Wep0n

totally agree with Rista Well explain me please how this should look like. imagine walking in third person, and suddenly someting pops on your screen from nowhere, infront of you, just because this would not have been possible to see in first person. horrible idea! if you see the world in third person, then you should also see everything which is placed on an area visible on your screen! if you do not want people to spot things, then do it that way that they are not able to see the area at all, instead of wondering how the heck something just spawned infront of them whitout being there before. please specify your opinion. does that imply that you are happy how third person works currently? with what changes to third person do you disagree? are you happy with the third person mode which is capable to do the "exploit" we talk about?

we should not forget that most of our experiences where we got shot was due to hackers who spawned a shitload of ammo and sniper rifles. a normal guy who spent hours on finding that stuff would not just go to cherno to kill people, way to high risk to loose something like that just to have some "fun" sitting somewhere for hours for the sole purpose to kill people. I defenitely agree that ammo should be alot more limited, and weapon drop system balanced, but i am quite sure that this is going to happen in the standalone anyways. i do not believe that you will get as much loot as you did in the mod.

i am more than pleased that you find it useful! sure go ahead, the more this could help to solve the problem, the better :D Well the reason i sometimes go to first person servers is when i get frustrated that i just got killed by someone who was impossible to spot. not because he was a well hidden sniper, but because he was moving the camera to see where i am, whitout his character actually facing me. even though i love third person for many reasons, this exploit just has the potential to kill it for me. it is a huge unfairness towards the player who is playing the game normally vs. the guy who just lies on top of a roof and kills the regular player who had NO CHANCHE to do anything against it. One of the reasons why DayZ is so brilliant is its authenticity and realism. Third person exploit can hugely affect that authenticity, and is infact nothing other than meta gaming. let me ask one simple question: if you add wallhack to counterstrike, and make it the same for everyone, would people still even bother playing that game? the answer is no, because it ruins the fun and makes the game something completly different. DayZ should not be about using exploits to kill people, but to use his own wits to overcome a problem. if you manage to find a ghillie suit and a sniper rifle by hard work which took hours, and you decide to kill a guy who doesnt notice you, you earned it, because you had to work hard for it. if you decide to sneak behind a guy and kill him with your hatchet, you earned it, because the other guy did not pay any attention, or you was just clever enough. if you kill a guy thanks to an exploit, you did NOT earn it, and it did NOT make you more aware or intelligent than the player you just killed.

I think most people agree that this third person exploit is the ultimate disadvantage of third person. even some first person fanatics would not have anything against third person mode if it would be used fairly. here are some things ive gathered so far. mostly ideas from other people i picked up. (notice the sqares in my shitty drawings is the camera) Three obvious simple points to focus on: The exploit only takes effect when a player is behind of a medium sized object, such as a car or human sized Wall, or Lying ontop of an object such as a Roof, or being around a corner. If point 1 is true, the player can spot players while not being able to be spotted. If a player is about three meters away from the object the effect can mostly be ignored. it also does not take place if the object is lower than the payers point of view. Hinder Player vision Restricting Camera Angle Lock to First person in certain Situations Move Camera closer to Character Conclusion: -Simple things like locking the camera angle while lying on the ground or inside of a car, aswell as forcing first person during actions like ladderclimbing might fix some issues very easily, and whitout being too controversial. -other things like blurring the vision on certain areas might work if the technical and visual components could work, but heavily disputabe, and it might end up looking very shitty after all.

alright, let me post some collective ideas there....

i heavily agree on that point. there needs to be a way to fix the exploit, and no one would have to complain third person anymore. Since it is already officially part of the standalone, people have to accept it that there WILL be third person servers. Alot of alternative animations which might be implemented depend on third person so that the player knows what the heck the character is doing (http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/96165-arma-2-smk-animations/). Rocket also said that he was thinking about removing the hud completly, and you should be able to see all the needs the player has on the character movement/appearance/sound which makes third person even more relevant. solving things on the client side sounds really good, but i do not know how to accomplish that realistically... will the people you see behind the wall be invisible? or just the whole area black out? i cannot imagine very well how this could be realized whitout making it look weird when some parts just become invisible... but when i think about it... making it extremly BLURRY might solve the problem. there wont be any movement or objects displayed, but the background will keep some kind of basic colour so that it doesnt just look black, but obvious for the player that he cant see stuff. i might post blurry vision as a suggestion, im wondering what people think about it... my initial idea was a camera which is locked if there is something in the way. imagine you lying on a rooftop. normally you can move your camera down to see whats there. or you are behind a wall, move the camera so that you see something behind it. the idea was only to be able to move the camera where your player could actually see it. the roof exploit can easily be fixed by just locking the camera when you are lying on the ground, and you will only be able to move it until ground level, and not going further down. how you can fix the "seeing over walls/windows" exploit might be alot tougher, since the camera should register what is plausible to see and what not...

i think i heard rocket planning about pretty much that idea. but nonetheless a very supportable feature hopefully making it initially to the standalone.

well bullets ARE the best currency you could find. and because they have a high demand and use for all survivors, thats what makes them worth something. if you want to have a currency it must be something very hard to reproduce, which come in enough small quantities that you can set an amount on them (bullets or beans) but because the request for beans is very small for pro gamers, there is only bullets left...

Npc's: this could be so standard and boring. it is completly against the concept of dayZ where players create a unique experience. it is unathentic and i am completly against that idea.

nothing to add here, i fully agree

i generally support authentic murders and banditry, but a hacker shooting you from 2 km away just for fun is not the way it should be played. there needs to be good reasons for a murder. loot and food is a good reason. being bored and shooting out of fun because you got nothing better to do should be eliminated from the game.... with some clever mechanism which keeps you going....

well a bear would be nice... fitting to cherno... while there are almost no zombies in forests, there should be dangerous wildlife in general... if you run towards a boar and try to kill it with a hatchet it should be able to run away.... because thats what probably kept the animal alive when the zeds arrived. and if you come too close, or harm the animal, then it should be able to attack you... but this needs a good AI and i think that the devs will first focus on zombie AI which makes sense... so maby later in the future after the SA got polished a bit i would really like to see such authentic stuff... but bears should be generally rare, so i dont want any big bear vs. zombie fights in cities or something stupid like that...

i support that idea fully, but i do not know how this should work in first person. and playing in third person sucks as it is exploitable. if they fix third person view so that the camera can only move to places which your character can actually see, and therefore fixes the exploit, then i really believe this could work properly.

well this should be defenitely possible with player helicopters, i mean if you already add the TOH mechanics, then you should aswell be able to survive a crash and only damage the helicopter if the crash wasnt so severe

You see them in the distance. They always flee into the trees as you approach. You get a fleeting glance of them through windows, but you can never find them. You hear their little zed noises in your travels. You never manage to spot where they're coming from. You do get in close proximity to them (indoors for example), but they run too fast to hit. (The game might have to cheat a bit here). well that really is disturbing, and defenitely a decent way of dealing with it, but it could be annoying after a while, except if it is used as a warning signal for the player. lets say the child only appears rarely, and when it appears that means that there could spawn more zombies around him and bad things will happen. imagine how seeing the children is viewed as a bad sign, and people who know you saw them will stay away from you.... while my opinion is defenitely disputable for being very unrealistic and reaching in a meta-ghosly gimmick, it defenitely can be the HORROR hearing child voices, and seeing them on the windows and knowing that shit is going to get real... and not telling your friends about it because they will not want to risk their lives... abandoning "childrenseers" could become common, and also a way to do something challenging even if you got super gear and vehicles. i must say that if children are included in any way, they must be freakin scary and dangerous. noone likes pesky annoying little dwarfs running around, i am sure most people would be more than happy to place a bullet in their head if they behave retardedly. Edit: and freaking bind the chanche of seeing children to humanity! i think this could be a great way to represent the sanity of a player who killed alot of people... he starts seeing creepy shit, which might have negative consequences for him... like karma... and maby a higher chanche for positive events for good guys...

well that would make the game ALOT more awesome... i am not sure if id manage to get full use of these controls, especially whitout a proper tutorial. but it looks alot more cool than complicated, so you got my full support in bringing this idea to the devs if it isnt already. the moving animations seem to be alot more fluid, and there are alot of useful poses for each situation. i want to see snipers crouching, bandits do blind fire over corners in city combat, survivors climbing over walls... keeping the fonts small, for not going toomuch off topic and cause fuel for raging discussions: there is one major concern i have: alot of these controls dont seem to work so well in first person. when you got such a huge amount of body control, you really wanna know what you are doing. on one hand, blind fire really is BLIND fire, in first person, on the other hand in real life, you'd at least know in what general direction you are shooting. there is absolutely no feedback in first person what your character does. if they would add such animations, i for my part would prefer third person, but then again exploiting might be the case, so i really hope they could fix third person so that the camera is only movable in directions in which your character could actually see. as far as TOH controls go, i am more than happy adding the realism and challenge of flying a helicopter. this makes a group alot more diverse, as there can be different experts for different jobs. I for my part was the worst helicopter pilot, i always let my friend fly. another friend was a very excellent sniper, and i was the guy who was good at orienting, and i knew the map pretty well and was able to follow the stars, find water sources and such. together we made an excellent team, and everyone fulfilled a very special role, i want this to be even more extended int the SA Edit: and good luck with these controls on a freakin console... there are not even 10% of buttons on a controller required to play that game...

you guys gave me the ultimate laugh today! here, take my beans! Edit: infact you guys just gave me an awsome text to use as a signature...

Okay, i do not want to start a war about adding childzombies being morally incorrect, but rather focus on a community/business standpoint please dont do that. not because it is generally considered immoral, but because it might lead to a ban of the game in many countries. this could massively limit the player support, and the media would tear the game apart for how violent it is and how the game caused so many people to go rampage and kill people and all that bullshit. even if it adds to the atmosphere, and drama, and moral decisions... it will harm the game from all sides! please just dont do it.

that has just been confirmed today. both options will be available for the servers to choose from.

the thing i am most interested in the standalone is how they manage survivor interactions... if it is possible to make bases where survivors can stroll around, talk, trade... especially a holster weapon feature would be absolutely necessary if you want to be in a friendly enviroment. imagine a base controlled by a clan of like 10 people, all armed, letting people in aslong as they look healthy and holster their stuff... and interveining if a survivor pulls out a pistol or something... a base could not only serve as a safe harbor, but it also might allow sanitary installations, such as toilets so that shitting on the ground and infesting other people would not have to happen, also using showers to remove potential contaminaton on the body. and imagine finding single bullets, which you can stuff in your mag. not only would a magazine system make ammo conversion alot more realistic, but it could be used as a currency for trading... i really hope they focus on such stuff aswell, because this is one of the things allowing "friendly" players to socialize...

very informative, thanks for that you guys! only thing which distracted me was that stupid teamspeak voice... -user entered your channel- mute that bitch!

well i do not think that any kind of exploit which gives people an unfair advantage should make dayZ awesome... its more the natural feeling of surrounding and player body which makes it so popular among people. Edit: after reading it again i suddenly taste the obvious sarcasm which i was too stupid to understand.

according to you a very big part of the dayZ community has some kind of inexplainable sickness, only caused by the game DayZ, and by no other game around! well sherlock, what a suggestion! instead of asking about the problem which causes these symptoms (which can be easily fixed by just increasing the FOV or activating third person) you question the physical condition of thousands of players.... great job... i surely am sick like all the other people, it also deserves a new name, because it only appears in that game under certain circumstances... you are the medical genious here, so please suggest a new name for this pandemic disease which affects so many people! i actually wanted to stop posting stuff about "options menu enhancement", because i made myself clear, and most people accept the fact that some people can not stand the current state of the first person, which currently can only be fixed by manually manipulating the config file, or using numpad for a slightly increased FOV, but is far away from "custom and easy". All the standalone needs is some graphical options (such as FOV and more) to customize the player's preferences. i do not understand in any way why the heck someone should be concerned about having some standard features which belong in a normal game. this is a totally harmless, small, humble feature, which is desired by most people. If you can live with your standard settings that is fine, now be a good man and accept the fact that people may have different eyes and brains and screensizes and aspect ratio and color display... a neat graphical option display was suggested as a feature to aid people who cannot stand the way first person is displayed or find it outright broken, and added this as a reason why they prefer to be in third person. it doesnt harm anyone, at all! why cant we just put that discussion in terms of "we want more graphical options" aside, and focus on the actual subject, third person vs first person. sorry for that wall of text over something basic, dull and obvious just to state the simple fact that a "basic graphical options menu" is good and harmless. for people who are sick of such a basic statement, just move along and bring the thread forward with some new fresh constructive idea on the actual subject!

Wow, my expectations just rose quite a bit! These screenshots made me even more thrilled about the standalone than i already was, it seems to be alot more polished than i expected!

well of course i did not mean that we should have a FOV up to 200 in dayZ, thats ridiculous... its just an example showing how FOV affects the game, and that a low FOV is bad, especially for dayZ... making a slider going from 70 to 120 degrees would be optimal and realistic.