hoik

Scavanging through the trash at NWAF... ...and it paid off! Found a couple nice gorka jackets! Later I was making a nice camp at the two small camo tents - thought I'd take a pic then changed my mind... shortly after I heard foot steps, turned around and looked into the eyes of my cowardly killer... not a word was spoken :(. ( But really what did I expect :P )

Might be after a rabbit and are just accidentally beating on each other (I've seen them both chase and kill rabbit's and inadvertently hit each other, though not at the same time :) )

This idea is to create an ultimate end game that is the overiding story of the game. Put simply, it tries to bring the big picture of DayZ into play - This isn't just your story. The Doomsday Clock This is a mechanic that could be used to keep track of how close any particular server/hive has come to utter extinction. It could work like this: - The 'clock' sits at ten minutes to midnight (Human extinction, end game, total server/hive reset) - Any death, be it PvP or environmental, moves the 'clock' forward a infintesimal amount. For example lets say 10sec. - Time can be added to the clock in many ways, my suggestion: --- every 48hrs the average life expectency (ALE) of the players on a given server is recalculated. --- Survive for 2x the ALE add 2mins to the clock --- Survive for 4x the ALE add an additional 3mins --- Survive for 4+ the ALE and add an additional 30sec for each iteration of the ALE. These number are of course arbitrary and would require proper ingame testing tweeking/ and thought. The end game to end games! So what happens when humanity fails to survive? heres what I think: - the only way to leave the game is by dying - The abort button is greyed, much like in the combat logging system. Maybe it is replaced with a suicide button instead? Or a extinction button :) . - players wishing to join the server are given a warning (maybe?) - Players have a limited amount of time to contemplate their demise, an hour or two maybe, then the server, players and clock are reset. With people "raging into the night", I imagine the server going to hell would be a chaotic experience!! Preemptive Q & A Why would anyone want this? They may not, so IMO a system like this should be a server setting. Doomsday Clock: Enabled! Wouldn't this be a griefer/hackers wet dream? Giving the players the power to do a full reset on a server, yeah I imagine so. IMO this type of system could absorb, to some amount, hacking/mass killings. If a server is repeatedly being hacked in order to bring about a reset, the hacking would have to be of a extreme nature. If this went on unchecked there is obviously a admin problem as well, so that server is probably not worth your time. Because this idea can effect everyone so dramatically, it may be another reason this idea is best suited for private hives/whitelist servers. Why would there be an imaginary clock counting down our demise? Well, there wouldn't. The 'clock' is mearly a metaphore to explaine how this idea works. There should be no (or very very minimal) visual indicators of the overall workings of this idea. Prehaps forums could take a role in how people guage any given server. I think more important than knowing the exact state of affairs is the knowledge that this system is in play and your every false step, and the false steps of others, matters (pretty awsome IMO). Why would dying cause the 'clock' to shift towards midnight? It signifies the loss of you and all your potential to drive humanity forward - if not through your actions, then at the least through your ability to procreate. This should also answer why more time is added for living longer than the ALE.

Hmm, yeah I know of PAX, but how does this integrate into the art departments to do list?

You broke the hay bail by the looks of it :) .

What does this mean? "Work to support PAX Prime / Astro collaboration"

lol, I like that last pick Marc "friendly...". That new stuff has just come across from experimental! I think it rolled over to stable yesterday. @Liquid.I've only dabled with After Effects - thought it was more to do with movies/animation - great result for 5mins work.

Here's a couple ragdoll pics, it adds a bit of spice! Triple kill This guy suicided running up the stairs :P

"New character stances" Well that sounds interesting! (Assuming this doesn't mean new gestures...) PS: Love that tent! Can you close up the front door flap?

Wow, liquid nice pic! Here's some hunting action (with new death animation!) "Dig in boys, no part of this animal goes to waste."

Jets, Tanks, APC's? Ok...

Horror set: SURPRISE MOTHER F&^%ER!!

Hi, I thought, given the renewed discussion in server restarts and loot drops, I would point people towards a couple of old threads of mine that discuss a dynamic loot system that takes into account the players actions as a whole and distributes loot accordingly. I came up with the core idea well before the standalone, but as the standalone has developed so has the viabilities of these ideas. The Dooms Day Clock: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/105714-global-causality-within-the-scope-of-dayz/?hl=%2Blife+%2Bdeath+%2Bcalculator#entry996539 The Life/Death Calculator: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/8616-lifedeath-calculator-intrinsic-valueculture/?hl=%2Blife+%2Bdeath+%2Bcalculator I think they contain some interesting discussion if nothing else :) .

Im gonna necro this thread too, this subject is a more refined version of the "life death calculator" thread.

THE OP (WITH SOME EDITS) The overall concept was developed to make each players life in DayZ have a clear value. This idea lays on the proviso that there is a HIGHLY DYNAMIC LOOT DROPING SYSTEM (as well as many others :P) The system will work by giving players the ability to directly infuence both the quality and quantity of loot in game simply by the actions that they take - and by influencing resources it can also affect both the difficulty of the game and the cultural behavior of the players. So here is the proposition: *Each server keeps a log of the no. of deaths (by PvP) that occur. It also logs the total number of players. Dividing No. of Deaths against players gets an average player death count. (This indicates co-operative behaviour) *Each server also logs players average lifespan. (This indicates survivalist behaviour) *These two data sets can then be assigned to a value on a scale that will determin loot density and value (which, of course, is the difficult part) (edit) I will clarify what I mean by 'loot value'. In this idea I divide all items into two groups - Essentails and Exotics. Beans, matches, civilian grade weapons, etc = Essentials Nvgs, GPS, miltary grade weapons, etc = Exotics I know that items value are subjective (objective??) to the situation, but for this idea to work there will have to be a definate 'artificial' distinction. Here is an example: Lowest End of Scale - (Very High Death Count/Low Average Lifespan) - Loot Density = 100% - Exotic Loot Chance = 2% Highest End of Scale - (Very Low Death Count/High Average Lifespan) - Loot Density = 2% - Exoticy Loot Chance = 100% And everything inbetween...and it is this "inbetween" where all the intrest lies. The dynamic scenarios that would naturaly occur are very exciting as well as being very logical. (edit) A possible issue is that of players skipping from server to server in hope of exploiting servers with better chances of Exotic loot: But this assumes that determining the current state of server wil be easy - it wont! There will be no visual indicator (on the hud) to allow a quick analysis of the game world. So... players will have to search and explore (and by extention interact with the game world) for some time before a judgement could be made on the state of a server - and heres the good bit - simply by do this they will actually be helping to shape the state of any given server!! Therefore even those that try to 'skirt' the system are inevitably drawn into it. THE 'CYCLE' (edit) This part is just where I can theoretically see this type of 'global causality' system going, like I said before, it does rely on a lot of other additional content to flesh it out - as it is mearly the basis on which a dynamic DayZ could be built. At the low end of the scale - with plentiful food supplys and low level weapons - there will be a tendancey for chaos and violence. But as groups organise, setup basecamps, restore vehicles and develop culturally acceptable behaviour, naturally the average lifespan will rise and the death count will go down. But this in turn will lower the amount of available resources while better arming the community. If the community continues to work in pure co-operation, their technology advances whilest resourse deminish further and further. The average death count plummets while the Life expectancy rises till it leeds to a tension point where resource become so limited the only way to survive will be to turn on eachother - the death count sky-rockets, life expectancy plumets - and it all begins again! "This is key. The cyclic nature of this dynamic is very important..." - Malleovic How it may effect culture and give value to life in DayZ I hope it is obvious how this (could) influence decision making when it comes to killing other players. It will not discourage or penalise player decisions persay, but will make their decisions have a conciquence - a non-imediate one, one that is only negative or positive depending on your standpoint, with no moral concequence other than those imposed by your fellow survivours. Prehaps outright murder will become some what of a social taboo (looked down on, but unstopable) because life is now directly linked to the quantity and quality of loot - to better your chances co-operate, or at the least rob someone rather than murder them. I know that even this level of, "guidence" lets call it, is too much for some people. So i see this as an option that can be implemented on a server by server basis - with the severity of influnce a player has over the loot density/quality of items being fully adjustable by admins. Of course this will directly influence the "worth" of other players to eachother. I'll stop here because i can go on and on, but will conclude by saying that in my mind the most important role a system like this could take is to act as a catalyst for cultural behaviour within the game. "My only "fear" is that most of people, specially in an apocalyptic world, are selfish and don't give a damn about the long term." - Mikyjax (edit) The 'selfish' outcomes of this idea are just as valid as the 'humane' ones - all I ask is for the players to be more aware of the impact of their actions, and their possible outcomes. Then give everyone tools to allow them to enforce direct concequences on individuals that act outside any groups 'norms'. "The particulars are hidden from the player well enough, it could enhance without being a distraction." - Malleovic

Seeing as the 24 hour server restarts testing on experimental, and the conversation it has generated around loot distribution/ scarcity etc, I thought it a good time to electrify the neck-bolts on this old thread. I think it'ed be great to get some fresh perspectives on it! For me loot is the core of this game, everything derives from how it is handled - with some creative management of the loot I think you could generate a genuinely unique game play experience in Dayz.

Very exciting stuff! Yes there is a lot of negativity flying about the place in regards to the last update, but this game still holds so much potential - i guess some people have no sense of perspective...

I think this should be the final word on the matter:

hahaha ... hey, at least we came to a consensus!

I don't argue with any of the facts you propose, just that there is a difference between a wild boar and a feral pig - no matter if it is insignificant. The fact the term 'hybridization' is used when describing the mating of a feral pig and wild boar suggests to me there is a mixing of unique characteristics. Anyway I think we agree! The pig model (though very impressive) should probably look more like a wild boar and less like a domesticated pig, for authenticity's sake.

Time for my butt to speak: From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_boar The problem is you insisting that wild boars and feral pigs are the same thing - as far as I can tell they are not. So I think this statement is correct - but not because they 'turn into wild boars'. Though they may take on similar appearance to wild boars, domesticated pigs and their feral counterparts remain a distinct sub-species! Feral Pig: EDIT: Obviously that first quote IS NOT from Etherimp.

Well as far as I can tell (I needed to google this...) domestic pigs are a distinct subspecies of wild boar and despite various physical changes that may occur, if they become 'feral', they are not actually biologically changing into wild boars. Did you know there is such a thing as a 'pig toilet'? ...poor bastards...

You can skip this first bit and go straight to the actual idea, it is my personal conclusions and not neccecary to understand the mechanics of the proposition. _____________________________________________________________ I'd just like to point this out to those who haven't already come to this conclusion - this game will NEVER be a acurate simulator because this relies on true freedom, real concequences and for everyone in the game to have a genuine intrinsic value as HUMAN BEINGS rather than infintly reincarnating mobile-loot-drops. I have tried my hand (theory: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12557 and implementation: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295 ) at comming up with a mechanic that would create "freedom" by giving a global value to everyone in the game - please read them as I belive they have merit and will appeal to those who value freedom. IMO gamers have been conditioned not to think because of a lifetime of being dicated to by video games. Even when games try to counter this by asking a player to make a moral decision (Which is EXACTLY what DayZ is asking you to do, even if that decision is completley immoral/amoral), they fail and actually REINFORCE the norm by using hard and fast rules to "guide" players rather then let them and their (gaming) community decide for themselves what is right and wrong - the outcome is then always a irresponsible attitude. Personaly there needs to be a general adjustment of thinking - why would you want DayZ to take the easy road when it could be so much more inovative and a genuine shift in how we view games. ____________________________________________________________ This is my proposition on a "free" gameworld based on rules - all it aims to promote is thought. "You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead, hands..." This phrase is the idea behind a singel "primary" mechanic that will infuence a group of "secondary" mechanics. By making black/white rules define a SINGLE option each, and making each of those single options influence EACHOTHER (and heres the interesting part) each rule will in effect have many influences that do not tell you what you can and can not do, but makes you think before you decide HOW you are going to do it. This idea takes artistic licence and is not "realistic", but aims to create a subtle, unimposing set of rules. The primary mechanic is this: - On spawn a player will have two items (example) automatically set as being in their "Death Grip" with a hand icon ( or lock symble, does not matter). This means that those items can only be taken from you if you are dead - a player can change their "death grip" on to any item they choose to at any time. Now I know this sounds contradictory - surely this would PROMOTE PvP - and by itself it would. But this is where the other "secondary" rules come into play, these are: ........... 1. When a players is killed by PvP action the loot in the "death Grip" can not be taken from the backpack - you can take everything else, but you can't access the loot which the dead player valued most (unrealistic, but valid "artisticly"). 2. When you commit a murder your "death grip" is loosened for a period of time. Cumilitive kills have an expenetial effect on the timer - This means that when you murder other players you void your death grip for a time that is effected by kill frequency and not kill amount. So - if killed while your "death grip" is loosened, you can be fully looted. 3. If a player whose (void) "death grip" cooldown is high (indicating they have killed A LOT of people in succession) gets killed by PvP - the reprecussions on the person who killed them would be minimul (This means their grip would be void for a very short time and so would the indicators that they have just murded someone). This IS directly aimed at greifers and people who SOLEY rely on kill-looting as these are the most "thoughtless" playes in the game. 4. (optional: personally im not in favour of very obvious 'bandit' indicators) The cumiltive timer of a void "death grip" could be associate with visual and/or audio ques (such as "peace status"armband loss, gore = kill amount, or heart beat 'intuition') that will give a indicator that a players has recently killed someone - as said before the more successive kills the longer this "indicator" would take to where off. ........... Thats a far as I'll go with "secondary" mechanics, but they could be endless (as long as they dont assume a right/wrong attitude) as they are essentially a CAUSE and EFFECT- I would be very interested to see if others could find ways to incorperate their own ideas into this mechanic! 1 LAW to RULE THEM ALL! This is my logic on how this single "primary" rule and four "secondary" rules can tackle some of the most biteing issues (IMO) in the game - without penalising anyones play-style (from greifer to co-op junkie) just making them relevant. - PVP IN GENERAL PvP is a 'problem' for this simple reason - At the moment the weights of the game are 100% in the favour of very, very basic PvP with no reason to think of more imaginitive ways to get what you want off other people than shooting them on sight - That is why these rules are all a big buff for non-PvP play. This is how I see it: A Scavangers price for loot = TIME SPENT (this gives their loot value). Kill-looters pay this same price (loot = TIME SPENT) for their loot, but then CAPITILISE on other players time spent without paying for it - and on top of that they then punish them further by making them start all over again. The combination of the 'Five' rules simply add a tax onto kill-looting in the form of becoming a more attractive target - not too a bad a IMHO. So that is how I see it taking on greiving/ high kill bandits without discouraging killing others for loot - it simply rewards smart kill-looters and punishes dumb ones. - GROUP DYNAMICS and TRUST In general it will help with trust simply knowing that there is SOME thought proccesses going on : ) . - "SURRENDER" OPTION If a GOOD surrender animation was made this idea could help in negotiating with captors as they can not access your 'death grip' gear without some negotiation. The point being this actually GIVES the hostage some power in the situation and could arise in situations where compromises are found, this is taken from another thread of mine: "*when forced into a surrender situation (I know for some people this may NEVER be an option, but personaly I think thats a uninteligent way to approach a situation where you are hopelessly outguned) your assailants can rummage through your pack and will be able to see (with little hand icons) what items you are clinging to for dear life. *This could lead to tense (if one sided) negotiations between the bandits and the captor - but remember you as the captor have NOTHING TO LOOSE. Remember, if they take all your stuff your dead anyway - if they execute you, yes, you are dead. So making a bargin - even a tough one - is actually the smart thing to do. They may shoot you, but if they dont within the first few seconds it is highly unlikely that this is their intention and you can play to this unwillingness to take another players life. Of course this all hinges on life being given an very clear global value in the game. Without it the death of a stranger has zero impact on you, so with zero compromises you can kill him with no social or finatial impact - Im not in favour of punishing murderers, im all about freedom, but there should be mechanics which at the least make you think for a moment before putting a bullet in someones head." I would love to see others try to tie in their ideas with these five rules to validate if the system would be as flexible as I belive it could be : ) Also, before you post let me just remind you that IMO 'realism' isnt relative at all to this thread as I have already stated this idea takes artistic licence and is trying to use 'gamey' rules to kick start some thought proccesses. If you value "realsim" and more freedom see my signiture, as it takes on the other side of this argument.

I'll find those links!

Wow, quite a pessimistic outlook - but also a valid one :). All I can really say is that, yes, I guess that is a possible outcome. My only retort would be that in DayZ there is really no 'win' condition. Yes players will be able to manipulate servers and influence other players in one way or another (this is after all the purpose of the idea, and from which all the 'social' aspects can be derived), it may be good for some and bad for others but I don't think it could be definitively said that one style of play (or 'loot cycle state') is actually better than another. I think that as an individual, playing amongst these clans/factions, it would still be enjoyable and playable. But I guess I'm just being an optimist :P. I think this might feed into what I think is the Achilles heel of this idea and that is how to handle the problem that persistent characters across multiple, independent servers presents to the individual 'economy's' which will evolve. Like I mention in my previous post, what if rather than players actions influencing loot on a server by server basis, loot (across all servers) was influenced by the actions of all the players across all servers? Thoughts?