-j3bbah

If barracks are the top end static spawns why not just keep them at NWAF? You can still have decent weapon spawns across the map like how Stary used to be for example, but people will still be drawn to NWAF for the really good stuff and that makes it a good hotspot for PvP. Having so many top-end spawns scattered across the map will mean on a 50 man server you can probably access the best loot (-heli crashes) without meeting anyone else, I've yet to meet anyone at NWAF while Ive been playing the SA, probably because they're all at the coast accessing the same loot 2 minutes after spawn...

Best post!

Hangar & air tower =/= barracks Again, Im not complaining about the state of things right now Im arguing against those who think the map and loot is currently balanced and should stay how it is.

Never once did I say PvP or PK was a problem, they're paramount to this being a worthwhile game. What I'm saying is you shouldn't be allowed to bypass every other core aspect of the game and still have access to end game gear to PvP with. In the same way it takes 35285 fucking years of grinding before a noob in Darkfall or EVE can compete. You can't just go into Darkfall and be like, I want to PK, so give me dragon armour and max skills cos I don't wanna grind. It's part of the core of the game, the same way survival and progression is (supposed to be) in DayZ Except that it IS a survival orientated game in the same way it is also a PvP orientated game. You shouldnt be choosing whether or not you want to play survival while still accessing the end game, in the same way non-PvPers shouldnt be choosing whether or not they want to get shot in the face while accessing their end game. It's all intertwined and that's how it should be. = Time & effort = consequence If you're going all the way to the airfield to get your gear the last thing you want is to get shot and spawn back at the coast. If you're spawning at Balota and getting end game gear at Balota, you just aren't gonna give a fuck = deathmatch.

Which is exactly as it was at the NWAF in the mod, except you actually had to make some semblance of an effort to get there, and because of that you would almost always go prepared. Now you don't need to make any effort because there's no consequence.

Some military loot is fine (though I would rather it was just basic low tier weapons), but barracks are the high end loot, they were never at Balota in the mod, that is the issue people have. Why go to the airfield if all the potential gear you need is right at the coast and you can loot up then camp and kill fresh spawns, all in view of the coast.

But allowing you to get all the gear you need at the coast 2 minutes after spawning makes the idea of consequence redundant.

You're missing the point. You say you dont play the game for survival, but it IS intended to be a survival game whether you like it or not, that is the decision of the devs not yours. So in one sentence you've essentially disarmed your own argument and acknowledged that you are playing with the wrong mentality, thus backing my argument.

Im pretty sure no one's arguing this. But while he may have maintained that it's a PvP game, he's also maintained that it is a SURVIVAL game. You can't combine the fundamentals of a survival game with a quick paced no consequence deathmatch game, they're not compatible. So in order to keep with the basics of the original vision the deathmatchers need to understand that they are playing the game completely the wrong way, and they should not complain when their ability to continue their completely misguided playstyle is taken away from them. Either that, or they should remove the survival aspect, and destroy the original vision. Whatever. zzzz.

I just noticed this statement:

Ironically Im probably less of a carebear than you are, seems to me you're the one whining for easy loot and easy PvP with no risks and no consequences.

The fact is there are already people saying they want it to stay the way it is, so naturally people are going to argue with that. There's no indication that it isn't going to be changed back, but then there's no indication that it is going to be changed back, so people will argue. I'm not arguing that they should change it back right now, Im just arguing with the people who think it's fine how it is. That is a perfectly valid argument at this stage. Keep raging though mate The thing is though DayZ was never intended to be the deathmatch game you seem to want it to be, but hey maybe if you complain long enough they will change their minds and accommodate just for deathmatchers and completely ruin the game :D

I like how anyone who wants something more to PvP than a boring aimless deathmatch at Balota is labelled a carebear and a pussy.

Those players who do want to head up north can do with the weapons to defend themselves from the deathmatch types, it is an even playing ground when everyone can access it. You won't stop the new spawn killers by removing loot, you will only stop the other players from having similar powered weapons in the same areas. So you want everyone to play your way and have the battle zone in an area that you like ? It's no good to make one area the military zone, it just turns it into a meat grinder, at least now it's kind of spread out from one end of the map to the other, either place you can get good weapons, so people spread out, you don't just have three quarters of the server rushing to the one place. It would actually make the pVp worse I think. Your post is completely broken, nice one. To your actual points, you seem to have no grasp of the concept of either progression or risk vs reward. Right now, you spawn in at Balota, spend 30 seconds getting to the Barracks, you pick up an M4, you kill other guys with M4's, you die to a guy with an M4, you rinse and you repeat. That is not DayZ, that is a CoD deathmatch and the fact that so many people don't seem to be comprehending that makes me worry about the future of this game. Why do they need to head north, when everything they need is at the coast? So the guy that just spawned in 5 minutes ago should have access to the same gear as a guy who spent 2 hours at the airfield - to level the playing field. Nothing will entirely stop spawn killing, and that's okay, but the more reason there is to leave the coast, the more spawn killing will decrease. "So the guy that just spawned in 5 minutes ago should have access to the same gear as a guy who spent 2 hours at the airfield..." No, I want risk vs reward and I want progression, this game was never supposed to be a deathmatch so it needs these things. Meat grinder aka big risk for the big rewards. In the mod NWAF required you to be at the top of your game, watching for snipers, being completely paranoid, and being prepared. You could die in a second and lose everything, and start out at the coast with nothing. Or you could win, and reap the best rewards. Stretching out end-game gear across the map on a 50 man server will mean you can just switch between Barracks until you find one that isn't locked down, walk in, get some gear and walk out again. There have been many times when Ive gone to NWAF and it has been deserted, that is inevitable on 50 man servers, but if you stretch the barracks across to 3 or 4 different areas you will never find PvP at them. Sure I think you should be able to find good things at different locations, but not necessarily weapons. Because then you're looking at stretching the best weapons to 4 different places, stretching the best vehicles to multiple different places, etc, and you will never find PvP anywhere because everyone is checking a different location.

Balota was better on the mod. If you spawned close to it it felt like a treat and you would probably check out the hangers and find a sub machine gun or an AK, then you would either go be a dick or you would progress further into the map. There is really no logic to giving Balota military spawns, it destroys the sense of high risk high reward play that comes with the NWAF, the only people who benefit from this are the deathmatchers who are playing the game the wrong way anyway. It's really simple: The coast should give you access to low-mid weapons - winchesters, makarovs etc Middle map (Stary etc) should give you access to mid-high weapons - good pistols, some automatic weapons etc And the NWAF should be the location for the skilled and organized players to fight over the best gear - All automatic weapons, nightvision, heavy weapons, silenced weapons, military sniper rifles etc. Balota having military weapons is fine for the time being during development for weapon testing etc but on the full build the end game weapons should be removed from Balota and Vybor and everywhere else and kept solely to the NWAF, to keep it as a hotspot for raids and the best high end PvP.

Hope this is a shitty joke.

I acknowledge your third point, you didn't say it was the root cause, though you appeared to be implying that it was a "fix" of sorts. However your first and second points are out right wrong. But no need to continue this as neither of us will change our minds.

First of all, you appear to be comparing combat logging to KOS'ing, when they cannot be compared: This is common sense. While both might be game breaking for some, combat logging is an exploit, while KOSing is a valid playstyle. Do yourself a favour and acknowledge that. You then go onto say that KOS is the root cause of combat logging: Which it isn't. The root cause of combat logging is the attitude of players who will abuse unintended mechanics to win, who will combat log in any scenario in which they feel threatened. If you shoot them first, and you're good, the higher the chances are you can take them out before they have time to disappear. If you approach them first and try to open dialogue, they will either kill you while they have the advantage (but hey, you can always combat log too! It's a sandbox, right? lol) or they will panic and exit before you have any chance to open proper conversation. Their mentality won't change. Even if reducing KOS might make some people less inclined to combat log, the root cause is still there. That's why a hardcoded prevention is the only thing that's needed. For example making your character stay ingame for x seconds after you exit, this means you have to use your brain and find a safe spot to log out, and if you don't, then someone has time to destroy you before you can bail like a baby. Your further posts were simply you "regurgitating" that same argument, regardless of it being disarmed numerous times.

Exploiting a broken mechanic is not the same as having your own playstyle. Coast camping is lame, but it's a valid play style. Combat logging is not a playstyle, it's simply exploiting what is obviously an unintended mechanic. They cannot be compared. so your argument really doesn't hold here. Besides, someone can easily log off against you when you try to open dialogue with them, which is what OP is saying, so your other argument isn't really valid here either. EDIT: Ive didn't realize there were 4 pages of people shooting your argument down before I replied, so I've kind of wasted my time. But i'd like to reiterate what others have been saying and repeat that your argument is completely invalid. On another note, I have no idea why people combat log to be fair, I'm not even good at the game and I've found dozens of M4's, tons of food, drink, everything I need without any issues. If I die I can just respawn and do it all over again no problem. It's far more understandable (albeit still wrong) if someone is logging off in combat to preserve a silenced M4 or a DMR or nightvision etc.

I've only just started playing the alpha and hadn't played the mod properly since summer 2012, so I cant speak with full understanding at this point, however one of the first things I noticed yesterday was the changes to Balota etc. It's unclear to me why such a high end loot spawn is located within sight of fresh spawns and why this was ever changed. I thought the mod had it nailed. The majority of the coastline had low end weapons and gear, shotguns, pistols etc. Balota and NEAF had the mid end weapons like the AK's, and sometimes a lucky spawn like an M14, but there was always the sense of progression associated with the real loot being at the far side of the map. Wherever you spawned on the coast, the NWAF was always the end game and it always took time and effort to get there and get the good stuff. Now, Im wondering why it's necessary to do anything more than camp Balota and shoot fresh spawns. It's great for a deathmatch environment but that isn't what this game should be. Hope the devs change their minds on this.

I agree with the possibility to surrender and it would be nice if you could make your inventory open to other players like with bags, so that you could surrender then display your inventory, allowing them to check you for items, take what they want, and not have to kill you in the process. It doesnt stop them butchering you afterwards, but the possibility to do so imo could only be a positive addition to the general experience. I also had an idea of an item like cable ties or some other method of subduement, so that when you surrender, your aggressor could keep you immobile for a brief period - maybe a minute or so - essentially a voluntary crowd control method, so that your aggressor doesnt have to worry about you getting up and backstabbing the hell out of him while he's leaving the area or rooting through your bags. Obviously he's a bad player if he falls for that, but it's fairly unrealistic that you don't at least have some kind of power over someone who has surrendered to you. This should only be for when you voluntarily surrender, and it must expire quickly. I despise forced crowd control.

Nope.

The main issues are: -It is so easy to kill and so easy to die: If you see a guy you'll probably think one of these three things depending on your playstyle: 1"one or two headshots and his stuff is all mine." 2"If I dont shoot him while I have the advantage he me the instant my back is turned" 3"maybe we can team up" Almost all of the time at least one of the players is considering attacking the other, either just simply to kill, or to kill to prevent being killed. The chances of both players thinking the third option are minimal, which is reason to justify always choosing the second option whenever you encounter someone, resulting in a permanent cycle of murder, and making impromptu alliances pretty much not an option. I listed this as an issue, however dont misinterpret what Im saying - I do not want bigger health bars or lower damage weapons. I love how easy it is to die and kill. I was simply saying this may contribute to the issue at hand. -Zombies are too little of a direct threat: The fact that you can fire a Lee Enfield in the middle of Cherno to take down an enemy and still relatively easily escape or kill the horde that follows pretty much signals to me that zombies are not enough of a factor as they currently are. In my opinion zombies should be considered something to fear, just like bandits. But right now theyre just a slight nuisance. I did note the 1.7.1 changes and hopefully this will change something, but right now there is absolutely no reason to team up with other players in order to PvE. However, going back to my first point, even if you did have to team up in order to PvE, there's nothing to stop your teammate from shooting you dead the moment you drop your guard. -There is no incentive not to kill everyone you see The fact that everyone shows up as a survivor to each other and there's no punishment or incentive not to murder, this means that pretty much everyone is going to murder without any self restraint. Humanity could use some sort of purpose to make putting yourself at risk in order to help other players be potentially worthwhile in some way other than giving the player a greater sense of integrity. All I can suggest is teaming up with someone you trust before you start the game. Either play with a current community, or seize upon any potential friendship with anyone you meet ingame who doesnt shoot you in your face.