Ken Bean

I thought I already tried, e.g. here: What's the point which might be unclear?

Could you explain your thoughts on this? Without any explaination it slightly looks like you just invalidate every opinion which isn't yours, by saying "wrong". How could a constructive answer look like? Do you just want everyone to repeat everything what already has been said? So how can I help you?

How about trying to convince him, like so: :murder:

Doesn't really sounds convincing and I knew that the world wasn't perfect. But mind, 3 hives, 4 difficulties, dev-team has perfect control over gear and drop rates. You could call yourself hardcore, given you actually play on expert-difficulty. If everyone would play in 1st person only, and if 1st person only whould be hardcore, wouldn't be everyone hardcore? You'd need to give yourself a new strange sounding title, like hardcore elite, which everyone would at least smile about. Nah, why not making it this way? World's not perfect, neither we are. There musst be room for failure. And some features should be spared out for the right difficulty in the perfect moment. And please don't complain about empty expert server. Not everyone can be an expert. Expect life to be different there. If you have mates which don't want to play on expert server, then be it, you can decide if you play there or not. But there only is one hardcore character. Edit And if you change the difficulty, like going back to veteran servert, the expert char will die. This will prefent folks from claiming to be expert/hardcore or whatever and camping the whole day on veteran server. What happens if your mate doesn't want that 1st person only thing anyway? He then stops playing entirely? What have you accomplished in that situation? Driven your friend away?

I really don't get why it cant be handled like this: - 4 difficulty settings - last difficulty "Expert" is 1st person only has its own hive - difficulty "Veteran" has its own hive and 3rd person enabled, maybe a little tweaked - difficulties normal and easy also have an own hive, which they share So you guys still can call yourself hardcore, still have 1st person view only and hopefully stop camping on verteran server and exploiting the hell out of the 3rd person. There are many advantages, everyone gets what they want and it's no longer possible to farm easy modes for weapons to get full geared on veteran or expert server. Let's do it like this, everyone gets happy and is dancing in the steets. Doesn't sounds good?

So you read the whole thread without getting anything? I know, you just don't want to understand.

If the FOV is the same, doesn't matter, since the viewpoint is different. Same FOV, another view. ;) I know, for FOV-fixed folks this is hard to understand, but the different viewpoint is what the 3rd person makes so a valuable feature of the game. If you don't want to let the points count, that's your decission. Otherwise they are valid. DayZ is more than a shooter, it is a survival game which also implies role playing. What sense does it make to have all the features, functions and items in the game if you never see it on your character? It has been said a billion times and it actually makes sense. There are 1st person only server available, just join them and all is fine, isn't it? If you want to understand why the 3rd person view encourages and enriches player-player interactions, read former post which has been made. It has all been explained.

- player-player interaction - encourages role playing - tactical overview, no tunnel vision - reflects natural self and souround awareness - no desorientation in buildings like with 1st person This and more already has been said. And last but not least, given that allmost everyone is playing on 3rd person server (even those who complain about), people seems to like it.

Anyway, I think this divide in 1st person only and 3rd person enabled server was a great idea and actually works really dandy. Played on a vanilla expert server the whole day, in 1st person, most of the time alone. Got infected but have everything to cook meat. I ate round about 2 sheep, 4 goats, 2 boars, 3 or 4 cows and countles canned food. Now meat is empty but I'm still alive and full of blood as I logged out. (Is that normal that I found so many animals? Thought usually it were less.) I wonder what those 60% are doing on 3rd person server. Edit Latest poll said 60%, not 90%. Apologizes. Edit2 Btw, after playing a while, I'm for having 1st person only server. Note, I'm not saying 3rd person should be removed, but having those 1st person only server available also enriches the game imo.

Nonlethal encounter is something which doesn't exist?

Yeah, 90 % want to play 1st person only, but cant, because of the remaining 10%, which is playing on 3rd person server... Wait a minute. If those 90% would play on 1st person server, they'd probably full, right? Just do it. Regarding player interaction. I imagine interaction difficult, I someone runs around a corner and immedeately shoots me into the face, because he's thilled 180% and a bit nervous as well. So he just saw something moving and thought in those 20 miliseconds of time: "Shit, him or me." I prefer to keep my head down and watch a while. Guess I would be forced to let weapons speek more if 3rd person would be removed. Yes, 3rd person gives you time. Maybe this is rather important if you want to make friendies?

Very good points. Third person gives you time for player interaction. You have time to think, to observe and to judge.

You seems to be one of these who constantly want the game to be more annoying until you finally stopped enjoying the game and leave. But what's the point you want to make? That I make poor arguments? I didn't see any good from you lately. And now? I thought we already made some progress. 3rd person stays in, it's getting tweaked a bit. Both views are valuable. 1) I have no doubt that the SA will be vanilla (since vanilla means unmodded, and won't be released modded, how could it be not?) and that's a good thing I actually appreciate because I right in the moment have problems with the mod being too much modded all around. A point we argued about something just because to argue about sth? 2) Getting infected or a broken bone is a feature one actually can enjoy, because it is not the default game. It can be fixed in game, it's temporary. The first person on the other hand on 1st person only server is like a broken bone from the start which can't be fixed in game. So the feature 1st person can't be compared to other game elements. Or are you someone who breaks his bones by purpose because you enjoy it that much? You probably avoid it and if so, you fix it. It's a mechanic which actually is enjoyable and makes sense. The 1st person view also is enjoyable, but like the broken bone, not for the entire game. 3) I'm not only complaining about the fov. The fov btw is fine, if you want to have super tunnel vision. Don't get me wrong, super tunnel vision is not bad, it's just bad all the time. I'm not complaining about the fov, I jst don't want the 3rd peron view to be removed. This is my favourite viewpoint. My second favourite viewpoint is 1st person. As easy as that. I can understand that PvP driven player see the 3rd person as an exploit and therefore this should be tweaked a bit. But I want to keep it in. In my opinion btw, the ability to switch between both points of view makes the game more interesting, more enjoyable, more compelling. Wait a minute! - Maybe you find the 3rd person annoying? That's good, then we have both a reason to keep it in. :D

3rd person is going to be tweaked a bit, so no worry. You also don't need to use it. I know, using a handy feature sometimes is not easy. But regarding that polls, if they would all stand behind their vote, 1st person server would be many and full of player ... Yes, 1st person feels more tense, but this also can annoy you in the long run. Walking barefoot on nails also feels more tense. ;) Being constantly thrilled is just stressful. Not everyone wants it. Normal days sometimes are stressful enough. This can get exhausting. In 1st person you just don't see enough. It feels like wearing blinders. It also makes finding loot in grassland to a life task. Somwhere is a point where you just had enough tunnel vision, staring and blury vision. There's nothing wrong with trying to enjoy a game.

It depends much more on the game world and it's atmosphere. FPV/TPV are two valid views which work and can deliver it. But I wonder how often we could split that hair. I also never said 1st person cant or 3rd person can do better. If a world is deep, interesting and consistent, it will work anyway.

Wasn't questioning the importance of a point of view and stuff (movies and camera technics wasnt the fuss about), I was just questioning the whole "1st person = immerson" debate, which went int "only 1st person is immersive". I tried to give other examples and took movies and books, which also have immersive potential and that the 1st person view alone per se is not the holy grail. There are other factors which are importand as well. You backed that in your 2nd part. :thumbsup: If you ever had an "empty game", with only a first person cam, you'll see there's loads of stuff missing to create immersion. Hint: You do not immerse into a person, but into a world.

The topic is a bit overblown. As you say, 3rd person view in and 1st person server out or in or whatever will not effect sales that much. Point also is, atm the 3rd person is as it is and we all enjoy the game. I don't think someone stopped playing because of the perspective. As said in the thread, even 1st person fanatics and purists usually play on 3rd person server, because the action still is there or because of a friend or whatsoever. So it cant be that bad, after all. Needs a bit tweaking, maybe.

Anyway, topic makes me paranoid. Now even trees have eyes in dayz. And there are a lot. >.> They watch me, wanna figure out where my tent is. <.< And when, as soon as I'm offline, they eat all my steak. >.>

But WoW made more cash than both together. ;D

Looks completely legit to me, what you 1st person guys say? Exploits everywhere?

I've seen it, it's okay, very good. Interesting film, cause the perspective constantly switches the roles. You are either the cam of a tv team or a smartphone or security cams, webcams, cams of wittnesses and so on. Your are all-knowing like the NSA. :D

3rd or 1st person are nothing else but viewpoints, what perspective a cam has. What I tried to say is that immersion can be created with both. For being immersed the perspective is not the super-über-major factor, like 1st person fantics claim to times. Key element is dense believable atmosphere and a consistent world. You can have this in a book as well as in a movie. Yes, you probably can't control the movie, but this also is not the key element to immerse into sth. Can't be that difficult to track my argumentation.

We talked about immersion, not about control. I also din't say that you could control the film you are watching. Maybe there are interactive films, but let's don't even think in that direction. ^^ As said, the whole is more than the sum of its parts. If immersion would be 1st person, they would have called it 1st person.

Absolutely, this makes games different. I didn't say that games are movies.

The words what you are searching for are "atmosphere" and "dense". Because that's what the 1st person view in DayZ means: the atmosphere for you is a little more dense. You know, point is, your brains the same, regardless if watching a movie or playing a game. Fear is fear, its not sth entirely different, because you have another medium.