27 others

Please, anyone tell me that the statement "the devs wouldn't change [mouse acceleration] because it would be some form of cheat if they did [...]" is NOT true... ( http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161696-negative-mouse-acceleration/?hl=%2Bmouse+%2Bacceleration ) Today, i tried playing on a server which only has first person mode allowed. I promised myself more fairness (due to nobody being able to peek around corners), and also more immersion into the post-apocalyptic gameworld. After 1 minute in the game I had to find out, that the immersion decreased significantly. Due to the clunky, counterintuitive and downright unrealistic mouse-to-ingame-movement-translation it was impossible for me to scavenge a house for loot without cringing everytime i wanted to look inside a room next to me, or when i wanted to look behind me. Before you start insulting me for saying negative things about the game or want to remind me that this is an alpha, hear me out. Im not bashing anyone here, i spent a lot of valuable hours in this game, i love the atmosphere, i appreciate the work Dean`s team is putting into this game. I also see more of a problem in the Arma Engine than in the work of the developers. If this issue will be fixed by anone, i will be the first to kiss that persons feet. But this is an important issue for me, so i have to bring it up. When i play Dayz in first person perspective i feel like I`m steering this robot: Its a great robot, but it does not move like any human would. In a post-apocalyptic environment with many ruthless people posing a threat, you have to be very perceptive. you have to know whats around you, and you have to be careful. you have to move your neck way more frequently than you are used to, scanning for possible threats with your eyes. like you were taught in driving school. In Dayz, you are given the numpad keys to scan your surroundings. Pressing them does not feel nearly as intuitive as it could feel. The arma engine wouldn`t even need those keys if it had decent, realistic mouse responsiveness. Imagine you were running across a field and you hear something behind you. In a real life situation, you would instinctively widen your eyes, turn your neck and torso quite a bit around in a swift movement, still running, and if you saw a threat, you would swing your arms after, and draw your weapon. If you were a perceptive person who is on edge anyway, i think this should not take more than 2-3 seconds. We are not talking about rocket (hehe) science here, just about seeing whats behind you and grabbing your weapon. In Dayz, this simple task is treated like rocket science. To undertake the first step and look behind you, you have to press the numpad keys 1 or 3, using your right hand. Now you see a player with a gun behind you. And you want to shoot him. But you dont have your weapon pointed in roughly that direction, because you just used your right hand to touch the numpad. And even if you awkwardly kept half of your right hand on the mouse, you wouldnt be happier, since the numpad keys only occupy your neck movement and your crosshair dissappears. Your arms are completely unresponsive and limp. So you release the numpad key, which makes your head face forward again, and then you try to face behind yourself with a quick sweeping movement all the way across your 30cm wide mousepad, from left to right. And it does almost nothing. Only after 2 more sweeps and way more lost time (or if you GEENTLY move the mouse, which is hard to do when you are in a situation that demands a quick response) your weapon finally faces the opponent. And now your crosshair is wobbling all over the place WHICH SHOULD BE ENOUGH to simulate the adrenaline rush. And you suddenly start running towards the enemy because you kept pressing "W" and you didnt want to stay still. But you also didnt want to start running backwards because you run backwards very slowly in this game, and there is also that split second between the animation where your character just stays still. Now, while in reality the time spent turning around would maybe have cost you one bullet in the chest, in the Arma engine it cost you 4. You would have been dead after releasing the numpad key. In the following experiment, i compared the mouse responsiveness from Dayz to another ego shooter on the market. I did that by comparing the amount of rotation achieved by one swift, quick movement across all of the width of my mousepad. Which should equal one swift, quick player movement, right? Take a look at the results. Some guys may tell me that Arma`s is way more realistic than games like CoD or the one in the video. And you are right. The Ballistics are way more realistic. If you take a look at the mouse movement, even CoD is more realistic. If you move your mouse determined in the usual ego shooters, your character makes a determined motion. In the Arma Engine, you are a Lego man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TozQ4b0qz6c In real life, you can rotate around your own axis in a pretty short time. maybe not quite as fast as in most ego shooters, but DEFINATELY way faster than in the Arma Engine. Even with a backpack and a heavy gun equipped, you will be able to aim behind yourself in a pretty short period of time and in one short, swift movement. Holding a gun definately affects your mobility, but not THAT MUCH. You should also consider that i DID NOT EVEN CARRY A GUN in the experiment in Dayz. So, here are my suggestions: One sweep across the mousepad = 180° rotation numpad keys (looking in different directions) bindable to other keys. My left hand is on WASD, my right one is one the mouse, its just akward if you quickly want to look behind yourself. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ UPDATED: the follwing video shows how this complicated movement could be translatable to the mouse movement of Dayz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LotFp3WLZN0

Max Payne 3 is not a realistic game. It`s mouse- and bodymovement, however, TOTALLY are. And that was the only thing i focused on. pixel-accuracy and gun-physics-wise, you are correct. Arma has more realistic gun physics, as well as pixel accuracy. Notice how when you sprint in Arma 2, your crosshair starts wobbling all over the place? This should also be implemented when a quick mouse motion is taking place, instead of just punishing fast mouse movements with barely no response. I want my mouse to control the head of the player primarily, and the weapon secondarily.

yeah if somebody would just have seen me through the window he would have called a psychiatrist haha

Some very good and interesting points in that post, Mutonizer. I know the devs of Arma tried to do it more realistic. But it seems they did not have the capacities to fulfill that dream of realism, which led to a less responsive (as in registering the actions of the player), not really more realistic, but restricting, and less fun movement system.with the mouse, you basically just move your chest. you are not able to move your torso and your head at the same time. Max Payne 3 had the most realistic shooting physics i have ever experienced. They captured hundreds of animations for simulating arm movement. Yes, bullet time and jumping is unrealistic, but we are talking about the general shooting mechanics. Watch from 0.58 onwards "maintaining full responsiveness, without sacrificing realistic character movement" The shooting in Max Payne 3 is fun, realistic, fluid, and not CoD-esque. I just loaded my backpack with 40 pounds of dumb bell weights, and tried to turn around . 50-60 pounds is wayy to overexaggerated. The biggest backpack in the game has 35 slots. Most things you pack are cans of sardines, bandages, clothing, vitamin bottles and such stuff. You can do the math. I strapped it tight and tried to turn around quickly. I did not fall on my ass. The backpack is heavy, but was not even close to throwing me off balance. In a right turn, you put all your weight on the right leg and swing the other one around with a tiny little jump. You make a tight "v" with your right arm, gripping the handle, then your loose left arm swings after and steadies the aim after the spin is completed. If you do this in a tight rotation movement, you sure as hell are way faster than in DayZ. The inertia forces are not applied that much, since from beginning of the rotation movement, until the point you see the threat, there is no necessity to "keep the M4 at a straight aim". ONLY when the turn is almost finished, you raise the gun. And you know when that turn has to be finished way before this moment, because your neck movement is preceding your arm movement. (If you have trouble imagining this, look at the pictures in the end of my first post in this thread :) ) I felt some inertia forces DO apply, the backpack HAS an effect. Tho, this effect is easily liquidated by the right leg which you stomp on the ground. Yes, you are right. I was only referring to footwork there.

If a bit of body control is present and if the bag does not dangle as loosely as a school bag, this is definately not the case.Also, most guns are not as heavy as many people think. A fully loaded stock M4 weighs 3.4 kilograms. If you have weights at home, try turning around with 3.4 kilograms in your hand. The rotation speed is barely not affected. Especially if you hold a gun like it should be held (with strained muscles and a rather safe grip). The heavy weight of the bag also does not influence the neck movement speed. No weight is resting on the top of your head, except maybe a light helmet or bandana. You should be able to look around faster than aim, but limiting your view on the direction of your arms instead of your face does not make sense. Why are humans so underestimated? We have been walking and running around our whole lives, using our feet, turning around is not "difficult footwork". And seeing that even without a bag and a gun, these controls are so clunky, i think there will have to be applied quite a bit of tweaking before full release.

I tried to explain what exact problem i see with the current mouse movement and tried to make a comprehensible example together with a suggestion, which i added to the end of the first post in this thread.

My mouse accelerates too slow. I go across my whole mousepad and only rotate 30 degrees. By accelerating it i should be faster and thus move more degrees. Also, THE BUTTON DOES NOT WORK. Deadzone changes dont do shit. Like i wrote in the video. There should be no Deadzone anway. People can move their torso and their legs.

The alt key is of limited help, because the crosshair does not move with it. And i already changed my mouse settings in the config file. Swinging the mouse to look isnt hard in other games, in Dayz it feels uncontrollably clunky. You can move around while standing still, im not asking for 360° CoD trick shots which you would have understood if you would have read my post. In the Arma engine you don`t get actual human speed. Humans can move their torso. Have you ever seen scenes in police movies where they want to see if a room is clear? They move their guns from left to right in a quick motion. I DO NOT WANT THE MOVEMENT SPEED FROM GAMES LIKE COD, take a look at the end of my post. I know Arma wants to be more realistic. But they exaggerated it to the point where it is even less realistic than most trash games. Both movement speeds are unrealistic. a thing in between would be nice.

hahaha its the fckd up rabbit hopping animation laughed like a lunatic when i saw it first hand

Why make a new thread. you could just post "the game looks good" in a feedback section.

And Jesus welcomed his fellow human beings. And After his glorious resurrection, he armed himself with God`s tools. He paired of with his son, who decided to join him at his ambush at a village called Betlehem. He was standing upright, near an opened window on a second floor with a view on the villages water pump. He leaned in and aimed/zoomed at the head with spacebar up but not with the iron sight vision (goat penis). The shot hit the wall instead on the left in the house. It was a miracle. All his friends gathered around to witness his incredible gift. Now, humanity, do we actually need to be in a weapon sight to shoot? Should not a 3rd person perspective be enough to live a fulfilled life, completely free of sin? Does leaning is the issue? Is it the breaking window? We do not need to be crouch. God has given us the power. Jesus, speaking God into taking his powers from thee for demonstration purposes, fired another shot in 3rd person view to make sure and it was accurate... and it was. And God saw that it was good. Amen!

also:

i cant even identify the lobster as a lobster but i also see faces on the floor of my bathroom there is one babyface and the face of a spy-like guy with a trenchcoat, a wide chin, an underbite, a hat and deep dark circles around the eyes as well as a distinct forehead

the game you describe is like heroin. if you try evolving your character, and you are killed in the middle of almost achieving it, you will feel like shit. if you finally have an evolved character you are happy with, you are gonna have some pretty statifying hours of playing. Then you die and you try to get all those skills up again, but you die and you die again and then you lost your job.

there is already that considerable risk of loosing something. killers could loose the last 2 hours of their life, searching for that m4. I play carefully because i dont want to loose all those hours of gearing up. many others just dont care, because they have no life anyway LOL

So, just to be clear, you want to be able shape your ingame character like in an RPG such as Fallout? You want your character to evolve with increased gametime? You want your character to be able to do things better by repeating actions? I love Fallout, but i do not think that this would be so smart to implement in Dayz. Because there is one factor: You die once, all your progress is in the gutter. Soon you will have to regain all of those "mental" and "muscular" capabilities AGAIN. a painful progress. And it wont even reduce the KoS mentality. You say people will shoot less on sight, because they will evaluate the risks? Guess what, the bandits think of it as a risk to let another person live. THEY ACTUALLY ARE CONVINCED OF THAT. they think if they dont shoot him in the face, but split paths, he`ll come and rape them in the anus. I like the basic idea tho, a little more depth to the character... but you really, really could have compressed all that text. even your f*cking comprehension at the end.... "DayZ needs to support who you are in relation to who you have chosen to be," "the way to start supporting that is to start quantifying the human experience of living in the world DayZ presents into mathematically measurable and applicable systems" ENGLISH PLEASE!

Interesting read. Dayz could profit from a LITTLE BIT of character development. If the effects were too strong tho, i think that would suck. Whats my motivation behind playing dayz after my extremely strong extremely intelligent character got shot in the back after investng 60 hours into his development?

I want cars. They shouldnt be easy to keep tho. Id like to customize them. Everybody who says cars should Not be in the game..... !!wtf! You like running around for hours? Or are you just running faster than me? Is Turbo = double tap W with fists equipped? Thats all.

Haha "inventory tetris" I love you all

oh my god they better fix that in the next patch such a gamebreaker :((

that wasn`t even funny.

NOooooOOOO

I DONT GET IT.

thats just a garden dwarf pyramid