hoik

Yes the game needs this for longevity IMO. Also it is a prerequisite for the idea in my sig :P ! For those who like the idea of dynamic systems checkout this thread by Swi1ch on dynamic zombie spawning: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3420

I like your take on this idea, also going crazy IS a kind of self preservation mechanism (I mean in real life, isn't it?) maybe this could translate to the game somehow? IMO truly 'crazy' people make others nervous because it is obvious they have stepped beyond the 'norms' of society and so are unpredictable - then by extention if someone is acting 'crazy' in a apocolyptic world they must be fucking RAVING!! (what I mean is that the effects should have a subtle graidient and only mad-ass (dumb ass?) greifers should feel the true extent of this effect IMO.)

Please, for those want an original 'humanity' system that does nothing but give everyone in the game a value beyond the obvious - please consider the link in my signiture. At the very least I hope it can give you some food for thought.

Those that lean towards this idea should have a look at this post on spawning as randomised groups, it is basicly a more indepth look at this subject. Dogsbd: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10900

THIS is the humanity system at work in dayZ (ATM) - unfortunatly Vertisce you have just lost your humanity :P ! This is fair enough as this is the EASIEST way to get "ahead" (where ever that may be) in the game. If fear, anger and frustration is going to drive you towards murder and contributing to the chaos - go for it. But just remind yourself with every kill how you have become the thing you hate... People with empathy/humanity or even basic trust are VERY rare ATM - this makes them very valuable entities to other who have held onto their "humanity" despite the odds - dont give up, carry the fire Vertisce!!

Yes very cool, this is the most 'realistic' and imaginitive/astheticly pleasing answer to sensing other players morality ive come across - What id like to see with dogs is the ability for them to 'scent' dead player bodies in order to track players who have looted them. Please go here ( ChaoticRambo's thread: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=22468&page=2 ) to get a bigger picture of what I mean. It ties in completely with the ChaoticRambo's idea so you should probably read the whole thread :) (its a very good thread IMO).

Nice to see the expansion of this idea from your other thread- would 5 star it but for some reason the rating system isnt showing, is that just me?

I have posted this idea before, but it has been revised in order to make its intention much clearer. WARNING - THIS IS A HUGE POST (You can skip the MATH part :) ) THE INTENTION - To develop a way for every player to have a destinct value in regards to eachother, to counter rampant PVP. - The "life value" of a player will be implemented by making PvP actions effect both YOURSELF and THOSE AROUND YOU. - Create social presures not to commit murder (just as there is in real life) KEY FEATURES - Promotes team-play without impacting other play styles. - Players decisions have a subtle effect on the game world. Its effects will not be imediate but rather a evolution over weeks of game time. - To dynamicly affect both the difficulty of the game and the cultural behavior of the players. THE EXECUTION To implementing a sytem like this it will need 2 things: 1. a HIGHLY DYNAMIC LOOT DROPING SYSTEM 2. Layered on top of this, a system that will allow players to directly infuence both the quality and quantity of loot in game simply by the actions that they take, be it PvP or running through the wood wearing gopher hide leotards. IMPORTANT - By directly relating resources to lives you can give everyone a value. THE MATH As a very rough psudo-code this is how i see it working (this presumes a Dynamic Loot System has been implemented). The system will be run on a server by server basis: - The system tracks average PVP death count. The number of murders will be divided by the total number of players to join the server - giving a average player murder count. (This indicates co-operative behaviour). - Each server also logs players average lifespan. (This indicates survivalist behaviour). - These two data sets can then be used in conjuction to determine overall co-operation and over all survivalist behavior, which than can be assigned to variables to determin - over time - the average behaviour of the group. Eg. *PvP deaths/day = 20 AverageLifeSpan/Day = 2hrs - this would indicate low co-op and low lifespan. *PvP deaths/day = 8 AverageLifeSpan/Day = 12hrs - this would indicate medium co-op & lifespan. *PvP deaths/day = 1 AverageLifeSpan/Day = 22hrs - this would indicate High co-op & lifespan. There of course can be exceptions where you could have low PVP and low life span but not the other way around. - These values then can be applied to a scale that will determin loot density and value (which will be the difficult part and require a lot of ballancing) Here is an example: Lowest End of Scale - (Very High Death Count(Low co-op)/Low Average Lifespan) - Loot Density = 100% - High Quality Loot Chance = 2% Middle of Scale - (Medium Death Count(Medium co-op)/Medium Average Lifespan) - Loot Density = 60% - High Quality Loot Chance = 40% Highest End of Scale - (Very Low Death Count (High co-op)/High Average Lifespan) - Loot Density = 2% - High Quality Loot Chance = 100% And everything inbetween...and it is this "inbetween" where all the intrest lies. The dynamic senarios that would naturaly occur are very exciting as well as being very logical - the more people there are the less resources there will be and the higher the average level of technology - and vica-versa. Either way conflict is built into this system! SOLO-PLAY FANS READ THIS! Now before all you "lone wolf" fans jump in and say it punishes solo-play let me point out it can actually favour it and infact will give you more worth as a hermit/villan. I could explain further but this post is long enough as it is - just have a think about it. THERE WILL BE A LIFE CYCLE! BIRTH: At the low end of the scale (with plentiful food supplys and low level weapons) there will be a tendancey for chaos and violence because the value of life is nul. MATURITY: As the groups organise the average lifespan will rise and the death count will go down. But this in turn will lower the amount of available resources while better arming the community. DECADENCE: If the community continues to work in pure co-operation, their technology advances while resourse deminish further and further. The average death count will plummet while the life expectancy rises. REBIRTH: A tension point will come where resource become so limited the only way to survive will be to turn on eachother - the death count sky-rockets, life expectancy plumets - and it all begins again! HOW IT MAY EFFECT CULTURE I hope it is obvious how this will influence decision making when it comes to killing other players. It will not discourage or penalise player decisions persay, but will make their decisions have a conciquence - a non-imediate one, one that is only negative or positive depending on your standpoint, with no moral concequence other than those imposed by your fellow survivours. Prehaps outright murder will become seen as a social taboo (looked down on, but unstopable) because life is now directly linked to the quantity and quality of loot - to better your situation co-operate, or at the least rob someone rather than murder them or alternatively live on the fringes and let others team-players do the hard work while you reap the benifits. Your choices are still there - but now you have to think, for at least a moment anyway, when making a decision. THIS SYSTEM COULD BE PURELY OPTIONAL I know that even this level of, "guidence" lets call it, is too much for some people. So it should be an option that can be implemented on a server by server basis - with the severity of influnce a player has over the loot density/quality of items being fully adjustable by admins. Of course this will directly influence the "worth" of other players to eachother. THE END I'll stop here because i can go on and on, but will conclude by saying that in my mind the most important role a system like this could take is to act as a catalyst for cultural behaviour within the game.

Thanks everyone for responding. I see your point. Server hopping could be a problem with this idea' date=' but one that could be solved (IMO). My counter to your argument would be this - the density/quality of loot drops would be very subtle (not like you could jump in check some stats and then move on) it would take some time to figure out the state of the world and all the while you will be interacting with it, even if you are avoiding others - so no matter what you are still playing the "game". Also the number of players could effect the rate at which loot drops are re-calculated making low-pop servers take longer to evolve. Personally I don't see how your senario is detremantal to my idea in any way - this form of "meta-gaming" is inevitable, but would be far from as easy as you suggest. Even the laziest gamer would have to put some thought into how their actions play out in the world if they want to progress (This is ALL I ask). There will be those that jump from server to server there will be those that have put time into builing their world - they may even rely on "strangers/server hoppers" to kill in order to keep their world in equalibrium! I have been told on SEVERAL ocasions that Im not "facing the true problem"' date=' which is that some people will PvP without thought unless they are PUNSIHED by very obvious and direct (therefore VERY artificial) game mechanics. I have tryed to view this "problem" not as a player created, but a GAME mechanic that has been hard coded and needs balancing. This is a GAME after all - all the solutions are going to have to take some artist licence, but the less obvious the better (IMO). What is artifical (in the contex of the game) about loot density/quality being effected by the players lifespan/PvP? As I said in another post: "How do water shortages occur? Why is the price of petrol sky rocketing along with the price of food? People effect the resources (eg loot) around them as a by product of living- the more people there are the higher (the) demand and the less there is to go around and vica versa. I would argue it would be against the "realism" of the game if it DIDN'T have a system that modified loot accordingly :D !" Im not sure but I THINK you are pro-freedom - so am I - this idea is keyed towards as much freedom as possible WITH a bare minimum of responsibility. Though it may be too much for some, they will have face some responsibility or end up being dictated to by the game (as they are used to). If this idea was implemented well, it could be like a force of nature. So subtle as to be invisible and so unavoidable as to be undeniable - like gravity :P !

You might like a look at this http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6791 , it covers some different threads about more longterm gameplay (its good stuff :D )

Like the general direction of all your ideas. The one I find most interesting though is 3: "Longer animations. If tasks took longer, a solo player would be more vulnerable when undertaking them. Make cutting wood, preparing fires, repairing cars and doing medical procedures take much longer (you could also have some of them produce noise). You will require another player to watch your back, or cooperate on the activity to get it done faster." I really like the idea of tasks making noise that could attrack both people and zombies!

I think all the loot should be randomised (but contextually, that is military stuff will still spawn at "military" spawn points but the chances of quality/quantity are random) Would this be very had to do in ArmA?

Ok, got a sec. Well I was also puzzling over the problem of identifing individual players - but from the angle that this is essential for any sort of self "policing". The solution I came up with was more generalised, but can tie in very nicely with this one. I saw it this way: Players are given a randomised No./Letter on spawn, such as: A53S$. This would simulate the individual features we all naturally have (a hell of alot easier than making 50+ unique skins). The good thing about a No. like this is that it can allow you to have partial as well as full identification. Eg. at 300m + you migh only be able to see the last two digits ---S$. This is the equivelent of noting a persons hight/skin colour/sex. So the longer you look, or the closer you are the more digits are revealed which simulates the more detail you are getting by observing the person. For me this is good because it gives you a "pyhsical" description of a person that can be passed on in many ways - on wanted posters for example. Probably just making things too complicated, but let me know what you think.

Would be great to condence the no. of players on servers - really like your math, maybe you could have a try at a solid formula for my idea (in my signiture). It runs along simular lines, I use some really rough psudo code as I only have a very basic understanding of programming - would love to see if you could :D.

Bandits are currently in their most base form. Infact they resemble mindless animals with no concept of anything beyond their own imediate gratification - kill counters and leaderboards only encourage this single minded attitude. I know "morals" just do NOT translate in game - so there has to be "rules", ones that dont decide right/wrong but impact on your choices given your situation (IMO anyway) . Of course its easy to say this without coming up with any concrete ideas (well, theres the one in my signiture...).

No doubt - But Im sure even a apocolypse wouldn't be immune to immaturity - Maybe there could be a designated set/combination of possible tags/notes like they have in dark souls?

Just so you know, Darwin never said that :P. But I agree PvP is where the majority of the games tension comes from - There just needs SOME way to make killing interesting beyond the obvious. In many ways I think that PvP needs to be ballanced because the gain of kill/looting clearly out ways not doing it (At the moment) eg: Scavanger loot value = time spent gathering Kill-loot loot value = time spent gathering + other players time spent gathering Dont know if this is clear, but to me it is obvious that Kill-looting is the way to go because you can capitalise on others time spent - and thats why kill-looters need some kind of tax. As a "ballancing" of a GAME mechanic this makes sense, as a "realism" it equates to shit. But then again in "real" life killing is not so easy and without thought (for most of us anyway). So I end up with the same questions: How to give players value to themselves and eachother? Would this be enough to impact on thoughtless PvP? Are hard set "rules" the only thing that gamers will abide by?

I feel very stupid now for not thinking of that.:dodgy: A very good idea. YEP....remove their pride LOL.No chance to be on the leader board is incentive to steer a straight line.Kinda like in real life but instead we are being steered by Gods law of not being a killer.In game though itsdifferent as its just that' date='a game.Everyone can be a killer and then turn around and say AWW mom we ate chicken nuggets last night:@ I was also thinking a bounty depending on your murder count but that makes the world seem to too controlled instead of the chaos that a post apocalyptic world would be. [hr'] How about giving a sort of bad luck to murderers by spawning them new in areas of high bandit activity. ;) Maybe more bad luck by having a bandits sound and view difficulty very slightly more harsh. Remove all stats but days survived (imo) :P . Yes it is impossible to give players value as "human beings" in a game, so as loot is the only thing that everyone values there has to be some direct assoication between loot and players. The link in my signiture goes one step further than this idea and applies the risk/reward of PvP gloabally (see the thread to see what i mean) in a attempt to give everyone in the game a value to themselves as well as eachother. Some sort of random "perk/skill" would actually be a very good way to give individuals a unique "intrinsic" value aside from loot... The bounty is cool, but it would HAVE to be user made (IMO). There definatly needs to be a tool to help people self govern - but this would require the ability to identify everyone in the game as individuals (so they can be held accountable for their actions.) I had a thought where a randomly generated number is associated with a player on spawn - this could then be displayed when you look at them (acting like the random features we naturally have). Maybe this "pyhisical" discription could be put on a wanted poster?

I like the idea, have a look at this older thread on basicly the same idea (Here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=9891 )

Think the idea has merit as a (possible) way to make people less skittish towards eachother - but astheticly I really dont like it much.:( . If this was implemented as a tool (like the medkit or toolbox you mentioned) I think I it would be a hell'v alot more credible! So instead of someone spotting you as a medic by your clothes (very obvious) they'll have to see your carrying the medkit (in your hands/replacing gun)- this requires more observant behaviour and presevers the tense contact between strangers (which I like).