OldMoto

my 2 cents: Not really like the serbu super shorty idea, is too strange gun imho... but I would like to see a classical "mad-max feel" sawn off shotty you can put in the secondary (pistol) slot: Powerful, but very slow to recharge and obiovsly with only 2 rounds - can be the "civilian" alternative to 9 para submachine guns. About shotgun ammo, I think the game need double-ought (00) buckshot rounds - every buckshot firing 8 pistol round in the same time, so you can do 8x889 damage in one shot, but 00 bucks more slow to regain from recoil than normal birdshot rounds. Range must be very short, I think about 25-50 mt max. In real life 12ga shutguns with 18-20'' barrels loaded with 00 bucks are one of the preferred choice and one of the most powerful rounds for self-defense. It is obiovsly you can use 12ga 00 buck in every type of 12ga you find (pump, semiauto, overunder and side-by-side shotguns) S&W in .500 caliber is imho a too much rare gun in a country like chernarus - maybe the classic .44 magnum like s&w model 29 is better if you want to put another 6shot in the game. The same can be applied at other guns in the game (es: 7,62x54 mosin nagant is more like to find in a Russian country than a .303 british Lee Enfield) but it's the same for me Don't understand why the UZI, actually we already have PDW - it is not the same gun? Steyr AUG is ok for me

I'm playing in a epoch mod server and i've seen (but not tried) a .338 lapua bolt-action 5 shot magazine rifle, slowly to fire and reload, can be a good replacement for as50 and m107

I think adding some roleplay mechanics can increase the fun I train to explain myself, im not english and @work so be patience :-) With a basic attribute system like you can customize a little more your character. Ex: Character creation - all attributes base is 5 point You have 5 point to spend . Strength: carry much, more melee damage, more resistant to damage and sickness Intelligence: all skills (see below) increase fast, build/repair more things, increase medical skill Agility: you are more fast, make less noise, maybe special camouflage options? With skills system you can do things and use tools. Skills increase in time with train: no magic potions - the more you do a thing , the more you learn from that. You can try use a tool even without the relative skill, you give only less advantages from that tool. Some "special" tools can require higher attributes and skills (ex: drive a ) Ex: Military: better use of full-auto, sniper, light machine guns, anti-material guns Survival: hunting-fishing-farming, better use of civilian (one-shot and semiauto) guns, crafting and sheltering Engineering: build, fix, driving Medical: make drugs, medications, cure from dependency/illness, give transfusions So you don't need to be particulary skilled to use a Makarov or a double barrel shotty, sure if you grab a DMR you can pull the trigger but is less like you can hit your target from distance and you are more slow to recover from recoil and reload that thing, when you shoot it for some time (the more you do a thing, the more you learn from that) you became more proficient with that. You don't need to be a survivalist to fill your canteen from a fountain. But make your own food and drinks by catch gut and cook that small game is more difficult and proficient without hunting and fishing skills. You can drive a car and change a broken wheel, but without some engineering skills you can't fix with spare parts an engine And so on...

I understand your "no need of skill/attributes/luck system, just put real life mechanics and rules in the game engine better as you can and let the player choose by himself how to do something" approach...that would be awesome, but - you know - we are talking about mechanisms for a zombie MMORPG game, real world rules and behaviours are simply too many and too difficult to simulate even in a decent way :-) The arma2 ballistics engine is good in his attempt to simulate real gun ballistics and behavior (and i appreciate much that) but necessarily lack many things, like muzzle flash (but i've read they put that in arma3 engine) but such a great effort cannot be make on every aspect, physics chemistry etc.

And you cannot do something like that only with a driven-by-gear system, you need to introduce skill point, or luck, or something like that

I'm thinking pretty same as you about the three attributes I mentioned before - like strength, intelligence and agility. And I like very much the no-level no-skills no-frills of dayz. But maybe can be better if you can't repair an engine in 4-5 second with only an ItemToolbox In fact i'm not so sure about introducing an STR/INT/AGI system - it can be a "boost" for the time you need to "learn" something to master that things and maybe some kind of "prerequisites" to use the best end-game equipment (es: you can need an INT >5 to became a 100% "little sure shot" Annie Oakley's son :) I'm sure that driven-by-gear-and-experience system i'm talking about is not perfect - for example it can't be too "hard" because if you die you need more time to "rebuild" your character and lose everything you learn and you own so it can be very frustrating. I think adding just a little more complexity can make this great game even more fun and interesting - but surely i don't know how much of this "complexity" is need and especially how much is worth (if "the game is worth the candle")

A real-knowledge system would be wonderful, but I think is almost impossible to implement and imho you risk to overburden to game. At best you can have a crafting system system driven by gear and/or prerequisites (recipes) but as you already stated, you can simply go to wikipages for the knowledge. That's why I like to think a driven-by-experience-and-gear system is better than a driven-by-gear-only system. I repeat, I think a kind of "experience" system that is fully "transparent" to player, so you don't need to manage XP point; No XP point on your HUD (I like no HUD at all), you gain experience in a natural way just while you play as normal. So you are better than another player not just because you drink/read/carry an item, but because you are have "learned" to survive more long so you are more "skilled" Just make things a little more difficult the first time you use that sniper gun - make your aim tremble and/or lower the probabilities to hit your target at x mt. of distance - i'm sure something like is not so difficult to implement at programming level - actually in the mod when you feel pain your hands tremble and you need to take a painkiller, so I think is not so a big change on the overall gameplay. You can continue to play as you want just like now, you just need need x experience (and a attributes like intelligence can lower that time) to master that sniper rifle. Surely there are pro and cons too in every kind of approach, but I think a system like this can - for example - reward your "survival time" (a 30 days survivor can be more tough and hard to die than a 0 dayz survivor) and encourage player interaction for fresh spawns (at day 0 you are more weak). The worst can be a more hard learning curve that can discourage causal players or players who like to play games like <insertyourfavoriteFPShere> I'm sure (and that's not problem with that) not everyone like to play a game where you cannot fire immediately the BFG gun, so bohemia can make less ;) but i heard of a game called wordofwarcraft full of stats attibutes and buttons in the interface and is still played by millions of people who pay for play ;-) As my topic speaks, imho a bit - and I say in the title- a bit more complexity can significantly raise the game fun and immersion.

yes the 650 is the bottleneck

You can gut them and make fantastic meat recipes :-)

Double feeds, malfunctions, slamfires, maintenance...I love that but if think is out of the scope of the game But you have my beanz

It's a nice idea but on the other side it means you can transform yourself in a medic in a matter of seconds by carry a epi-pen or antibiotics... It's too much like swallow that magical potion or carry that magical sword

I'm a big fan of fallout 1 and 2, play 3 as well, but I don't like the idea of "magic books" like "magic potions" that teach you something without getting experience, so I prefer a "transparent to player" system based on how much you practice that skill - but some kind of "blueprint" requirement - you must have the skill, attributes AND acquire in some manner the blueprint can be ok for me. And now that your friend has invested time and skills to know how to drive an helicopter, but is not so good as you with guns and has less strength, he need you more to defend his life, and you need him to drive that heli - so although he is not so good with that fancy sniper guns is really one of the damn important man of the group. Something like that happens in the current dayz too: In my experience i see in a group of people play together most of the time there's a preferred driver, and people are more happy if the heli is driven by your aged and skilled pilot and not the last man that join your clan

Mmh that's a sort of "dynamic" class driven by gear and not by skills If I understand well

Yes, even if you survive for 50 days and you mastered military skill you can be killed by a 0 days survivor wihout particural skills and with a single Makarov shot in the head, just like now Or maybe the one who kill you is the same who bought from you that repair service he cannot do himself, and just you finish to repair his car that bastard shoot you in the head to gut you to and eat your flesh. You die not only for zombies or other player, but also from malnourishment, or illness. Death must be more painful, not only a 30 minute run through cherno/elektro to get the only 5 basic tools you need to survive (hatchet, knife, matches, canteen, empty tin can) and you must reacquire the skill to understand how to use that 7,62x51 scoped gun without tremble too much - if you manage to find the ammo Don't wanna some "word of warcraft" or other fantasy crap with that fancy magical sword and mystic robes I'm thinking about "a canticle for leibowitz", "I am legend", "the road", "vic and blood" But IMHO for that you need an almost basic attributes and skill system, think about fallout 3 - was a great success even if based on attributes, skills and other maths stuff: i'm sure lotta people can understand and manage a system with 3 attributes and 5 skills in 2013 :-)

Exactly

Then sorry, and thank you for the clarification.

I like the simplicity and emergent gameplay of dayz, i'm just thinking about more things to do, in more ways. So I'm thinking about something like "doomsday preppers" than "lord of the rings" ;-) In my thoughts intelligence stats has only influence on skills or can be a requisite for something "special": You cannot acquire knowledge drinking potions like a RPG fantasy game, you are not a skilled sniper only because you find a .50 caliber. The more you do the more you learn, and with more intelligence you can simply gain skill more fast, or repair special things For example, almost anyone can change a car wheel. But you need some mechanic skills to fix an engine, and if you want to fix that military heli with only spare parts you scavenge from another type of hely you need to be something like a skilled engineer - so you can require x skill point and x point intelligence to repair that kind of high-level vehicle. Everyone can pull a trigger - but a .50 caliber is more proficient in the hands of a trained user, so if you have more skill is more like you land a critical hit at distance, or you can reload fast... a gun is not so simple to manage if you never practice shooting, even a 9x19 pistol can be hard for the novice - i see many first time shooters unable to hit something big like a 15'' LCD screen at 25 mt with a 9 mm pistol. Same thing for other stats like strength and agility, and skills like hunting and fishing i mentioned before. More strength and you need only a hit to slay a zombie with a crowbar. You can try to catch small game even if you never hunt in your life, but sure it's more difficult to do. If you never butch and cook a rabbit you gain only +500 blood instead +1000 when you eat it Skills are the best things to have for survive in a harsh environment like z apocalypse. Sure you need tools too, but skills are more important and more hard to get. I don't care about humanity system, you can live by hunting 4-legged or 2-legged animals, the choice is yours :) You cannot understand if one is good or bad from the clothes. The more you live, the more you know, and if you die you lose everything, not only everything you own, but everything you know. So if you die you can't simply ride cherno or elektro in an half hour to regain basic equipment, find a couple of wheels an engine and a fueltank part, fixin that car spawn north of balota in 10 second and running to NW airfield to snipe someone cause now you have many thing to do before that ;-)

I try to explain myself in my crappy english :-) and i'm at work so i don't have much time to write now.. I hope the developers of the standalone put a skill system because i think a game like dayz is more like a roleplay game rather quake 3 arena with zombies... but at least a skill system is a level system :) Maybe somewhat like a primary and secondary skill that you choose when you born, where the more you practice the more you take skill point to invest - by the way i think the same skill system must be applied even to guns because in real life you cannot kill a human size target at 1000 mt without proper train ;-) - that you can spend at the end of the day It's something like the "you should rest and meditate..." morrowind-style if you know what i mean ;) Example of skill list should be: - military train (assault rifles, snipers and anti-personnel) - civilian (pistols, semi-autos, shotguns, carbines) - driving air/sea vessels - hunting/fishing/farming - medical and first aid - mechanical (build/repair) Stats: A basic strength/intelligence/agility that influence the skill above; A healt system more complex than infected/not infected status - for example, you must eat some vegetables to live healty, not only beans :-) KoS: I think is discouraged by adding more game complexity - at least dayz is a mod for a FPS game and people playing FPS games want that. People like play roleplay games like different styles of play, at least in my experience i see that. Just my 2 cents :-) Ciao, OldMoto