xximrtwoixx

Everything has benefits and drawbacks IRL, this is what needs to be implemented with gear/weapons in dayz. It doesn't "balance" the game by making crappy things better or good things bad, it simply increases the authenticity. Everything is a tool, and every tool has a specific purpose. Its your job to choose the right tools for the right situation. .50's are so big/heavy that they are really only used from set positions at extreme ranges, they are so big/heavy because the fire a massive bullet with alot of powder, this gives them alot of damage and with good ballistics. An M4/AKS is a light multi use weapon platform, because it fires a small caliber round, this also allows you to carry more rounds. You sacrifice damage compared to full rifle calibers like 7.62x51. Full lvl IV body armor would protect you from one full size rifle bullet, but its heavy/hot when compared to a lvl I vest...

+1 to this Capping loot would be a wholeistic approach with the benefit of providing an actual economy within the game. Having an economy introduces tons of immergent game play as people struggle against each other to control that economy.

The reason not to add them is because its a waste of dev time, as you have to set up ballistics, skins, etc. for a weapon that already has one or two items filling that slot. Or they are just shitty reskins,of the same code and thats also a waste Imo. Also you dont really pressure loot with more items, yea you see fewer tin cans but junk is junk.

If servers remained community owned you could allow same region cross world travel to eliminate the issue with servers being down, this would not eliminate hopping/ghosting though. This why I would prefer corporate servers because these considerations would not reduce scope.

I know, you don't think anyone should have an advantage over anyone else, or that working towards things in game should result in any type of reward. If there are no rewards, or a tangible point in survivnig or being successfull, establishing a stockpile, building a base then whats the point? You simply have an extended round of COD style free for all DM on a huge map where your required to eat. If thats all you want fine, I want persistence, I want an authentic immersive world, and part of that IMO is that your not always going to be on an equal level, you can and will be subjegated by forces greater than yourself. Your biggest objection is based on a design gap that exists in an alpha? Rocket has talked about dealing with hopping in a myriad of ways, and he has also talked about the end goal being linked servers that require travel. Farming IMO is not as bad as hopping as your exposed to risk and it takes coordination of effort, but I still don't like it, and I think this mechanic would solve it because it would take away the motivation to farm outside of an initial economic run all gear. After that it would result in conflict over "elite" gear, really IMO it would simply make "common" gear way more valuable because you would be able to locate ammo. Also as I included in the OP cornering the market doesn't mean all that much in this type of system, ammo would actually be increadibly rare because it too would be capped. Also as mentioned in OP Civilian weapons can kill just as effectivley when in the hands of good players and they could have inflated possesion numbers or no cap at all. This is in OP and explained in prior posts also... Loss to limbo of inactive players can be handled in a variety of ways, that item could remain in their possesion and it's count could simply be returned to the loot table. Inactive means =\= possesed in the query. Keeping loot in this system would be a challenge people would be much more motivated to track down your tents or you to get what they want food/items/weapons. Also as I said certain things could have buffed numbers or no cap so new players would still be able to locate certain things, the things that are needed. I think there's a song about how it would work.... How many moving parts and player motivations are effected by an endless supply of whatever you want? How many people would complain about being a bandit when they are forced to experiance a decision of starvation vs conflict with another player? IMO this is just as much about authenticity as it is about "economics" it is much more authentic in the displayed scenario that players not be able to find endless supplies of loot. Also you can't have an economy when there is no reason for demand, you don't get demand if everything is freely available. Yes people trade now, NVG's for AS50's, I want to see a player with an AS50 want to trade it for 10 can's of beans. It would really only change where players go to aquire things, instead of going to a supermarket or NWAF they are going to tents. This already happens alot, I think more than you account for. Tents aren't secure so anything inside of them is available for anyone who is smart enough to find it. The gear isn't removed from the economy the way you describe, it's in a tent or its on someone's person, that's where inflation comes from, becaues its there and then you go and spawn it and you have it too. By removing loot out of circulation do you mean spawning it in? I don't understand how you can't understand that once something is spawned in it is in the economy no matter where it is until it is destroyed/deleted via restart. Thats what creates inflation in the current system, there is no limit to what can be spawned in. Its not false scarcity in this system there are actually only X amount of things, that is scarcity. Because Y number of people have a certain percentage of X doens't make it false or overappreciated. This is economics, there is no even distribution of wealth in an economy, if there is unlimited supply then there is no demand so there is no economy, just a bunch of people that want to be rambo. I think the scenario you describe, small number of people controlling a large number of resources and using that contorl to influce the actions of others sounds pretty authentic in an apocalypse. See the post #8 that directly addresses your comment, thanks for elaborating on how effective degredation can be authentic, or how degredation can even have an effect on the loot economy.... If they don't break or aren't removed, but instead "jam" during use they are still part of the economy if they can be fixed you still have inflation, if they can't be fixed then it is exactly what I describe below. Also even if they jam one shot weapons like snipers rifles will still be valuable unless the jamming percentage is as rediculous as the rate of degredation over time that will be required to have any influence on the in game economy. Can you answer any of the below questions? Time lapse degredation is simply a nerf for the sake of having a nerf, it provides no additional game play or content the way an actual economy based on scarcity would. Add to that it is unauthentic and breaks immersion, no account for how/where weapon is stored? Why does it wear out as soon as I posses it but it hasn't worn out while it was sitting at whatever location I looted it from? These things can't be considered because if they were an item would stay in the economy fully functional, if it can be fixed the same thing happens, thus the mechanics purpose as a nerf would be ruined. That is how you can tell it is only a nerf/balancer and not an addition of actual content. If this is the case BazBake gets his wish because storing any gear when it degrades over a short period of time into crap makes it useless to aquire or store gear. Why have persistence at all if your going to nerf it into being pointless? I don't want disposable one use experiances that throw planning and vision out the window, and thats what a timlapse degredation mechanic would be creating.

Did you read OP? Maybe you don't understand what I'm trying to express, the hive can remain intact in the system I'm describing, the players location and thus what severs they can join is controlled by saving extra data to the hive. Hive stores your x and y coordinates now thats how you end up in the same location in different servers or when you log back in. I'm saying save two more pieces of information that say what world your on, and if you are within the x and y coordinates that make up a transition zone. If you are in a transition zone then you can travel to the next server over in that same world. If neither of these conditions are met and you try to login to another server you are not allowed to login. (This could impact loading times as these things would need to be run when you log in) Example of how the worlds would look/act A single world or group of four servers: Chern + NW | +|+ | Chern + NE _______________________ ++++++++++******++++++++ _______________________ Chern + SW |+ |+ | Chern + SE The "+" areas mark transition zones or areas that exhist in both worlds that allow you to cross over from one server to the other Because Chern is this shape it can be flipped around to use the same map for all corners of the island just by changing the directions in game, (This would probably mess up stars/sun/moon and all kinds of other stuff on some of the servers though, but it could still be used to test the transition mechanic w/out making a new map) Chern now N W _| E S Chern SW N W was E L E was W S

I'm fine with degredation as I think it is authentic, but I think it needs to be implemented correctly otherwise it is simply a gamey mechanic ment to punish people for being successfull. If damage done was used to implicate wear this would punish people for having good aim rather than indicate hard use. Really the only trackable things that could be used to measure degredation would number of rounds fired and number of hits to weapon from incoming fire. Damage from incoming fire could be very high and I'd be fine with that, but your rifle turning into garbage after a couple hundred rounds is BS IMO, especially for some systems like revolvers, pump actions, bolt actions etc. I think degredation could be used to make these low tech weapon platforms more valuable because they are more robust than semi auto/full auto platforms. People abusing meta game through purchasing of extra CD keys shouldn't be a major factor in design IMO. In the end its more money for the company and those players are doing more work. Agree here, I think the key is attempting to get close to set numbers for scarcity not ensuring you have them and as you state degredation can function as a secondary control much better than a primary control. This is duping and I hope it will be fixed addressed in standalone, from what I've read/heard in interviews magazines will be refillable containers in standalone thus this issue would be solved straight away. I agree that your inability to secure storage acts as a control of persistent storage. But the scenario you describe is inflation in action group B now has 5 AS50's and group A has 5 more in an hour. Becaues good weapons or the best equipment are what is taken from tents/players they will simply continue to be more common.

I like anything that deals with ghosting and hopping, but I see a couple issues with your mechanic. I would also like to see a more elaborate solution based on travel as it wouldnt allow players to escape at all. How long before people know where all spawn positions in or near cities or locations are at? How long before these are simply camped to hell by people? People will also be able to abuse this to fast travel, get closer to city b, log onto other server be in city b.

Spawning a new character could be handled ib different ways, you could probably pick your lication via what server you'd like to play on. Thanks For the compliment man, anyone else have thoughts?

I think scarcity can be seperated from depletion, scarcity does introduce depletion but it still allows for a set number of items to exhist. You really can't have either with the current loot system though, thats why I posted this suggestion because I believe it would be the best way to handle loot spawning. If at a later time the servers need more tears to cool off Dev's could reduce the possesion percentage over time to create depletion if they wanted. With this mechanic it could be applied to all servers at the same time rather than single servers like you suggest. The data for all of the equipment in players inventory is already kept in the hive, thats how you have the same gear when you log in as when you log out. The mechanic I suggest runs a query of the hive's data to check at what percentage all items occur in the total player population, (this could be modified to exclude players that haven't logged in a certain time frame) this number is saved as player possesion rate. Its simpler if there aren't community servers as all the data from servers would be easily available also as above and stored equipment would be calculated in the same way as above. With community servers you code in a before/after restart script that checks all equipment in storage as that data is what is saved on the server side. On a restart the server sends this information to the Hive servers where it is added to the player possesion rate to give you the total possesion rate. This is then used to remove any items from the loot tables that are possessed over their determined possesion rate. As all of this happens as a nightly one time job and then on server restart I believe it would only effect the entire system at server restart (they would be longer) and during the nightly job (Servers could be down or slow while it runs). This is how business update produciton data to their UI's. The messy part is that servers will still have different numbers based on whats stored in them in the system, unless all of their data is saved and added together, again a product of community servers. I hope their are no community servers myself as it would make so many things much simpler, but thats a different topic. I am also for weapon degredation, but I agree that it won't be able to fix the game economy by itself.

Google police shooting percentage, the FBI tracks the results of police gun fights and their accuracy at different ranges. Even trained police officers are not accurate at 5 feet (hitting anywhere on the body), IMO aiming needs to be harder IG.

If a vehicel is hotwired once it would be able to be used by anyone that came accross it because you have to break the ignition lock on the steering column, thus key's no longer work to protect it. Add that in somehow and I approve.

I agree that certain things are needed for gameplay like a run speed that is 30km/h, the ability cary things that you'd never be able to, or bandage a wound/out infection, or instantly heal from wounds that don't kill you. I don't agree that you can't remove the ability to do everything from everyone when they start or at any point in the game, you let the people pick what they want to know when they start and let them learn some of or all of the things in game via other players or items. I do agree that upgradeable skills would be authentic, i think upgrading them through their relative actions simply results in grinding and IMO thats a waste of my time.

I know what wears out, how many rounds does it take to wear something out in a carrier group, a barrel, a trigger assembly? How many rounds are actually fired by players? Even adding multiple possesions and a chance for breaking through violent possesion change what is the chance that the weapon is a 10 pound paper weight within a week? That gets you X. Now "balance" X so that weapon wears out fast enough so that you lose it before another player spawns in that same exact weapon. Because a player can go farm a location they can get the weapon within an hour, so now X goes from a weeks time to the average use within an hour, how much is that 2-3 clips maybe 5 if pure pvp? If they aren't pvping then that may last them weeks, how many players now have that weapon in a week? So should X really just be time and not wear? Does X equaling a couple hundred rounds or a given time authentically simulate weapon degredation? Can any of this add up to a system that has any semblance of control on the loot economy when players can go game the system to get whatever they want and store as many as they want? Can you answer any of the above??

No one likes this idea or hates it....

Point buy at character creation with an option for immunity to zombie virus but costing all point buy points would allow lonewolfs to bypass the ZIB economy. As long as other options are as valuable in aggregate it equals out, like spawning on your group or at your base, or spawning with certain gear.

I think its bs that I would not be able to service a fire arm, or that it would degrade to the point of being unoperable within an amount of time that would matter if the user knows what their doing. Wear out your shoes, run out of matches, etc but adding in nerfs that act soley as nerfs and are completley outside the players control is both unauthentic and the deffinition of gamey IMO. Even if you couldn't repair items it still would have little effect, go to NWAF farm the barracks for an hour, leave with multiples of whatever I want. You can increase the spawn time for items, but then I can just farm for 2 hours instead, or hop to 10 servers. I can also figure out how the loot spawns so I can have other members of the team coming in to generate their own loot chance to increase how many spawns we get. Or do you want to extend the respawn timer to the point that its once per restart, then the admins exploit it even worse than my suggestion, and no one else gets anything when they go to loot locations. Please elaborate

Its so realisitic that we are all SF soldiers with flight training, medical training, hunting, butchering, demolitions, and are experianced with the operation of firearms from multiple nations. Your simply using your experiance with skill systems from other games and applying it here, there doesn't have to be XP or SP, you don't have to see a character sheet.

As I stated gear sinks wont reduce the number of high end items, players will use their resources to fix their best equipment over their crappy equipment. They will also stop using high end gear if it is about to break so that it can be fixed, high end things will be babied and they will always be picked up off of bodies or out of tents. Thus gear sinks won't work to reduce inflation of high end gear... If you can explain to me how they would work to reduce inflation please do, I don't see a system working unless weapons break at a rate that ruins immersion because it is so un-authentic. Or if they were timer based, but then you have things breaking when your not even using them wtf would that be... Yes that would be possible, and it is addressed in OP. Do you prefer that everyone have everything available to them in infinite numbers?

Dynamic loot caps http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/83090-dynamic-hard-loot-caps/ Limit total number of items available so that things are actually scarce and survival is an active task. This would extend the play time required to be fully geared and beat the game other than PVP.

Time capsule.... I preffer a 55 gal drum myself, though authentically carrying one around would mean taking up your equiped item slot IMO, and require an entrenching tool to place.

I don't like the % increases/decreases associated with skins, I gues body armour could be included but hit detection and all the stuff that would need to be implemented make it low on priority list to me.

Diggin up this old suggestion, With the game going stand alone and Rockett confirming Chern + as the map I think that this idea could have some merit to experiment with linked servers. 4 servers host one world of 4 linked maps of chern, each map has true north re-mapped to make them represent a different corner of one large island. This would save alot of mapping and texture building and allow for transitions and player testing of linked maps. Thoughts?

Solo/Serious M14 AIM DMR 10 DMR Mags 9MM Side Arm prefer SD Biggest Pack you can find Running primaries that fire the same rounds allows you to carry more ammo and not get screwed by losing ammo when you switch weapons between inv and pack. Also Never run MP5SD6 with an M9SD if you switch it to your pack you will lose clips because MP5 can fire M9 SD mags... Raiding/Loot Farming AKM/AKS/Shotgun 3/4 mags No Secondary Alice/Chzeck Pack No tool belt equip This lets you carry back more and your also not losing your good shit Overwatch (Others are raiding/loot farming) Sniper or LMG Spotter with AWS Big Pack w/Med supplies

Both of you show a very closed mindset when you think about skills, just because most other games replace player skill with character skill doesn't mean thats the way DayZ has to go about it. @BazBake Skills or a skill system don't have to make it harder for older characters to die, they may be better at surviving but if there are no health/damage skills then how would it be harder for them to die? I guess if they have a medic buddy and there is an actual medical/damage system then maybe it could be harder, but they would still be taking the same damage as any other player and be just as killable. IMO skills add value to a characters life because they can't be replaced/carried over, if they don't increase health/damage or provide active abilities they should be added. @mZLY I'm not advocating to replace or even supplement player skill with character skills. How you shoot/drive/fly etc should be based on your skill as a player, without any random "spread" mechanics like BF3, where your sights are is where the bullet should be. I am however for making all of the above more difficult, more standing sway, easier to get "shock" status, increased exhaustion effect, etc. People should not start out as Special Forces soldiers IMO. These things could be made more managable via skills, but being a skilled player would make a bigger difference than the game skills. Skills should also work on the subsystems that players can't directly control, things like reload speed, or fixing a damaged/worn weapon or item. Time to apply a bandage, or give a blood transfusion, these things don't stop people from doing something but instead make having skills give players benefits that they don't want to lose.