hiding in the bushes on the top of the hill with that camo clothing of yours. Stop sneaking around the town without taking 30 seconds to think how dumb you look. It's a survival game, people aren't meant to KoS everyone for fun, so start playing it like one. "

Because DayZ was not build with intention of just doing that. Why do you think there are handcuffs in the game, item damage, Direct Voice chat implemented? It's there for people to interact with each other and push from there if they want to kill each other or band together. ONCE AGAIN - For all the people here, I've posted FOUR(!) reasons of KoS, and I DIDN'T say that all of them are bad. If person shoots another because of paranoia, there is nothing wrong, the game is survival horror. In the old Arma 2 days, when the mod just came out, DayZ was amazing. People talked to each other, sometimes they fought each other (My friend has seen a sea of dead player bodies, took a rifle from one of them and killed the sniper that was shooting everyone), the game looked great until it became stupidly over-popular and people from all sorts of games went in it. It was so popular that even now some are still trying to copy it to grab a quick buck. WarZ, Nether - only a couple of games that would've never seen light if DayZ wasn't there. And guess what kind of activity is ALSO popular there? That's right - KoS. Those games were built to have fun, with having KoS in mind as an activity to have "Fun". Basically, beside collecting supplies, you can't do anything else there but KoS. DayZ does not deserve to have it inhabitated by people that shoot each other "for fun". It isn't a "Competitive MMO open world Shooter with zombies". I got interested in this game because it tries to answer a question : "For how long would you survive if zombie apocalypse happens?", "What would humans turn into during apocalypse?". It isn't supposed to answer this one : "How much powerful weapon you can find and how much people you can kill before you inevitably get killed by another player?"

Did I forget to mention that I haven't bought DayZ yet and only watched countless streams on twitch? (Just like, you know, Dean Hall actually suggested.). I am not "yet another noob that gets killed". Hell, did you even read the introduction of my post? I am guessing you are one of those people who sees the title and instantly goes to blame me for it, instead of taking the time to read through. To the others : I know that KoS is what makes DayZ right now. But, as I stated in my post, there is a bad and good side of it. And ALL I'M TRYING TO ACHIEVE is to minimize the BAD side of the KoS. Killing someone because you are Paranoid is NOT BAD! Killing someone because you are enraged/pissed off is sort of acceptable! HOWEVER, Killing someone FOR FUN - isn't okay, Killing people at the coast that just spawned isn't okay, especially when YOU just spawned. You are missing the point of this thread completely, I am not whining about KoS, I am trying to minimize it to the point that people will stop senselessly killing each other because "They can". It's like playing "Monopoly" with a bunch of people. But instead of doing it by the rules, every opponent smacks the board around and throw cards at each other. It's fine when 1 person does it - you can make him stop and teach him to play by the rules, but when majority plays like this and everyone else accepts it - it's just sad.

I'm sorry >_>' After posting this threat, it was almost instantly sucked to the second page of the forum by the new replies to other, hot topics. I didn't know if it was worth bumping potentially old thread just to have a moderator show up, saying "This thread is old, I'll just lock it" and having to create a separate one, so I skipped that stage. Again, SORRY if KoS discussions are too popular, atleast I haven't seen any on the first page that had a "hot" toolbar beside it. I just want to help the game develop in the right direction, and have community help me achieve it.

I've put it in the "For Fun" section, just afraid that I haven't made it obvious enough. When you are sick of just looking for stuff or have your backpack FILLED with food, weapons and ammo, there is just nothing else to do. DayZ has "looking for stuff to not get killed" as a thing to do. But once you don't want/have to do that anymore, there is nothing else. So you kill people, for fun. Sorry if it wasn't clear in my message, I'll edit it now.

So you kill "For fun". I see it now.

Instead of trying to argue, I'll just ask - out of all 4 reasons I posted above, what reason is YOURS to KoS? I never stated that, for example, "Paranoia" type of KoS is bad. It increases the tension, tension is good in survival horror games.