27 others

the devs justified the existance of mouse acceleration by it being "more realistic" -> simulator the thing is mouse acceleration, as it is implemented right now, actually makes it less realistic.

i did another topic on that matter, going very in-depth. my solution does not contain raw 1:1 input, tho. you can check it out http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163485-why-mouse-acceleration-in-first-person-desperately-needs-fixing-2-long-post/ also http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/160187-make-1st-person-less-clunky-remove-mouse-acceleration-deceleration-smoothing/#entry1609143

my mouse has got 3 settings for dpi, that i can access through "+" and "-" buttons on it. I tried it with low, medium and high.

There is a thin line between complaining and neutrally showing up areas where improvement would be profitable. The devs dont take complainers seriously, and your essay will not make them stop complaining.

Hey, if its good enough for Microsoft Pinball, its good enough for everything. I`m an expert.

This is just ridiculous. i just tried turning around over and over again ingame and i noticed a slight improvement. Now i pretty much got it in my hand muscle feeling where the barrier to negative acceleration lies. I thought my turning time decreased, recorded it and.... it was just my imagination. Today i got to know where the maximum possible acceleration for me lies, and i subconsciously suspected it before. Here is a comparison between mine and Karmaterrors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI2WPHaLEMM&feature=youtu.be Around this value, 2.2 seconds is literally where i can not go any faster. My hand movement is gently as f*ck. If i move my hand any slower, the turning time decreases. If i move a little faster, it decreased aswell due to negative acceleration. Just unbelievable, it takes me about 270 percent the time of Karmaterror to turn. I noticed a decrease in frames during the turn, about 10-15 fps. Maybe that is a problem. I dont have an uber PC. Your video looks really really smooth fps-wise, Karmaterror. May i ask, what is your hardware?

im actually surprised. the speed at which you move in arma 2 seems very smooth and realistic. almost twice as fast as the maximum i achieved in dayz. tomorrow im gonna try to find out why your movement differs from mine, and try to prove that i objectively really move my mouse gently and smoothly. got a rough idea on how to do that without filming my hands. now im really gonna go to sleep tho, 10pm here in germany.

wait a second.... "Max sensitivity"?? Maximum ingame mouse sensitivity??? I covered that in my testing. Skip to 0:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWl1fpV8RuM you cant go around in houses with max sensitivity without getting stuck on EVERY doorframe.

Eh. im talking about the Dayz Standalone here. Since they rebuilt their game, they probably changed the mouse movement aswell. If they didnt, you could have a fair point. gonna head to bed now

You misunderstood. I was talking about the head and arm movement -----> speed <--- here. You probably experience the issue, but you accepted it. I do have an issue with injustified prohibition of the speed and body control i could achieve in real life. 1. In real life you can move your head and your arms at different speeds simultaneously. Almost every shooter fails to grasp that very concept, and in DayZ you experience way more problems than you would in real life. 2. im not a retard. moving the mouse smoothly is not rocket science, like what you want it to be. the maximum i achieved was 2.2s/360° in Dayz. I say again, please record ingame footage of yourself doing a 360° turn in a more realistic time. 3. eh if youre talking to him i dont know, but i told you that i SUPPORT the REASON. the implementation is just bad.

Do that. Record the time you require for a turn. I actually wrote 2.2-2.6 seconds, tho. Didn`t quite understand all of that, but go ahead. Im curious to see the results. Sounds good. But i actually get punished for it moving my mouse reasonably normally. When i move it very smoothly it takes double the time it would in reality.

Yes. Yes. the punishment is out of place. Exerpt from first post: Would you limit your speed of head movement to the slower arm movement? And thus create a clunky, unintuitive and restrictive experience, which is not even realistic? (Dayz) Or would you enable the arms to move a little faster than they actually are able to? This also is not realistic, but creates a fluid and intuitive gameplay, that still maintains many of the possibilities from the above mentioned method. (Common Ego Shooters) Ego shooter: 360° in 0.63s -> 570° per second -> moves 42.5% faster than real life Real Life: 500° in 1.25s -> 400° per second Dayz: 360° in 2.57 s -> 140° per second -> moves 65% slower than real life You know, you can move your body fast without looking like a guy dancing on extasy.

I would like you to take a look at how long it takes for you to do a 360° turn ingame. Like, actually stop it via Sony Vegas or a stopwatch or something. You might actually be right and your mouse speed may actually be realistic on your game. If so, i dont know whats the problem and why it doesnt work for me. all i can say is i can move my hands gentle and smoothly, and i did.

Good. Why complain about me not mentioning that part when it was not even directed at me???? I was not going to fully quote every post you guys wrote, because then we would be at thread page 7 by now, with everything having been repeated 2039034 times. No, because i would rather not show myself on the internet. Everything you gotta have to do the experiment yourself is written right there if you want to convince yourself. I even encouraged the people to do this experiment themselves to calculcate averages. No. 1.1-1.3 seconds compared to 2.2-2.6 seconds is HALF as much. HALF. Just used that example to show you that fast motions are possible without falling over I know. I did not compare the 2. I did an experiment to outline the basic thought. And in there, i considered a fully loaded bag, pants and stuff.

I explained to you C O U N T L E S S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! times that i do NOT want gameplay like Cod/Quake/ other stuff. You never acknowledged that, but only read what you wanted me to have written. You are one of the most ignorant persons i have ever met. I can not eat my wanted burger (i dont want a Big Mac) somewhere else, because there is no other game like Dayz out there that has nice mouse movement aswell. Yes i am just going to resume playing when the issue has been fixed. It firstly has to be fixed. Here is a more easy to understand depiction of what my thread is trying to say:

DUUUUH I DO NOT WANT 1:1 INPUT MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are arguments 1) and 3) supposed to go in my direction? A less punishing method does not make it "easy as hell" in this case, but REALISTIC. There is no real reason to get punished that much. because you dont get punished that much in real life while rotating around your own axis (WHICH YOU SEEE IN MY MOTHERF***** FIRST POST!!!!!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I do not want to ADAPT to a system that ISSSSS BROOOOKEEEEEEEN! THE PICTURES I DREW CONFIRM THAT IT IS BROKEN AND UNREALISTIC. LOOK AT THEM. LOOK AT TENNIS PLAYERS.

I, and many others cannot. You are generalizing and downright lying. Read the story above. YES, IT F**KING IS. LOOK AT MY EXPERRRRRIMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTT READ MY FIRST POST. Others seem to have quite a lot of problems with current mouse movement. Take a look around in this thread. And about that link, accusing other people for not having actual arguments..... ooooooh the irony. THATS PRETTY MUCH EXACTLY. WHAT. I. WROTE. IN. MY. FIRST. POST. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR "A Limitation of Mouse Acceleration is not such a bad idea. But the value they have for the upper limit of mouse acceleration at the moment, is unfitting." IDEA = GOOD, smart, praisewrthy REALIZATION = GARBAGE. No need to obfuscate. LIE. You repeat yourself. 1:1 is bad because the animations look weird? They already look weird. And I answered to the upper part already, somewhere in this post IMO breaking mouse movement to appeal to the wannabe realists (who dont have a clue about realism) isnt what dayz is about.

I do not quite belong to this subset of players. And that subset of players has every right to pinpoint flaws in the game they purchased. They also have every right to prefer 1:1 input over the current system, because it is more realistic blah blah i have to repeat myself over and over again. READ WHAT I WROTE IN THE FIRST POST AND YOU SAVE 90% OF YOUR TIME POSTING HERE. You never fail to mention in your posts, that you, personally, easily got used to it. Let me show you how much this is not an argument, with help of a metaphor. If you dont understand it, take a look at the (((((brackets))))). A man goes into a restaurant and orders a turkey sandwich. ((((((((( A man wants to play Dayz Standalone ))))))))))))))) The counter person asks: "We don`t have any turkey in stock right now and it won`t be delivered until in a few weeks." ((((((((( Full release will take place in a year or so. You can try the alpha ))))))))))))))) "Oh, alright. Im gonna take an egg sandwich then." "Ok. The price is, lets say a dollar. It would actually cost 2 dollars but since you looked forward to turkey, i guess that discount might brighten your day" (( reasonable price, plentiful patches, nice developers )) "Wow! Much appreciated!" "Would you mind if our trainee cook preparated the meal? He is very new." (((((((((((( Alpha disclaimer ))))))))))) "Many people have to learn by doing. It`s fine" The man received his sandwich. It looked absolutely wonderful and tasty. The man told the waitressto give the cook credit for such a masterpiece. ((( Dayz has a very promising concept, very nice ideas))) He took a first bite... "Oh no! What the----! Something tastes very weird..." He seperated the buns and had find out, that the otherwise perfectly fine sandwich, for some incomprehensible reason, had a big shitstain right above the tomatoes. ((((current DayZ mouse movement))) Most people would return the sandwich right here, even tho they do not really want to give the trainee a bad reputation. The crucial point is that they do want to enjoy their meal, and simply are unable to ignore the shitstain. No matter from which angle they look, everytime it comes any close to their mouth the stinging smell of shit violently kills their appetite. In panic, they try to grab the ketchup, but there is none avaible ((((mouse acceleration options)))). They now realize that they are just unable to gulp it down. The very thought of excrement invading their mouth area makes them belch. They give up and call for the waitress. A tiny group of people (the lucky ones) do not even notice that there is anything wrong with it, because they lost their taste buds in an accident. Another little group of people just realize there is a shitstain on their sandwich, after they take their second or third bite. They almost finished the sandwich now. And they paid for it. It doesnt taste THAT bad, to them.... because, hey, they reached the third bite, right? At this point they are really proud of themselves. They feel superior to the first group of people, knowing they adapted to such an environment. They order another one, and another one. For some reason, all of these sandwiches have a little shit on them. After eating a few of them, they begin to genuinely like them, after a few more, they start melting away at the sole thought of buying another shitstained sandwich. Does that mean they are better at eating shitstained egg sandwiches? Yes. Does that mean they handled the situation better? Hard to say. Does anyone profit from this situation? No. Would the kitchen maybe profit from better hygiene? Probably. If the red bar is fast, as you say, and the arrows represent the range of player mouse movement, it should be the other way around. If player movement exceeds a certain value of "fast", there is an issue. That issue should not exist. Shit-stained egg sandwich. Limiting the upper value for speed of mouse movement to a realistic value DOES help. Negative mouse acceleration has to be deleted because it is a broken system. It is completely f**ked up.Quick mouse movement will mostly be responded to with slightly less quick ingame movement.-> quick movements are as quick as real life permits. Not more, not less. Again, i do not want 1:1 input. I know my suggestion in practice would maybe feel a little akward compared to most FPS. Thats what it should be like. The current system is just completely and utterly broken.

I return from work just to see that Mercules and Karmaterror have pooped all over the thread. Here we go... in can spin about 360° in one controlled smooth motion, too. It takes approx. 2.2-2.6 seconds. This does not sound a lot, but it is, compared to reality. Human beings move twice as fast.And they dont have to move this steadily and this controlledly not to fall down and break their hip. Watch a match of Tennis. What kind of argument is that? Yes, the devs implemented it for a purpose. It should add weight to the weapon and make the movement speed more realistic. Weapons do not weigh 50 kilograms. The purpose was utterly missed/overshot, resulting in problems so radical, that even 1:1 input would be a more realistic solution. Your perception of realistic speed is probably as restricted and distorted as from the guy above you. Your tummy feeling says its normal. My experiment shows it isnt. I doubt im doing anything wrong, since i tested it under every possible circumstance anyone here brought forward. I moved my mouse gently, fast, controlled, softly, changed my windows mouse sensitivity configuration, changed and fooled around with my ingame configuration countless times, compared it to other games, compared it to a realistic environment.... and there are many others here who suffer from the same problem. Please, tell us how to "do it right". Oh, wait. You cant. You only come here to post stupid memes to disguise the fact that you have no real arguments. Karmaterror, I wrote all that text, including the suggestion, for people like you to actually read it. Please do so, in the future. Skimming through does not count as reading. The mouse movement speed would be increased from the current version. The current version moves way too slowly. That would be a wanted effect, yes. You got that right.Im not sure what you mean with "you can get from point A to B on the mousepad quicker".... your real life mouse movement is not influenced...? Thats only partly right. In my suggestion, you will be slowed down when accelerating speed exceeds 300°/s. In this case, your movement speed would stay at these 300°/s, instead of going to 570°/s like in most shooters, and instead of going down to 30°/s like in Dayz. You are correct that until mouse movement reaches 300°/s, no negative mouse acceleration would take place. Negative mouse acceleration, at this stage, is not even closely matured enough to justify its existence in any FPS. In real life, the time it takes to accelerate a 3.5kg M4 to 300°/s only has a marginal effect on the overall turning duration, and also not even closely justifies doubling the time of motion. Wrong. - slowed down max. mouse speed- drastic widening of crosshair when acceleration exceeds 200°/s until it goes below that again and a buffer time period has passed --> Try to twitch shoot and you won`t hit anything. Please read my suggestion again. Try to grasp it. Yes it is in their comfort zones. I dont want it either, but i would prefer it to the Dayz version because it is m o r e r e a l i s t i c .....Yes the Arma 2 devs tried to make their version more realistic than ego shooters. It backfired, sadly. Humans are able to vary their movement speed while in motion. Just watch a match of Tennis. Yeah I DONT WANT THAT. Some people here want it because they current system sucks in every regard. Yes it gives the gun weight. about 50 kg. Guns dont weigh that much and holding stuff does not impair your neck movement.

"Prior to that I used the free look button to look around" Holding ALT only is of limited help. Pressing ALT and moving the mouse only accomplishes head movement and does not carry the crosshair with it. This, in itself, is fine. It helps you look into directions faster. But, there are a few significant problems: - You do not automatically walk into the direction youre "free looking" to. Indoor navigation is not made easier, because: - in order to really face a door, you have to let go of ALT and adjust your body position. There is only a limited scope of rotation that holding ALT can accomplish. If you held ALT during the whole time scavenging a house, you would end up going backwards or something. Its not easy to explain, you best try that out yourself - Having to release ALT pretty much resets your core problem. Lets say you sense somebody behind you and want to shoot him. Holding ALT and moving the mouse enables you to look diagonally behind yourself rather fast. You spot the threat behind yourself, and now you have to let go of ALT again, because your crosshair wasnt carried with the view. This makes you face completely away from him again and confronts you with the exact same problem you had before. And then you are shot in the back. In Dayz, the head either moves solely and has to snap back to its original position if you consider using your arms, or (in cooperation with the arms) moves at the speed of snail. This does not reflect reality (see the picture i drew in paint in the first post)

i would play in 1st person, since looking around corners in 3rd person is kind of a cheat. But because 1st person is just generally too clunky, im only gonna resume playing DayZ when improvements took place.

So, you buy a device that compensates for Dayz` shitty mouse movement and then come on here to tell me there is nothing wrong with it? LOL. I might actually give this a shot, tho, it looks promising. But it shouldnt even be necessary. EDIT: just took a look around on amazon..... well.... how much did you pay for your TrackIR? No i had it turned off. You can see my mouse options menu on multiple tests in the Youtube Video. I just tried to raise the aiming deadzone-bar... it would always set itself back to 0% after quitting the menu.

Which is a stupid concept. Please read my first post in here. Good for you. I could try to adapt to this way of mouse movement, like i adapted to it in 3rd person. It`s still unrealistic, restricting and punishing for no reason. To achieve a more or less fluid motion in Dayz, you have to apply a gently as f*ck sweep and sacrifice almost twice the time you would take for such motion. You`re happy with the mouse movement? That may be because you do not realize how slow you are only able to turn in a fast-paced situation, or on how many door frames you get stuck. I do not complain about everything. If you read through my first post and my experiment, you would maybe understand that it is, in fact, an existing flaw.

i tried it again with ingame mouse sensitivity turned town to 0%. the thing is: sometimes turning doesnt feel all that bad, while its still way slower than reality. other times you need 3 motions to turn around, even tho my mouse pad is wider than regular size. since i mostly keep my mouse pretty much in the middle-ish area of the pad, this is still a problem. I can not predict in which direction I need to turn next to ensure that there is enough mousepad to make a gentle, fully pulled through sweep that makes me face that way. changing the walking direction in a circle (from "W" to "A" to "S", for example) helps a bit. If my mouse ends up being 8cm apart from my keyboard, and i want to make a left turn, my mouse collides with my keyboard and i have to reposition the mouse. Like, I do a 200° turn, spot my enemy, reposition my mouse, begin to movemy crosshair towards him and then the negative acceleration kicks in and totally kicks me out of concept. It just feels so awkward compared to other games and i think im gonna have to pass on first person gameplay if it stays that way.

tested it with fully cranked up mouse sensitivity in windows settings, highest DPI (buttons on my mouse) + Dayz Mouse Sensitivity 0%, Moving the mouse as gently as required Result: 2.25s/360° -> as unrealistic as CoD, pretty slow, if you accidentally get above max acceleration -> spastic slow down tested it with lowest possible mouse sensitivity in windows settings, lowest DPI (buttons on my mouse) + Dayz Mouse Sensitivity 0%, with each gentle and fast mouse movement at a time Result: - Having to apply 3 sweeps to make a 360° turn