mercules

I play Warhammer and paint miniatures and create realistic looking terrain for the table. There are times I wish I could see the battlefield from the view of my models because I think it would be a lot more visceral than the 1k meter view I get from above them when playing. For me the most immersive thing when I was a child was a book, not an action figure, toy truck, or anything like that. I play Skyrim in FPV because it makes the world much different and the game much more interesting. This could be a difference in how our brains are wired but while I might feel connected to a character that I can see in TPV I do not feel their terror, shock, surprise like I do when I play a game that is in FPV.

I've never fallen off the roof IRL for that reason(although I have fallen off roofs) and I haven't done it in DayZ either while playing in FPV. So no, it doesn't happen to the best of us because it hasn't happened to me and I am fairly certain I am not "the best of us". ;)

That could help. It won't avoid things like standing behind a tree and having perfect vision of what is beyond the tree without peeking out one side or the other, but it would help. UGH... any game in TPV makes me feel like I have a puppet or an action figure. "Dance puppet! Dance!" It makes me feel like I am playing with a toy. FPV puts me in the skin of the avatar and engages me. The newere Metroid games are excellent with their FPV and limited sight, they really draw a person in.

Kids these days. While some audio might be easier to follow in some cases the text was perfectly readable and presented at a good pace.

Deer Stands can spawn matches. In fact the percentage is higher than a Grocery Store but the issue is that you have fewer spawn points per deer stand, then again there are fewer zombies around them and more deer stands.

Yes, please play music in the background so you can't hear the players or zombies coming up behind you. :D

Fraggle, The issue is that countless developers have spent years trying to figure out a good way to have TPV without the "issues" it brings. Many good ideas have been presented but they all add coding, work, and server overhead. Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best, aka, No TPV. Just solved ALL issues with TPV. Now lets focus on fixing the issues some people have with FPV which are apparently fixable since some of the people who have issues with ARMA II/DayZ FPV play other FPV games without issue.

The joke is watching you bring up an argument that has been discredited. ;) I play in 3rd because the populated servers my friends want to play on has 3rd person turned on. That doesn't mean it is actually a good idea. Honey Boo Boo was a very popular show, that doesn't mean it was good or I would have let my kids watch or I would watch it myself. So then we go into "Well you can chose not to watch Honey Boo Boo." and I do, but that means shows like Firefly which was a niche show when it was aired are NOT being produced but more episodes of Honey Boo Boo or similar crap. That means FPV servers are not being created. Have you seen the, "What happened to vanilla?" a lot of players have chosen to not play on difficult servers but instead where they have paid for loadouts or get to start with a pistol, and such. This is their choice but the choice to take the easy route and quickly become bored because that version of the game is too easy but then not wanting to go back to the harder vanilla and so just moving on is what is happening. That means fewer players around, which means more empty servers. People need to understand that what is good for the game isn't always what is good for them. They can try and flip it around and say TPV is "good for the game" but popular and good are not always the same thing and people need to stop thinking they are. Candy Crush is REALLY popular, but that doesn't mean the things that make that game popular lend themselves well to a Zombie Survivor Simulation.

Yes and no. Before zombies are agro'd on anyone you can do things that will attract their attention to a certain area. Gunfire will sometimes start zombies moving towards the sound so we have occasionally had one person find cover nearby, fire their gun a few times, and then run directly away so that the zombies will start moving in that direction but not catch up and de-agro. This is good for looting helicopter crashes and such. Other things people ignore can do the same. During the day, which is what most people play during, smoke grenades are great for attracting zombies to a certain area. If you need to go left you can toss a smoke grenade right and the zombies will rush over and investigate it. You have to be careful though because you will draw in Zombies from a wide area and if they de-agro from the smoke then and agro on you. You can alao use smoke to lose zombies since it will break LoS but remember it will pull in zombies from the other side so you will want all of them following you first and to not be running towards another potential mob. Smoke grenades can also damage buildings if inside them so you may want to avoid dropping smoke inside. At night Road Flares can be your friend. If you toss out a bunch of Road Flares zombies will start moving to investigate the light. They will move slowly towards it, but you can gather a bunch up and move past them in the dark. It won't break agro, but it will help you get some zombies out of your way. BE REALLY CAREFUL!. Flares light up the immediate area and are visible from a good way away. Players will know you are there and may be able to see you while you can't see them in the dark. Campfire can do the same thing as a road flare and lasts longer. I have actually chopped 8 wood piles and started a fire at one end of a small town and waited for the zombies to wander over there then looted. Chemlights will attract Zombies but only from a short distance away. The distance that you can see and be seen carrying one as well as the distance that it will attract zombies goes in order from the shortest to longest, "Blue->Red->Green" I have tossed a Green one out a door to get a zombie to turn one way and then gone the other and it works. Blue ones are good for being able to see your immediate surroundings without being super bright at a distance. There is also an overlooked tool. Cans and bottles can make noise when thrown and Zombies WILL go towards the noise if they notice it. So while you are cursing about finding yet another stash of empty bottles you can pick them up and then toss them to get Zombies moving in a direction. Not a bad tool when you are a fresh spawn and have nothing else in your inventory so a few bottles are not cluttering it up.

I stated "Exploit" which it is. You exploit TPV to gain more situational awareness than you in your avatar's position would have. In some games it is fine if we are all knowing or have more information than our avatar's should. In others such as Horror Simulations with a Combat Aspect(AKA DayZ) FPV can enhance you feeling of vulnerability which is what a Horror Sim and survive style game SHOULD be aiming for. Cheat is breaking the rules. Exploit is using the rules to maximum potential in a manner not necessarily intended. I don't think it was intended for people to lay down on a roof and magically watch other people at street level with a disembodied camera so they can shoot them when they look away. To back up my belief we have Dean stating he wants to correct that style of play. Need more evidence that it is not what he intended?

Don't go there. I've never played CoD and I hate run and gun games like it. Battlefield 3 is about as close as I get. I love the survival aspect of DayZ and I strongly believe the FPV and lack of supernatural senses that you have in TPV make DayZ much more interesting from a survival standpoint. Zombies become more of a threat, other players become less of a threat. TPV turns DayZ from a Zombie survival game into a broken PVP game very quickly.

But, that is not a FPV issue, that is a Motion Blur and Head Bob issue both of which can be turned off. We can ignore, "I can't because these secondary things that have nothing to do with what we are talking about cause me to not." issues. Yes, FPV has those on by default and TPV does not by default, so turn them off. :rolleyes: Okay, lets try and break this down. - I can't play FPV because it makes me ill. It isn't the FPV it is the other things that are enabled in FPV. If those are removed then FPV is just like TPV without being able to peek over and around things. FOV is the same between BOTH in DayZ. - I don't like FPV because I can't tell where I am, I get stuck in doorways. This is true and is a big issue... at first. If you play ANY game in FPV you eventually learn where your avatar is in relationship to your view and it becomes second nature. As I stated many threads back, the issue is people pop into TPV, can see their shoulders, and bypass doorways that way, but it really doesn't take long to do it in FPV. You will get your spatial awareness ~IF~ you use it. It doesn't come overnight but it does come. - I prefer TPV. As I stated, this isn't a reason, this is a conclusion. There are reasons you prefer it so state those so we can actually discuss the issue. If you don't like Lime Jello that doesn't mean you just don't like it. It might mean you don't like Jello at all because of the texture, you don't prefer the lime flavor, or even you have an issue with bright green food. The point is it is really hard to decide what could convince you that FPV isn't a bad thing if you can't express what you don't like about it or like about TPV. "I just do." is a 3 year old answer not an adult answer. - TPV might give me an advantage in some situations but you can do the same thing so it is fair. This is one of those really hard discussions. Some people see nothing wrong with "Gaming a System" which is to say they don't mind using a bad mechanic to do things they reasonably shouldn't do with it. They don't understand why there should be a limitation on it. This is really an odd position because they don't get game theory or at least the design of games. The restrictions exist to make the game fun. While it might be fun, from time to time, to have a game where you can just "blow some stuff up!" from time to time. Those games get old and boring for most people very quickly. At the same time if the game is too hard or too restrictive it becomes boring. Where that line is drawn in a sandbox game is really difficult but typically you want to start harder and then ease up? Why? because once people get a crutch they are loathe to let it go. Like Zombies not running in buildings. Notice there is already a thread up about what are we supposed to do in SA if you can't shake agro that way. ;) TPV makes the game easier. End of story. It does. It makes the PVP aspect easier in that any camper gets a HUGE advantage over people moving around. This means geared up people who already have an advantage over ungeared have even more of an advantage because an ungeared person HAS to move around and has to go to those areas where the ambusher can happily be waiting with his 4 cans of beans, 4 sodas, military grade weapon, and lots of ammo. It makes the PVE easier because you can quickly determine where zombies are in a building, around a corner, over a fence, without exposing yourself to their agro. When the game becomes that easy most people will lose interest, however at the same time most people will look for the easy way to do things. So you have a weird loop of people going to play on the TPV servers and then saying the game is boring because it is too easy. There really are times when you have to save people from their own selves. This is a huge problem in the gaming industry. Make the game easy so people will get on, play, and enjoy it and then it is too easy and they grow bored and leave because they have accomplished everything they wanted to accomplish. Make the game easy and people whine and don't want to learn how to play.

You can still see around corners and over walls and gain a tactical advantage over anyone who has to approach you from a vector where they can not be close to the barrier and do the same. It solves ~some~ of the issues. MWO is a mecha combat simulation. Yes it is PVP but it simulates what it is to be in the cockpit of a mecha with all the limitations that entails..... or it used to. DayZ is a Zombie Survival combat simulation. They are adding in a whole slew of things to do in the SA besides shoot at other people but combat is still very much a part of the game. Stealth is more difficult when you don't have magical awareness of how the zombies are moving, so even if you NEVER FIRE A SHOT, TPV helps you out in the game and makes it easier. Since the devs are adding in things like various anti-biotics to cure various diseases and gear wear and tear it seems as thought they want to move towards something that is a bit more difficult. I agree the POINT of DayZ isn't that it should be PVP. What I disagree is the thought that DayZ without the PVP aspect is not any different in TPV than it is in FPV. It is very different, with less suspense and less difficulty.

Recent additions to DayZ, Holy Book and Nails. Make whatever conclusions you want from that.

Five is a misconception, you have many more than that. ;) You will not get those others added in anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we should have X-ray vision to make up for lack of taste, okay? :)

The word you are searching for is Kinesthesis. This is the sense of your physical body and the space it occupies and moves through. When game designers add it people go, "It makes me sick to my stomach." because the game can add in the visual representation but not the actual sensation. Our body uses a bunch of visual cues to fixate our position in space. when you have a curved back or possible injury that might be pulling it out of alignment one of the things they do is have you close your eyes and "stand up straight". Why? because you tend to orientate your body so that your eyes are level. Without that cue you can see the person is not standing straight or has one shoulder lower. Your inner ear also helps with this but our bodies can detect changes in air pressure. Some can even sense nearby objects by that change and I know I can walk down a dark hallway and "feel" where there is an opening on the opposite wall just by the change in sound and pressure. BTW, 3rd person doesn't bring any of this back. You still orientate based upon your point of reference. What it does do is cut the learning time of creating a spatial awareness in game to almost nothing for those that have problems lining up to go through doors or around object in FPV. You can SEE where your shoulders are and make sure they both clear the doorway instead of having to try and fail to get through a door a few(or maybe a dozen) times like you might in FPV. Why do people have an issue going from TPV to FPV? Because they relied on those visual cues for so long and haven't learned the other visual cues or how to move without them. If you play FPV for a while it all starts to come naturally. You will NEVER have the same amount of input you would in real life, but you can gain a feeling for your avatar's body if you play FPV and it becomes natural after a while. Now, there may be those who simply can't get that feeling. My wife has issue with spatial sense in real life and that translates to games in a big way where the other sense are removed. She gets car sick and all that. However, even she can learn it well enough to maneuver around and with head bob and motion blur off she won't feel ill from play a FPV game.

So your argument is that because we don't have access to all 5 senses in a video game we should have a magic eye floating above our heads expanding one sense into the realms of science fiction and/or magic? An expansion on that sense that lets us ignore the fact that touch won't tell us a zombie is near the corner we are about to go around or further down the fence and neither would smell or taste?

The virus takes them into a highly agitated state much like Rabies, Ebola, and several others infections. They basically kick in a fight or flight reaction when they frenzy on you and start pumping adrenaline. Adrenaline can make you run longer and hit harder for a while.

That is ARMA II, the helicopter he is flying acts and reacts the same way as it does in DayZ, which he has also played. He is just really, really good because he has taken the time to fly in first person and learned the "feel" of how things work. You should watch his 3rd video in that series where he drops into courtyards in a little bird and in one case actually drops for a landing in a HANGER going into it about 60-70 KPH. Sure it might have taken multiple takes, but he can do it and he plays mainly in FPV. I have no issue if the advantages that 3rd person can be eliminated with there being TPV in the game. The issue is that many people have tried and tried to figure out a way to do so that doesn't increase the load on the server/client that pushes it past being a wise thing to implement. Needing to use to points of reference for field of view twice and do all the processing for it twice which is literally doubling the work load for determinging what can be seen or not seen. Basically enabling a TPV that is limited to the same vision as FPV is so messy that other developers have tried and then decided to just stick with FPV.

The game is harder in FPV. To see a Zombie you have to actually peek out. To see a person you have to actually peek out. To land a chopper you have to practice because you can't just swing into TPV and free-look and see how level the ground is below you or if your rotor is going to hit that tree/bush/antenna. You can't scan OVER a wall in FPV and see that the zombie you hear behind that wall is actually walking away from the corner or towards it, you have to go to the corner and look around, possibly right into the view of that Zombie. You have to look over your shoulder while driving a car if you want to back up. You have to turn your head or turn around to see the zombie that just walked up right behind you. While in a turret on a vehicle you have to swing the whole turret around and can't magically know that there is a zombie attacking the vehicle from the right side while you are facing the left. You can't see over the line of the hill, or low laws , or lay flat behind a bush and see over it to watch a zombie cross in front of you while out of sight of the zombie. There is a blindspot that exists looking around in FPV that requires you to turn slightly to look behind you but in TPV it is gone. You have an awareness of a 3-4 meter area around your body that you do not have in real life as well as an awareness of what is down the hall, in that room, over that wall, over the edge of the building, behind that tree/bush/rock/car, and so on. The game is MUCH easier in TPV. I've played limited to FPV and the game becomes more difficult, you have to take more precautions around zombies and players and vehicles become something you need practice with to be good enough to try anything risky like landing on a small building top with obstacles.

We will be back, there are more bambi slayers to find and kill. I did have a good experience with one guy. I had a Lee Enfield and he looked empty handed. He yelled out, "Friendly! Friendly!" and I didn't shoot him. I put a bit of distance between us but saw him again and I didn't even get shot in the back for not KoSing him once he was armed.

I have to give you props and credit for being willing to try the 1st person servers. When I first started playing DayZ I stuck to 1st person. Why? Not because I didn't know where the 3rd person key was or was on 1st person only servers, but because the very first videos for DayZ, the ones that really pulled me in, were all 1st person. I spent that first month jumping when zombies walked around a corner into my face or jumping when one came up behind me. It was an awesome experience. However, my friends gravitated towards 3rd person servers because 3rd person is actually much easier. I am not talking about PVP either. On those servers you could quickly and easily scan for zombies all around you without loosing tactical knowledge. You could see a zombie on the other side of a tree and lay down and move left or right to keep it from seeing you, the whole time observing it so you could wait for it to wander away and then move past it. You could "peek" around corners without agroing anything, or over fences, and all that. It made you feel very secure and aware. It made me feel very comfortable. I hadn't found any vehicles that were drivable or repaired any during my early days of 1st person so it was a shock going back to 1st person and trying to drive and fly. It is ~hard~ but it adds a bunch of tension to it. When I can tell I have enough clearance to fit that car through the gap because I am looking from right behind it and can easily see it, trying to slip through a narrow gap has no tension. When I have to judge it while looking out the windshield, that is a very different experience and a few times I've judged wrong and lost a vehicle, usually at the worst possible moment. I love my one friend, but he is an "easy button" "loot whore" at heart. He will take on the toughest content on Insane difficult, but he will still find the easiest way to complete that "challenge" like glitching the NPC or using a loophole in the game to get past it. "Okay, so here is how we do this part for those that haven't completed part 1 of this quest series. You all die, then we carry your stones to the other side, then we Resurrect you. That way we can skip all of part 1." <-- actual solution for a game we played. He doesn't want me to move the server to 1st person. Why not? "Too hard." That was it, he was honest about his preference, 1st person was too hard and he didn't see a reason to make things harder. I play DayZ because it can be hard. Vanilla was a bit too hard for a little bit there and so I tried some other mods but I am back playing some Vanilla when I want a challenge. Unfortunately the majority of players play on TPV servers and since my friends and I are out there trying to bandit hunt we need to go where they go and that is populated servers. So I am STILL playing TPV but I still know in my heart my experiences in 1st person were much more visceral and sincere. I just jumped into some Battlefield 3 last night and the forced FPV made it instense. I got into a counter sniping battle with another sniper where we would move, acquire each other, exchange shots, break off, move and repeat. With 3rd person I would have just watched for his movement from cover(I had a slightly better area with a long wall and several other terrain pieces I could use while he had a couple places of cover with some open area between them) and popped up and shot him as he moved. As it was I had to risk my head to get glimpses of his movement so I didn't lose him and have him flank me. That made that battle intense... until I realized that dying just meant a 10 second run back into a position where I could cut him off with all my gear topped off. So in my informed opinion from 20+ years of computer gaming in games that were both 1st person and 3rd person there is a great deal more tension and suspense in the former that the second can not capture especially in the manner DayZ has it. If a person wants to play DayZ for PVP then FPV makes sense. If a person wants to play DayZ for a horror/survival sim then FPV makes sense, the less information you give a person the more their imagination works overtime this is why good horror movies hold off on showing the "monster" or what is going on until the pace of the movie picks up. For a game that combines elements of both, in my opinion, it makes sense to use the more limited FPV and force players to look around and risk themselves for that information they need to survive.

"Information in DayZ wiki is currently updated to DayZ patch: 1.7.5" That should tell you all you need to know.

That was painful to watch.

My friends and I decided to give Vanilla DayZ another go last night. We hopped on US 3480. Skat3rat has it right about spawn killers. I spawned in Solnichy a few times and was wondering if I was in Cherno from all the shots flying around the city. The first time I got out of town and was headed to meet up with my friend with only a can of soda and some sardines and I think a Jerry Can when someone decided wasting most of a clip killing a fresh spawn with no weapon or backpack was worth it. It was a full auto weapon too. I don't get it. My friend got up to one of the castles and heard a shot outside. A guy just outside went, "Friendly?" and then shot him as he was responding... and people wonder why the general rule of thumb is becoming KoS. Thank you Mr. Bandit though... you did walk right into my machete ambush even if I missed the first swing. You must have panicked at that point because I killed you in the courtyard where you had room to move and shoot me. You should have just took off running and gotten distance. We then geared up and went hunting for more bandits so until they gear up again(which they will probably do on an empty server or their own) there will be a couple less bambi killers shooting people with DMRs. Of course I give it all of 2 hours before they are back there sniping bambies again. It was a lot of fun. Things are a bit hard to come by in Vanilla but in many ways that makes it more interesting. Then again, I did have a guy beg me to kill him because he had no morphine and his leg was broken. He just wanted out of there and to spawn closer to Cherno/Elektro. Since he had the bandit skin.... I was willing to put him out of his misery. I've been there... broke my leg in a car crash with no morphine WAY up North a month back. Needed a wheel but no way I could shoot every zombie between me and an industrial spawn, or sneak past them all, If I could fix the car I could get somewhere I could HOPE and find Morphine and maybe get to it, but there was very little chance... then a zombie happened to wander by and help me along... Sigh.