mercules

Well, only children take that stance. I've posted polls to other forums and then had to go with what it told me.

We are not talking about skill level. TPV is easier. You get more information from less exposure. <- That makes it easier. It sort of is. At least for many of us. "Hey guys lets hop on this server. It has a few people so we could run into someone, I like that danger, but not too many people. Ping is good from here, how about you guys?" "Yeah, that looks go... oh wait, it's 3rd person." Actually, it was the DESIGNER of the game that used the word Exploit. In a video game "exploit" means using something in a way it wasn't intended to gain an advantage. When the Designer tells you something is an exploit he means it is being used as an exploit. People are using TPV exploits, the designer just told us that. So that means it is AN EXPLOIT. I am going to use that word again, because I don't think you get the Dean Hall called that an exploit and he defines what is an is not intended in his game. Exploit. It's actually more of a square. Across we have FPV on the left and TPV on the right. Up we have PvP and down we have non-PvP. I would be far left and below the middle line. I agree the PvP aspect of the game adds a lot of tension to it, but I don't go looking for trouble. When I do go looking for trouble I tend to hunt bandits. I prefer FPV because it makes zombies more menacing and it cuts out the TPV exploits Dean Hall mentioned. No they really don't. It's like my friend who thinks going into a dungeon in DDO without a healer or below 6 players(the content is built to challenge 4-5 players) is silly. TPV is easier to play in and avoid zombies. Now, that is ignoring those that get sick in FPV for some bizarre reason not related to the things they can disable. Oh, I do. My point was more that I was saying I could get geared fairly easily in TPV and while I might find something to do, others go, "Well, I guess I'll go find someone to kill." This would be why I don't play CoD, despite the claims that because I support FPV I must be a FPS CoD fan.

Well, yeah, it's logical. When you hear gunfire you try and mark the direction and likely move away from it. I do that. Why? because to scan for who is firing I have to have my HEAD OUT THERE where it can be shot and look around and I can't be sure they are not facing my direction with their gun already up. On a TPV server I just stand on the opposite side of cover from the direction I heard shots from and look around until I spot the person since they can't see me or shoot me. You can't do that in FPV and it is dangerous to try and get eyes on them if you have a safe exit route.

I explained my reasoning above, but a short form of it. TPV makes zombies less dangerous since unlike other players they can't exploit it. Zombies and loot spawn from the same area so less dangerous zombies mean more accessible loot. While some people would PvP for no reason at all, some players wouldn't except they get bored. Either camp usually needs to gear up before they can PvP and start dropping into the KoS ideology. Since it is so easy to loot, and it takes less time with TPV it actually leads to people being ready to PvP sooner after dying and leads to "I have all the stuff I need, I don't need another tent full of beans... I guess I'll go try and shoot some people." It's not the cause but I think it helps lead there.

I think you mean: DayZ - Guardian Angel: Guide a person through the deadly and dangerous zombie apocalypse from a high level view. Guide them away from danger they can't see by looking over fences and around trees for them so that they don't stumble into trouble and die. Keep your charge alive as long as you can and feel good about it as you use your supernatural powers to intercede on their behalf. and DayZ - Stand Alone: Experience a zombie apocalypse from the unique perspective of someone actually in it. You are the survivor and experience what they experience from behind their eyes.

Actually, if TPV was not allowed or available my friend who plays Borderlands with me would not insist on TPV. I've stated before, he is a loot whore and the type of person who eploits every advantage a game allows him. So trying to explain to him the value of a horror sim that is limits what he can do is about as pointless as trying to explain it to you. He looks at the game and goes, "Well, 3rd person is allowed, so why are we not on a TPV server?" Hell, we was wiling to play on a Nametag server because then it would be harder for people to hide and ambush him since he only cares about filling a Ural/tent up with cool guns and stuff. I could just not play with my friend but games are our social outlet since our group of friends has gone in different directions and lives in different locations. So he compromises by playing DayZ which is not his style of game and we compromise by not forcing him to play on a FPV server when he plays with us. Just like when I play DDO with him he compromises in going into dungeons short handed without classes X, Y, and Z because I like to make them challenges when his preferred style of play is memorizing the dungeon and bringing exactly what you need so you can get it done in 5 minutes instead of messing around for a half hour in it exploring and fighting it all. So yes, since someone gave him an out to play in an easier mode, he is going to want to take it and have hard feelings if I say I don't. I am about ready to just flip my server over and make him deal with it but I just got them back into playing DayZ. No, ~I~ play on FPV servers. I have a friend who refuses to. One bad apple spoils the rest. Since he won't, ~we~ can't... when we play with him. I hopped on a seriously populated server because our group had decided as a group to see if we could find those who typically snipe bambi players. The other night we hunted down and killed three bandits, last night we were less successful. We were actually attempting to make Electro/Cherno a bit safer for new spawns in fact I wasn't shooting people who were not shooting at me, my friends, or that didn't have a bandit skin already. Yes, I have a friend who smokes cigarettes and I can't make him stop. If I want to hang out with him I have to put up with him occasionally taking a "smoke break" or wanting to sit outside in the heat so he can smoke while we have a beer, or whatever. I also have a friend who doesn't want to play TPV because it is "harder" and you know what, like Borderlands if TPV never was an option he wouldn't bitch about it. He plays Borderlands just fine. Just like the smoker he has a flaw and because he is my friend I tease and cajole him about it, but in the end I still care about him and want to spend time with him and give in. You are not my friend I could care less about your comfort level while playing.I still believe FPV is a better choice for a simulator that otherwise tries to be realistic and have systems in to simulate being a person in a zombie apocalypse.

I am certain it doesn't matter if the zeds can knock me down, infect me, or do more damage IF THEY NEVER GET A CHANCE TO HIT ME BECAUSE I CAN SEE THEM COMING FROM PERFECTLY SAFE COVER AND AVOID THEM COMPLETELY. I was playing Vanilla DayZ last night, BTW. 3rd person server because there were 60 people there and my friend who doesn't like 1st wanted to play with us. I can tell you I was never hit by a zombie although I died last night.

No it doesn't, in fact the mixing views is probably WHY both are rather crappily designed. It doesn't do either well, or at least not as well as other games that stick to one or the other do them. The main aspect or features of the engine, per BI are: Main Features *Unrivaled realism *ArmA II models real world ballistics & round deflection, materials penetration, a realtime day/night cycle and dynamic wind, weather and environmental effects. *A player-driven story *Explore multiple paths through a branching campaign. Your actions have consequences! *Seemlessly blends FPS, RTS and RPG elements *Fight first-hand or control multiple squads. Manage resources and watch your units develop. *Dynamic conversation system *Talk to teammates, allies and civilians. Win hearts and minds. *Unique AI *No scripts, no pre defined pathways. AI adapt and use the open environment on the fly. *60 weapons, 120 air, land and sea vehicles *A comprehensive collection of modern military materiel! *The most rewarding multiplayer environment *Fully cooperative campaign, massive PvP battles over air, land and sea. Fight friends online for control of 225sq kilometers of real-world terrain! *Intuituive, powerful mission editor *Design your own mission in minutes or create intricate and unique campaigns.I struck out the stuff that doesn't seem to apply to DayZ and that leaves us with realism and realistic ballistics, a combination of FPS, RTS, and RPG, weapons and vehicles, and a good multiplayer environment. This isn't a "Guardian Angel looking over my shoulder able to see trouble I can't." simulation, this is a "Zombie Survival" simulation, and that is the main reason it should be restricted to FPV OR the Guardian Angel aspect of TPV should be removed from that view where you can see things over, under, and around objects you couldn't through your avatar's eyes.

Doesn't matter what you chose it FOR... it is easier and many other people do choose it for that exact reason. Anecdotal, but my friend has said as much. Look, I get the feeling you really don't understand FPV. Maybe I am just a bit more skilled or something similar, but when I get access to TPV and the extra view it grants me, I can move through a loot spawn area at basically a full run. When I play restricted to FPV doing the same thing will end up with me running into trouble I easily avoided in TPV. Maybe I, a proponent of FPV, use TPV better than you do but it makes it ~way~ to easy to run through a town and loot.

Agreed, but you have to admit that FPS is an aspect of it. It has FPS inside it's bubble. Not all of DayZ is FPS but the way you interact with the environment is very FPS. On top of that it is built from a FPS engine. It is so much more than a FPS but you can't say there isn't a FPS component to the game.

Hey! Keep reading the next line after the red where I just said what you responded with. Where is there a loot spawn point where there is not a zombie spawn point nearby? Nowhere in Vanilla. Zombies slow down looting. How much is based on their difficulty. Players do not slow down looting since not every spawn point will have a player right there. So the determining factor is zombies. Players can exploit the TPV zombies can not. So TPV makes looting easier and faster because it makes zombies less dangerous. Now, it does make Cherno and Electro more dangerous because of players using the TPV to snipe bambies in those areas, but I can gear up quickly from deerstands/industrial areas/barns.

I figure you have no clue what I am. Yes, I like FPS games but I also like sim games and RPGs. I like Skyrim and set goals for myself when I play like, "Not going to use spells." or "ONLY use spells, no weapons/armor". What you not get... is that we can play on a FPV server BUT some of us actually play with friends we have in real life. When their time is limited some of them chose to go the easiest route possible which happens to be the route you have chosen which means when I want to play with them I have to play on easy mode with other people playing on easy mode and not on a FPV only server. Given the option some people will take the easiest route even if it might not be good for them in the long run, see "Hamburger Helper". Look, I know everyone has their own comfort level with difficulty in games. Some people even use outside tools to make their game easier like trainers/hacks because they don't actually like to play the game as designed. Here we have a chance to let the devs know what challenge level we want. I want hard, you want slightly less hard, some others want hard but with the parts of TPV that make it slightly less hard removed. We all need to speak up and hope they can see what we want since we will be their players.

I think you missed the point. Zeds are not a huge risk in either mode but they are even less of a risk in TPV. They are annoying and can be occasionally dangerous in FPV but are a JOKE in TPV when I can look over a fence and see which way the Zed I heard is facing, realize it isn't looking my way, then crouch run past it's back OR look over, see it is looking at the end of the wall I am running towards and hit the brakes so I don't agro it. In FPV I have to go to the corner and peek or take my chances knowing I heard a zombie and hoping it is looking the other way. Style A: Slightly dangerous but can be dealt with once you get used to them. Style B: Not dangerous at all because they can't see me while I can see them. That is a TPV issue. It turns zombies into a non-threat. Once that happens looting becomes simple because looting always happens where zombies are, true story. If loot can spawn in an area, so can zombies. Remove the danger from zombies and the loot is easier to get. TPV removes the danger of zombies because THEY CAN'T USE IT. ;)

Or, they could simply increase the chances of getting cold. Some other mods it comes into play, but we play where the seasons are locked into late summer/early fall. Play on a server with snow up in the mountains and you will see how quickly the heat thing matters. Play on Breaking Point with the Aircraft Carrier and Oil Rig which are out on the water and you will see that Heat Packs can come in handy. I had my helicopter blow up while looting the aircraft carrier once because of a server restart and bug from the AC and vehicles on it. I was trapped out there and had to keep myself warm. No friends with helicopters on so I was just lucky I had picked up a couple heat packs which let me stay active and alive long enough to ambush someone who flew out there.

While I think some people just enjoy finding and killing people in the game or doing actions like "griefing" them I believe that perfectly reasonable people who otherwise wouldn't go hunting for people fall into that behaviour when they have done everything else. Lets face it. AI can only be so good. Eventually you figure out how to deal with zombies and they become easier and you desire more of a challenge. Some people decide they want to fix up a vehicle and see if they can find a good place to hide it. Others go looking for some particular piece of gear. Then eventually those tasks are completed too or they don't want to do those sort of things so they look for challenge. The most challenging thing in most games is facing off against another player. So they go looking for PvP. With that attitude, that you are going to go find someone and shoot them, you are already set to KoS. When people get KoS too often they too move in that direction. So if boredom is a major cause of KoS, and I think it is. Then how can we avoid boredom. The obvious thing is give the players more to do like base building, customizing weapons, and such. The SA goes a step further and makes it possible you will ruin the gear you are trying to take off a person when you shoot them, but that obviously doesn't matter to the person who is bored and all geared up already. So now you have to slow down the acquisition of gear. The longer that task takes the longer it takes to get to the bored state where you will shoot someone just to do it. In SA they are making looting take a bit longer. No more piles you can run past and know you want or don't want. There are vehicle doors to open, cupboards, and under the bed to check. That will help. However, TPV makes it so easy for me to avoid zombies I can simply zig zag through town and loot at will. It makes the game easier for me. That leads me to the boredom route quicker and leaves less gap between new spawn and "I have everything I need... now what?" I think the SA will be doing other things to combat that already, but removing the aspects of 3rd person that make it into "easy mode" for avoiding danger would be yet another tool to combat boredom from having everything you need.

I have to admit. I hadn't really thought about yet. While Zombie agro will still be a pretty good indicator of survivor presence but zombies just being around won't be. Because of that stealth is actually a good idea from the perspective of avoiding snipers. Wandering zombies will also help deal with snipers because they can never be sure when a zed from a town over will decide to just keep walking in a direction and end up near enough to hear their shot. Right now there are places where no zombie spawns close enough to hear your shots letting snipers just sit and pop off a shot every few minutes if they want.

Get in a boat or be forced to sit still in the rain lying on the ground because there is a sniper you haven't spotted yet sitting out there with a good view of your position that seems to have lost you. The times are rare(unless you move around by boat) but it does happen.

Um? WHAT? I HATE KoS. FPV discourages KoS to some extent without penalizing it. Let me explain my logic in this. TPV lets me quickly loot a city or area. I can avoid most if not all the zeds easily by looking over and around things. I can check a full building from a single doorway without exposing myself to view or having to swing far one way or the other out in the open. I can "gear up" on a TPV server fairly quickly. Zombies barely slow me down. On a FPV server I tend to sweep more carefully and move more carefully because I can't get a quick overview with a single camera sweep. Once geared up... what is there to do for most people? Well, a lot of them like to go mess with others once they are bored shooting zombies and finding good gear. Now bear in mind, EVERY time you die that gear up process is likely done again and if you can do it very quickly well, then you are off looking for something to do like PvP where as if it takes a bit long in FPV then you are pushing back that PvP period each time they die. I believe TPV making the game so simple is what is creating the boredom that leads to sniping and other PvP activities. It is not the sole cause, but I think it contributes. They will make money even if they pulled TPV completely. They have a unique property here, that will appeal to certain people and will grow if they don't water it down to much and make it just another "First Person Shooter... with zombies." or "Mass Effect... with zombies"

Yeah, and offset cam might be better. I guess I was considering more the comments that TPV gives people a better feel for where their character is in relation to doorways, objects, and such and thought being directly behind would meet that need better. I could see a person who bumps into things in FPV also bumping into things on the "off" side of their body where the offset cam isn't. Also an offset cam that low can obscure part of your vision and be taken advantage of by others. "Camera is on the right shoulder so always approach from the left if you can, they have a blindspot to the left." I believe the statement was that a soft launch of fewer players might actually be a good thing. Also, notice there are people who play on 3rd person servers simply because there is a population on 3rd person servers or in my case because they have friends who like their TPV comfort zone and they would rather play with their friends that play FPV alone. Authentic means something that is "not false" or in other words "real". I believe DayZ was originally advertised as an "authentic vision of a zombie apocalypse". We could also look at it as a simulation which is a system that tries to recreate something in another fashion. In this case since none of us can(or probably wants to) be involved in a zombie apocalypse this game simulations in a realistic fashion so we can feel what it would be like to be in that crisis. We are simulating reality with one little tweak, there are infected. DayZ is all about being authentic and thus realisitic. I disagree. I feel much less fear in third person. 1. In TPV that guy(gal) on the screen is in terrible danger. 2. I can see some zombies over the wall and direct him(her) to wander the other direction when they would have blindly walked right into those zombies without me being their guardian angle and looking over the wall for them. 3. In FPV I don't think about the avatar, I look out and see the zombies and terrain from the perspective of a person IN that situation and make mistakes like looking around a corner into the face of a zombie I had thought was down further based on the sounds I heard. Actually there are some VERY good businesses that cater to "minorites". Okay, admit Walmart is a huge retailer that makes tons of money(usually through exploiting their workforce, but I digress) and offers up a huge variety of items in their stores. The issue is they only have #10 screws and only in packages of 20. When you need 2 #7 screws for a project you don't go to Walmart, you go to the corner hardware store which could try and cater to the masses and sell t-shirts, DVDs, dishes, shoes, cans of beans, and more. However they make their money by offering what walmart doesn't because they can't compete with walmart on the variety they focus and continue to make money by selling all the things walmart can't because of its generalness. It is a niche store. So is the cigar shop which has focussed on a population that smokes cigars. Walmart can't compete with them when it comes to cigars. Games are the same way. Why compete with WoW and CoD when you can create something that offers an experiance those others don't? Sure they will draw in masses of people but you can build a loyal following who will continue to buy and convert people by building a game that DOESN'T cater to the, "This isn't like CoD, make it more like CoD." crowd. I find some irony that FPV people keep getting compared to the CoD crowds since I think it is the opposite. Remove TPV and you lose some of those people who want to turn it into a KoS Sniper Fest where they can camp a rooftop in safety and shoot people who's backs are turned. I just wanted to add that it isn't always the PLAYERS adding the danger to camping cities on FPV servers. The fact that you can't see Zombies around walls and over corners makes them more difficult to avoid and zombie agro gives away your position, not to mention they could actually kill you themselves either with an infection, broken bone, being knocked unconscious, and such.

I've had my own unique suggestion already. Put the point of view directly behind the person's head in line with their eyes about 20cm back and make them translucent. Now you can see your body and use it as a reference if that is why you prefer 3rd person but you can't really look around corners or over walls with it.

Or... maybe they have actually read a bit about various diseases and while not a virologist know a bit about a few of them. Maybe they have actually wondered what it would take to create a "zombie" from a person and if there was something in nature already that could bring about a state that makes a person something like a what we consider a zombie and so gone and researched a bunch. Maybe those people are now sharing what they have found and are slightly insulted that someone who flounces in skipping and going, "LOL! it's all pretend" like you like to do. No kidding it doesn't exist but there are real life things that can make people similar to zombies. We are not just pulling ideas out of the air and stating, "It's magic it doesn't matter why." we are looking at real life diseases that create certain reactions and behaviours in people and point out how similar those are to zombies.

1. They are highly agitated which brings them closer to the point where they will kick in adrenaline 2. While not mindless they tend to ignore stimuli such as pain and such which means that while that adrenaline is taking it's toll and they are torquing their muscles so much they might even pop joints out of socket and such, they don't care while we would. 3. Yeah, our adrenaline is going to be going which would allow us to ignore certain levels of pain and injury, but they seem to ignore anything that isn't fatal or crippling which means they can make better use of their adrenaline. They are not going to notice shin splints, a charlie horse, or care that they just broke their knuckles from hitting someone so hard.

I like to have a water source nearby, even if I have to kill/avoid a couple zombies to get to it. The next thing is a deer stand, that way if I don't get all the incidentals after a respawn I can just keep checking in on the deer stand whenever I get near camp and maybe pick up matches/map/compass/antibiotics/morphine/water bottles.

No, I agree. The knockdown that zombies have gotten and will have in SA as well goes a step in the right direction. Having to get back up after being knocked prone lets a whole HORDE of zombies catch up to you so you are best only ever having a couple chase you at once. I like that they backed it off a bit so you don't get Perma-tripped, but it still stinks when you have 10 zombies chasing you and the one you just passed trips you with a hit. I think them not moving slower through buildings and the other ideas already presented for the SA might help make them more of a menace as well.

Can we get over the, "TPV is not an exploit". When the dev tells you it is used as an exploit in their game you know it is being used to do things they didn't intend, aka, an exploit. I think some of the approaches they are taking might take the worst of the issues that 3rd presents while allowing those who refuse to accept 1st person as viable to have their comfort zone. I still think it will make avoiding zombies to easy which detracts from the game play, but not as easy as it was which is good. Look, if we ignore the whole "You just want to turn DayZ into CoD." which believe me I do not, I just personally think that the intensity of the PVE would be increased by playing in FPV. I know that is case for myself and I have enjoyed DayZ much more while playing in 1st person. I just want to bring that experience and intensity to others who I think are cheating themselves of it. I also enjoy it more but am FORCED to play 3rd by server populations. Yes I have my own server and I would set it to 1st person only in a heartbeat if I didn't have to consider the fact that 2 out of the 4 people I want to play with are so used to TPV that they don't like to play in 1st anymore, that and every OTHER server we end up going to is 3rd so why not learn the exploits so we can use them too?