Vicco

I agree with both sides in this argument, but disagree too. Agree that KOS is natural to PvP. Disagree it has much to do with gear. Players kill to kill. Anybody relying on "human nature" alone to reduce KOS is in a fantasy world. It will take coded game mechanics. Here's my big disagreement about KOS in the SA. That's a new game. New design. You can reduce it with ammo rarity. You can reduce it with a strict humanity system, and skins. You can reduce it by reducing PvP damage done to players - by any weapon. If it takes 5 rounds to knock somebody out and 10 to kill them, that will reduce KOS. No question about it. So don't say greatly reducing KOS can't be done. Massive zed swarming to shooters will reduce it. A half hour respawn delay for low humanity will reduce it. You can also ELIMINATE KOS by turning off PvP damage entirely. If the game really provides a "survival" aspect, with good exploration possibilities, it will support servers with PvP turned off, and they will be populated. My favorites for balancing KOS in a PvP game is a mix and match. Bullet damage reduction for PvP. Maybe no one-shot kills, and a head-shot to knock out. Safe zones with no PvP, and alternate hours being PvP/no PvP. Lots of tactical possibilities there. Teaming with friendlies in safe zones, or in non-PvP hours. Watching the changeover clock turn to PvP as you decide whether to log, hole up somewhere, or for the KOSer, whether to stalk that guy because your gun will soon be operative against him. Could be fun. KOS wouldn't be so easy. Let's face it, the true non-KOS guy is usually a sitting duck. This gives him more defense options. There are plenty of ways to do it, so I don't think a KOS guy should be so sure it's going to be easy in the SA. Frankly, I'm more interested in map size, survival elements and exploration possibilities. But in a PvP game there's going to be KOS. Just saying there are ways to control it.

I'm still thinking about this, and admit I have no answer to what the SA should "be." I'm pretty ignorant about the SA, except from what Rocket has shown and said in demos. I've tried to stand back and see Dayz for what it "is." Not what anybody thinks it should "be." Here's my view of the Dayz mod. It's a multi-player KOS PvP game. Sure, there's "lone wolves." And those who want to "talk" to other players. Zeds have been made more and less dangerous. None of that changed much of anything. The history of how it evolved with the player base doesn't matter. It's a multi-player KOS PvP game. That's the bottom line. You like that or don't like that. Do you want the SA to be a multi-player KOS PvP game? What will prevent the SA from being a multi-player KOS PvP game? I have my own ideas, but I'll hold them - don't have my fire suit handy right now. Pretty sure you guys have plenty of answers, and I'm interested about what you think.

I've only played public vanilla, aside from my own vanilla server. When they are populated my experience is it's mostly PvP/KOS. There are occasions where true "friendlies" are encountered. I'll take your word about non-vanilla, but vanilla has plenty of weapons to go killing with. You say "reasons." I call it game "rules" or "mechanics." All games have them, and DayZ is no exception. If the game works, the "reasons" are accepted by the players. In DayZ I can't jump 10 feet off a roof without serious damage. In BL2 you can jump 300 feet off a cliff with no harm done. Both are unrealistic, but it doesn't matter - because the games work. Some people don't like either game. :) "Safe" areas where friendly fire is turned off is a pretty common game mechanic. Fairly common IRL too. Nobody would be forced to go there. It's realistic. If weapons were rendered useless every other hour, it wouldn't be realistic, but nobody is forced to play any hour. This is all assuming that SA can keep players busy surviving, crafting and exploring. But killers are still gonna kill. I'm just batting around ideas that "might" keep the most people happy - and sell more games. What do you think is the lowest common denominator? I've concluded it's just PvP. The purpose of PvP is to kill the other player. KOS flows naturally from that. So if the SA is meant to attract both PvP and non-PvP players, it needs to satisfy both types of players. The 2 ideas I mentioned could meet that mark, or maybe not. Just flapping my lips.

I didn't think so at first, but once I played enough, the only thing of interest was PvP. Only KOS bandits, but that doesn't stop others KOSing me. I'll agree you don't have to play PvP or KOS. But that's how it usually works out. I'm thinking the SA will go the same way, but have more non-PvP activities/exploring to delay that. Thing is, many of the DayZ base players will go into SA with a PvP/KOS mentality. First thing they'll do is go hunting other players. The others who don't think that will happen will be raging/quitting. That's what happened with DayZ. Early. So I was wondering what actual game "mechanic" might be used to prevent that. Maybe none, but I think Rocket is working on that "balance." Your ammo idea is one idea, but it would make sense for a KOSer to spend a round on a head shot to maybe pick up 5 rounds from your corpse. Or to backstab you with his axe. PvP/KOS players only play to kill other players. Chasing down somebody with an axe works for them. I'm not anti-PvP or anti-KOS, but many just won't play the game if that's the main purpose of the game. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think PvP/KOS made DayZ, but also limited its appeal. Personally, I would have no problem with "safe zones." Even having "friendly fire" turned off every other hour. That could be interesting. Offers many tactical possibilities for PvP'ers and respite for those who want to avoid PvP. I'll never buy any "breaks immersion" argument. I'm always immersed in a game, otherwise I don't play it. Still know I'm playing a game and manage to know what the time is. Looks to me like the SA has very little to do with DayZ anyway, except both have zeds and a PvP element.

Never played Epoch, and wasn't talking about SA. Just addressing KOS vis a vis player communications.

Sounds good. Another idea is a "safe zone." The game turns off weapons. Players could talk/trade there with friends/strangers. Of course there would have to be many ways in and out, to avoid ambush. Could be you could choose to spawn in there, and to get out would be a random spawn.

You have a good handle on this. I agree with what you've said, except from what you've said, you still KOS. Unless it's only bandits you KOS, you're a KOS'er. Right? Alright, here's my view. Bandits KOSing is natural. They're bandits. Survivors/heroes KOSing bandits is natural. They're killing bandits. The humanity/bandit skin is the first key to "balance." Seems to work pretty well on public servers. A bandit skin can do his thing, and others can do theirs. They hunt each other. A bandit can't trust another bandit, a survivor/hero should simply KOS bandits, and be able trust a non-bandit. Sometimes he'll get burned, but the burner will get a bandit skin right then, or soon after. The humanity/bandit skin mechanic is very important. As our friend KOS has said, he'll jump on private servers dressed as a survivor/hero so he can KOS unsuspecting survivor/heroes. Even change keys with a hero pal. I don't see that as a big problem, and don't know how it should be addressed. Seems to be the nature of private servers. Now here's something that's a bit counter-intuitive. Runs against the OP. What's the main excuse for KOS? "Gear." To keep it, or get it. Not actually getting killed, or respawning on the coast. It's gear. What kind of gear? Not beans. Not bandages. Not Coke. Guns and ammo. If guns and ammo were common coastal spawns, all these excuses about "Why I KOS" would evaporate. The common killers and the weak would be exposed. Guns are pretty useless against zed swarms. But very useful against other players, and the primary KOS excuse. Of course those bandits who play to kill - like KOS - don't need excuses. They are honest about their motives. I respect them more than the KOS excuse-makers. Now I'm not saying spawning more guns would reduce KOS. Might just make more bandits. Or maybe not. Seems they eliminated a Makarov in the loadout because new spawns were KOSing each other on the beach. So there might be no answer to KOS. I'd just like to see the KOS gear excuse disappear, and see what happens then.

Seeing his skill in avoiding zeds, his mention of avoiding Cherno, and mention of cat and mouse, he probably looks at you as a mouse. Seems right now he has you trapped in Cherno, getting killed over and over again. If you leave Cherno and enter his territory, you probably won't see him. He'll probably see you. Maybe if you have a bandit skin you'll never know what hit you. Maybe he'll let you live. Maybe either way will be a lot of fun to him. Maybe you stay in Cherno. That's all guessing, and a lot of maybes. Endless ways to play this game.

Very nice moves. I would expect to be shot in Cherno doing that - but maybe you could avoid that.

Don't know anything about LAN, but DayZ needs server files to run. Which basically means you need your own server, or have to join an outside server. Any PC with decent specs can be a server. I use DayZCC as my server on my home PC. It's free. My partner connects via the internet. Don't know if we could play together at my house. Probably. Have 2 PC's, and I think the router gives each a different IP. Might slow things down, might not. I'd say your best bet is stick with internet connection. So you probably need a router to have different IP's from your house. You could play side by side that way by joining an outside server, or just set up your own server. It's not hard to set up your own server with DayZCC. Just a password makes it a single-player game if you want that. I've seen this LAN question before, but no good answers. The method I mentioned should get you set up pretty fast.

I'm about to stop playing DayZ, mainly because I've been all over the map, and it's getting old. I avoid PvP. If that was my main game I don't think I'd be bored. Plenty of action for PvP with the current map size. To me the DayZ exterior environment is beautifully rendered. Feels real, and I enjoy running in it. That's the biggest draw to DayZ for me. What it's mainly lacking is brooks, streams, rivers, and more varied vegetation types. Terrain is a bit unrealistic because you can bee-line from any point to any point. The terrain is also pretty much the same. Then of course enterable buildings are sadly lacking. Anyway, every time I think of a game map I think of Morrowind, or Gothic 2. I don't want to argue about what game has the biggest map. Just say those games were my most-played games because I really enjoyed exploring them. That's all aside from other game elements. DayZ is Dayz, and I haven't spent much time looking at what the SA will offer. Here's what I would shoot for in game design if I was boss Rocket. Much larger map than Chernarus, with different terrain types. Hilly, plains, volcanic, mountainous, rocky, forested. When I say "large map" I mean large enough that a lone wolf or group playing on a 100 player server could reasonably expect their distant camp to go undiscovered by others for weeks. What is "distant?" Maybe 20-50km from PvP cities, military bases, etc. BIG map. IOW, somebody who wanted pure PvE only could "almost" have that. Of course a bandit might stumble upon their camp, but map size should be large enough to make it unlikely. Besides the current food animals, dangerous wild AI animal spawning would be very appropriate. Yeah, it gets a little "complicated." Here's something simple to more than offset that. No motorized vehicles at all. Those are totally unrealistic in a DayZ survivor type game. Gasoline wasn't even realistic in Mad Max. It was flying around in choppers that made the Chernarus map get old for me faster than it should have. Won't get into crafting and all the other candy. Whatever can be realistically done for that element is fine, as long as it doesn't steal the resources from map size and terrain. Essentially, the game would provide PvP and PvE players plenty of opportunity to do what they want, and avoid each other if they wish to. That means decent loot spawns in the wilderness or small villages. That means the usual military and "rich" spawning cities will still be the PvP hotspots. That means exploring and long treks. It means that the opportunity for more "player types" opens up. No in-game map. Compass only. Perhaps a crude in-game map, ala what explorers Lewis and Clark dealt with. Don't know if all of this is possible in a multi-player game, but I think it would be very popular. And make a lot of money. So somebody should shoot for it. 'Tis but a dream.

Sounds good. Real good. And more bicycles could cut down travel time a bit. Since they move faster on roads, they would also provide you with ambush opportunities. Anything that add to "realism" is good to me.

Too much planning to keep vehicles and tents. DayZ doesn't like plans. Consider yourself lucky you got all those vehicles on a public server. Besides that, I don't trust admins. They can see everything, and too many are kids with no ethics. I started playing public servers just as "the infection" was introduced. Spent a week server jumping, looking for anti-biotics. Barely even got geared up. Never found anti-biotics. Repeatedly had to find my corpse to get just a knife or box of matches from it. They were hard earned. Tense, because it could be a long run, and the server might restart. Finally got kitted up except for an axe. Running on the Electro docks I was lifted up, thrown down and killed. That bug has never been fixed. Running back from a Balota spawn, the server restarted. Corpse gone. Started all over, this time with my partner. Same deal, but between us we managed to build a full kit. No silenced gun though. And no anti-biotics. He wanted to stop, and play on my server where we could control infection. Tired of getting infected. I pushed him to stick it out for the challenge. We finally got well geared. How? Ran into a couple standing dead guys in the Berezino grocery, as my partner was almost dead from infection, and passing out every half minute. They had the works. Probably dupers. A few days later we were out of the 5 or 6 anti-biotics we took from the bodies. All we were doing was looking for anti-biotics. Getting pretty boring. I got hammered dead by zeds in Stary. Spawned by Cherno and ran back while he guarded my corpse. Nice nighttime run in the woods. Middle of nowhere. Halfway back to Stary he says a hero spawned by him, then disappeared. A minute later I got puppetted and brought to the "hero" 30 yards back. He had zeds with him that started wailing on me, and I alt-F4ed. Told my partner to do the same. Lost half our gear. We met up on a different server, divvied up the gear, and called it a night. With the current infection mechanic, one time getting hacked was enough for me. Haven't been back to public servers since. We might go back if the infection is modified. Let's hope hackers and killing bugs get dealt with too. Life is short, and DayZ life is too short to even measure.

Wasn't talking about streamers. Talking about gamers. Seldom even watch streamers. Don't like their faces plastered on the screen. Terrible immersion. :) Aside from that I've watched many, many YT vids. It's what got me interested in DayZ. Early ones too. Most were 3P. Might well be why I find 3P perfectly natural, though I've also played 1P. But DayZ has had many lives in a short time. Good vids in 1P are pretty rare. A couple guys here have made some decent ones. Applejax and KOS. Of course that's all personal opinion. And there might be others. Seems most of the best players/videographers prefer 3P. Even though they are expert first-person shooters in other games. Even good players making bad vids are nearly always using 3P. The only reasons I can think of vidmakers using 3P is it makes DayZ vids easier on the eyes, or they just like it. As far as "game design" what works is what works. YT vids and server populations are the best measures I've seen. We'll always argue about it. It's all good.

Baloney. This thread is full of that, referenced by "hardcore," "easy," "difficult," "cheating" and "exploit." Many references to 1P being "the real hard core DayZ players." It's rife with arrogant supporters of 1P puffing their feathers, and degrading others. None of which holds any water, since the best players making YT vids never complain about 3P, or it giving anybody unequal advantage. They just play the effing game. IMO any complaining about "exploits" is crybabying. The same people will kill and be killed whatever the view. Good players survive, lesser players die. Seconding Ken Bean's point about player interaction, 3P allows players to often start such interactions in safety. When a player just stumbles upon another in 1P, the usual reaction from both is not to talk, but to fire. That does NOT help player interaction. Of course really good shooting/moving players can dance, talk and shoot all at the same time. I highly doubt any of the 1P advocates here are among them, since they can't seem to even master staying out of the sights of rooftop campers. They continually cry about somebody getting the drop on them. 1P won't help them. Not one bit. It's a trash argument. Mister Bean already explained his mention of role playing, which is obvious and shouldn't even need repeating. All that remains is "immersion." I'm just as immersed in 3P as in 1P. It's a different view of the same world. Whining about immersion in 3P DayZ reveals a failure of imagination. I was on the fence when this thread started. If 1P body awareness and tunnel vision were fixed, I figured 1P would be fine. I play plenty of 1P games. 1P is badly wrought in DayZ. I've come to realize that DayZ is a 3P game. Proof? Patently solipsistic 1P arguments on this forum, my experience, many thousands of YT vids, and players' preference for 3P servers. That's all I need. Go Rocket. I'm sure if you release a 1P only SA, I will play it. But the whining ain't gonna stop. Ever.

Don't know if he was the worst, but probably had the shortest life. Shosho classic, at 19:00.

Ain't it the truth.

In that many-windowed environment you "may" have a valid point. It also seems it would only be designed that way as a PvP hotspot. 1P campers will also look out those windows with a lean. Good leaning is very hard to detect. The current mod has very limited camping spots for 3P peekers, and most - if not all - are known by moderately seasoned players, and neutralized by constantly moving. A camper has to be very accurate when shooting at a moving and aware player. Most aren't, and they give away their position, where they have trapped themselves. Then the advantage swings. Outside of camping, which will always be with us, the aware player who spots the other guy first will always have the advantage, all else equal. He won't need 3P at all to get within kill range of the other guy. What puzzles me is this. Good players making DayZ YouTube vids in 3P never complain about 3P. Or about campers. They kill them. By using their awareness, movement and good shooting skills. When they fail and get killed themselves, they blame themselves. Though I don't claim to be at their level, I have the same attitude. Won't hear me complaining about 3P peekers. It's just part of DayZ to me. If SA is 1P only, it won't bother me at all - if the game works. Thanks for that full Rocket 1P/3P interview. Hadn't seen that. I probably interpreted it differently than you. My interpretation is that Rocket was simply "tolerating" the interviewer's questions, and making political "concessions" about 3P. I really thinks he likes it as is, and perhaps views those wanting 1P only as "crybabies." Probably sees it as a simple "camping" issue, which can't be eliminated, and is always an element in PvP. But that's my interpretation, and only Rocket knows. He appears politically skillful. I note he made absolutely no guarantees about SA and 3P. His main bending point was tweaking the prone view. Also noted he doesn't think people who prefer 3P do so to "cheat." I don't so either, and if a fluid method could be found to solve the so-called "exploits" in 3P, you will find only a few complaining about that. I think the SA is in good hands. And the current mod is fine, except for infection/AB balance.

Looks like you don't have much time on ladders, or playing hide and seek. Both 1P and 3P are flawed and unrealistic in DayZ, and in every other game I've played. That's one reason I find the argument that 1P is more "realistic" ludicrous. Same with accusations of "cheating." Ridiculous. It's a game. Bottom line, you like it or don't like it. What you like or what I like means what? Absolutely nothing. Rocket and the devs is where the game world rubber hits the real world road. They are gamers. Since Rocket himself prefers 3P in most situations, it'll stay. What I suggest is adding adjustable "stance," and locking the camera near solid objects or when prone. Why? To shut up all the 1P whiners. 1P campers are going to kill them anyway, since they seem incapable of adjusting to current game ambush tactics. But PLEASE shut them up. That's a HUGE win/win. Of course I know no more about programming DayZ than most of those here. So it's in Rocket's hands. Hey, Rocket. When I'm prone in the wild IRL I can move aside grass blades and branches to get a view, and raise my head in almost infinite increments, using my neck, or elbows. Same with looking around corners. Only expose enough of my head to get one eye looking. That's how I do it in real life. Certainly nothing like the video at the beginning of this thread. Big piece of head/body/leg showing. That's not realistic. It's a joke. And I kinda like using the barrel of my assault rife to make a small gap in bushes to see through and sight down, if that's possible. And I can climb a ladder one handed, with a grenade, rifle or pistol in my other hand. Of course I can jump around too. So please fix all that, will, you? What's that? It's a game, and there's only so much you can do? Oh, okay. Then I'll adjust to the game you design. If I like playing it. So far, so good.

Exactly. Until the game provides "real life" hidey holes, "real life" ability to set up an ambush, 3P periscope is the substitute. In "real life" every single house, barn, and industrial building would make a good ambush point. I suppose these same guys would complain about every building being dark inside, while it's full daylight outside. Not fair! That's all tactical play style, and there will always be campers/ambushers. Everybody knows the angles, and where campers can camp. If the 3P periscope effect is removed, rooftop peekers will camp elsewhere, and kill the same guys. It won't make a difference to them. I don't care what view the game uses, but it has to be playable for most people, including me. I don't camp, and since "infection" I don't stay too close to walls to peek around corners, since a zed might clobber me. But like Rocket, I prefer mostly 3P. I don't care if he nerfs it. Campers won't either. They'll kill the same guys - the guys who walk right into "You Are Dead."

Don't know how "good' it is, but I've spent some time on US 3279. No issues when I played it. It gets fairly good pop at certain times of the day. I've seen 20-30 if memory serves. Understand I was server hopping looking for anti-biotics. Not to "play." I don't like DayZ 1P. In DayZ 1P is tunnel vision claustrophobic, with no body awareness, and plain clumsy. I consider it cheating really. It cheats me by stealing my enjoyment of the game. You should try it yourself though. If you actually go a couple weeks, it'll be because you've been converted. Of course, that also means you're insane. Report your findings, and we'll weigh that in.

A fine place to go in this thread actually. I've had many kinds of beers. My favorite is probably Hacker-Pschorr Weiss. With a slice of lemon. But I don't want to drink that all the time. Your post was an excuse to grab a beer. I don't think of it enough, so forget to drink enough. There's no Weiss in the fridge, because I don't keep it stocked. Too expensive. I stock my go-to American beer, Miller High Life, AKA "The Champagne of Bottled Beers." An obvious lie, of course. But it tastes real good right now. So sue me.

In the "heat" of this discussion, I mostly simply reacted to what I considered specious arguments by the 1P fans. It was their insistence that 3P be entirely removed that added the "heat." Calling those who disagree "Cheats." "Exploiters." Wait. Enough of that. I feel the heat rising. I've refrained from responding for a while, because I'd just be repeating myself. Just been reading the arguments. Getting that distance from the "heat" has allowed more "reality" to float to the surface of my noggin, and made itself known. I'll just lay some of it out. I'd play DayZ in both 1P and 3P, and have. I prefer 3P. But would still play 1P if only that was offered. Because it's more visually appealing to me. The vistas offered, especially. on long runs. Simple as that. I like the swinging camera. Though I can't know, I suspect that's the same reason others prefer 3P. "Immersion." Don't care. I'm immersed enough in 3P. "Immersion" is determined by your own imagination. Totally individual impression. "PvP." Don't care. First off, I'll say I don't do much PvP, and when I do it's generally long range, and usually my scouting and patience have already given me the advantage. In cities, constantly moving negates most of the so-called advantage a guy has using 3P on a rooftop. He has to expose himself to shoot, and will nearly always miss, giving away his location. Then you have choices. Find higher ground to kill him from, stay out the range of his perch and go about your business, or get out of town. Your choice. You can see a thousand times on 3P YT vids where good tactical players swat away rooftop peekers. If he's in a building, and you're moving and clearing as you always should, it all devolves to twitch shooting anyway. The type of players who use 3P to gain tactical ambush advantage won't be stopped. In 1P their ambush tactic, let's say at a firehouse, would be to see your approach from a lean behind any number of places. It's 99% the approaching player won't see the head. He'll still be scanning rooftops. In fact a good 1P rooftop scanner wouldn't be seen by most players unless well-scouted from afar. Then the ambush player can just take a stance behind the wall near the stairs, even leaning to see the other guy entering. 99% he won't be spotted. Especially if he's laid down some bait, like NV or a DMR just inside the door. Even a can of Coke usually works. 99% of players don't move and clear. Looting gets their brain clouded. Camping is camping and ambush is ambush. You have to defend against it, in 1P or 3P. A motionless 1P guy in a ghillie under a tree is far more dangerous than a rooftop peeker using 3P. Smarter too, because he has better exits. So PvP advantage arguments don't work. Might as well complain about KOS or back-stabbers. Anyway, all I need to prefer 3P is visual appeal. It's the only reason I have really. And it's the ONLY reason I need. Of course none of that will quell those who INSIST, "You're wrong!" "You're a cheater!" "You're trolling!" "Get out of this thread!" Sounds kinda like some side chat I always see. BTW, nobody here is mentioning how infection plays into all of this. Infection keeps you always moving in cities, and even less prone to being hit by a rooftop peeker. But it increases his anti-infection advantage on a rooftop where zeds won't go. But when he fires the first time, there will be loads of them around the building. They won't despawn. That's how it works with both Cherno hospitals anyway. Sometimes we talk about entirely different games here. 1.7.7.1, older versions, SA. Many here aren't playing the current vanilla game, which is all I play. I'll ignore SA until it comes out. Rocket will decide, and I'm sure that though he will keep the best interests of the overall player base in mind, plenty will complain. It's all good. Complaints, good viewpoints, bad viewpoints, real stories, and bullshit stories. Hey, that's what it's about. I love it.

So here's what I learned so far. Many of those wanting 1P only are rude twits. Not all. They call others "cheats." They suggest others leave the thread. They insult. They pout, and pound their fists while they repeat the same old nonsense over and over again. They refuse to recognize that tactical decisions and skill are far more important than any 3P advantage. In DayZ you always move, and always look. NOBODY can shoot you without exposing himself first. In DayZ you scout, then go in with your feet moving, your eyes open, and an exit plan. No different than sniper defense You EXPECT a sniper. You EXPECT somebody behind that parapet wall scanning you. You EXPECT somebody behind that yard wall. In real life they'd have cracks in the wall to look through. In houses they'd have shades, and you couldn't see in. That's real life. Defend against it. DayZ does a good job of simulating it with 3P. It has no other means. Real life would be worse. Defending/sniping always has advantages. Learn to neutralize them. Throwing a smoke grenade into a building before entering, going in and taking a position away from the door can neutralize a defensive advantage. Team play can draw enemies out. Flanking can expose them. Aw, you didn't think of that, or don't want to bothered to with it? Too bad. If it's a team, in 1P the guy behind a rooftop parapet wall won't even have to look. His scout watching from the hill will just say, "He's 20 yards north of you, back turned. Pop him now." You gonna cry and cry about that "exploit?" Personally I don't give a fuck if it's 1st or 3rd, as long as the game works. But you twitch shooters probably won't win this one. Every argument you've made is lame to me.

I don't buy that at all. From the beginning DayZ has been primarily a 3P game. It was designed that way. It's been very successful. There are no "exploits" with 3P. The view is designed into the game, and every player has it. It compensates for many "clunky" aspects of the game engine. If some player outsmarts you by using it more effectively, it's no different than walking into the scope of a ghillied sniper in 1P laying prone under a tree. Or getting killed by a "smarter" player when you get yourself stuck in an animation at the wrong time. It's up to the player to yell "No Fair!" and blame it on the game - or blame himself. You won't "keep everyone" happy. You have what seems to be a bunch of COD PvP twitch shooters here crying that everybody should be forced to use 1P. Then you have others talking about "immersion" and wanting their idea of "immersion" forced on everybody else. Typical forum argument. There's NOTHING "deep" here. That's all good. I enjoy it myself. The answer has been given. Let the market decide. The designers will have that in mind, and the players will play, or walk away.