Ken Bean

It depends much more on the game world and it's atmosphere. FPV/TPV are two valid views which work and can deliver it. But I wonder how often we could split that hair. I also never said 1st person cant or 3rd person can do better. If a world is deep, interesting and consistent, it will work anyway.

Wasn't questioning the importance of a point of view and stuff (movies and camera technics wasnt the fuss about), I was just questioning the whole "1st person = immerson" debate, which went int "only 1st person is immersive". I tried to give other examples and took movies and books, which also have immersive potential and that the 1st person view alone per se is not the holy grail. There are other factors which are importand as well. You backed that in your 2nd part. :thumbsup: If you ever had an "empty game", with only a first person cam, you'll see there's loads of stuff missing to create immersion. Hint: You do not immerse into a person, but into a world.

The topic is a bit overblown. As you say, 3rd person view in and 1st person server out or in or whatever will not effect sales that much. Point also is, atm the 3rd person is as it is and we all enjoy the game. I don't think someone stopped playing because of the perspective. As said in the thread, even 1st person fanatics and purists usually play on 3rd person server, because the action still is there or because of a friend or whatsoever. So it cant be that bad, after all. Needs a bit tweaking, maybe.

Anyway, topic makes me paranoid. Now even trees have eyes in dayz. And there are a lot. >.> They watch me, wanna figure out where my tent is. <.< And when, as soon as I'm offline, they eat all my steak. >.>

But WoW made more cash than both together. ;D

Looks completely legit to me, what you 1st person guys say? Exploits everywhere?

I've seen it, it's okay, very good. Interesting film, cause the perspective constantly switches the roles. You are either the cam of a tv team or a smartphone or security cams, webcams, cams of wittnesses and so on. Your are all-knowing like the NSA. :D

3rd or 1st person are nothing else but viewpoints, what perspective a cam has. What I tried to say is that immersion can be created with both. For being immersed the perspective is not the super-über-major factor, like 1st person fantics claim to times. Key element is dense believable atmosphere and a consistent world. You can have this in a book as well as in a movie. Yes, you probably can't control the movie, but this also is not the key element to immerse into sth. Can't be that difficult to track my argumentation.

We talked about immersion, not about control. I also din't say that you could control the film you are watching. Maybe there are interactive films, but let's don't even think in that direction. ^^ As said, the whole is more than the sum of its parts. If immersion would be 1st person, they would have called it 1st person.

Absolutely, this makes games different. I didn't say that games are movies.

The words what you are searching for are "atmosphere" and "dense". Because that's what the 1st person view in DayZ means: the atmosphere for you is a little more dense. You know, point is, your brains the same, regardless if watching a movie or playing a game. Fear is fear, its not sth entirely different, because you have another medium.

Are you not able to immerse into movies or books? Not? Then why watching or reading? Just think about and see how the "1st person = immersion" argument is nonsense. Ever played Jagged Allience 2 to an extend? It can happen that if you dream or take a pie after a session you are actually thinking about how many action points you need to make your way to the kitchen. If a third person turn based game can create such a situation, then point is proven, doesn't it?

No, I just mean everyone grows up some insights.

You will come to the point as well sooner or later. Might help to not to fanatise a perspective (which alone means absolutely nothing).

Am I right that you merge with your computer, reaching a new level of being? Your eyes and you body disconnects, you feel the pixles, and then you fload into the the matrix, right? Yes, everyone who is immersed does it all the time. ^^ Nah, I know what I like and frankly am not convinced of the *super immersion* is the shiz. Came along all my life without that marketing term. All immersion for me is nothing else than dense believable atmosphere. Importand is, the entire world must be consitent. Then you can 1st person throw out of the window. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. And 1st person for me just is a minor important part.

Nah, ever seen someone moving his body while playing a 3rd person racing game or a jump and run like Super Mario Bros? They move their body becuase with the situation, they feel like being connected. Also the folks which starts moving in movies, boosted a bit by 3d. @(TMW) Marion Mic Beans for good taste. And the 1st person preference, well, we all have our own idiosyncrasies.

If there's a third person in, the player char should be able to be customised. This probably helps people to identify themself with the avatar they are playing. Some seems to see the avatar as a stranger as long as they are not in 1st person. Just an idea. Good news. Don't know, they seems to have the time. It's not that expensive, but time intensive. I'm certain they do test what they can. They still have to work on the netcode which will still take some time anyway, I've read somewhere. I for myself would drop the 1st person entirely, at least I'd only let ironsights and scope views in 1st person in. Or inventing a 3rd person fight system. (It's a little late though)

Yeah ^^ ... well, sooner or later you will get the function behind it. I just can point out that maybe one of the, if not the, difficulies video game ever made is an iso perspective 3rd person player game. And that seeing your character in the world not only is a barbie clothe thing. If you ever have been to a movie in the cinema, big one, like the old Indiana Jones movies, sth like Lord of the Rings or maybe Blade Runner or a film by Schwarzenegger or whatever, you can get sought in. Its not like "Huh, the movie is 3rd person, I'm not in 1st person the hero, I absolutely cant watch it..." Nope, 3rd person actually woks and even pretty well. Almost every movie out there is made in 3rd person. Almost? Except films like Doom, the last minutes. And if you have a cvloser look, a film in 1st person does not work that dandy. :-/ Funny, yes, but not convincing. Also games like Gothic 2 are extremely convincing. They create immersion even better and deeper than any of the *1st person supper immersive* games I played. It's like beaming your charakter into the world, rather than letting him sit outside.

In my opinion there are 3 options. 1. We find a compromise both factions could life with. 2. One of both factions doesn't get what they want. 3. Choice: Both types exist, there are 1st and 3rd person server, situation as it is now, maybe more 1st person server, since that view finally has been fixed in the SA and it is playable without the flaws the mod still has. .. sth forgotten? I'd vote for #3.

Sounds like seeing nothing. Almost funny. :)

I can read it as often I can, this wouldn't bring your opinion to that point to light. I just try to explore your tollerance. You say what you cant accept and maybe tell why.

What about a function which zooms the 3rd person view smoothly constantly closer and closer to the character the closer you get to a struckture, like a building or a wall? The zooming could find its endpoint in 1st person view. Edit This only will confuse the player. Bad idea, very likely not nice to play.

Maybe both types automatically go into cover near a wall or corner and have a certain pose which offers a certain view. The view is very restricted and tries to simulate real viewpoints and angles.

What about if a player, who spots you while he is in 3rd person cam, gives away his position by making a natural sound like coughing? You'd be warned and know the direction.

Lets explore the room or condition in wich both philosophies could coexist. What do you think about a cover system?