xximrtwoixx

KOS is a product of the game and the scenarios players find themselves in. It will not go away, but rejoice as there is an easy alternative already in place that does not require gamification or magic skins, you simply choose to play the game in the way that will result in the most fun for you. And I will throw in some free advice.... As i'm not sure what game all of the nerf bandits/kos sight people are playing, I will explain the scenarios & game play most people find themselves in. Even if your playing lone wolf a characters life cycle should resemble something like this: 1. Spawn on the beach 2. Go into a major city (or to Balota) 3. Loot all necessary survival equipment and medical equipment (If at balota find a gun and wait for someone that will have all survival equipment) 4. Leave Coast 5. Hit deerstands on way to Northern Location 6. Loot Stary, NW, Berizino for military equipment 7. Find tents/vehicles 8. Make a camp 9. Loot other peoples camps 10. At any place in timeline above locate and loot helo crashes 11. Farm any location included in stage 6 and horde gear for your eventual death. If you look at the life cycle you see that at points 3, 6, 9, and 10 you are in direct competition for resources with other players that are at a similar stage in their characters life cycle. This is why people shoot each other in these locations. You decided to go to the fire station first so you have a primary, they went to church so they have a secondary and back pack, you both need/want each others gear so you shoot each other. I think 90% of pvp is centered around conflict or precieved conflict over resources. Precieved conflict equates to someone seeing you were they want to loot. Leet Advice: Most "vet" or experianced players spend 80% of their time at the above locations listed in stage 6, as this is where they will have a chance at the best gear or best equiped players. If you don't want to be shot then avoid these areas. Once you get past stage 7 above you have invested a fair amount of time and are well geared, this is the second cause of shoot on sight, you now know that you are a walking target/safe deposit box. People want your gear,cars,tents, etc. So you shoot anyone you see as this is the safest solution. This is just as it would be IRL, trusting someone you don't know has inherent risks and most players/groups that far along have more to lose than gain by being friendly. This can be avoided to a degree, simply avoid equipment that you know other people would kill you for. IMO there's nothing wrong with the above, or the current KOS play style people use. I think it can be fairly logically explained when you look at the scenarios that occur, and I think its actually fairly authentic. For all the people that don't like it, there is even a simple solution, just *avoid* the areas described above, and don't pick up gear people would kill to have. There is no need to add anything to the game, or change things to make it less authentic, players simply need to actually play the game the way that maximizes their enjoyment. If you don't want to be shot in the face then avoid the areas, players, and reasons that get you shot in the face. This solution is available to you because the game is a sandbox, you can live like a rat and avoid all contact with other players, you can be a civilian that avoids conflict, or a survivor doing whatever it takes to thrive instead of survive. TLDR: Before you QQ about bandit skins or shoot on sight ask yourself the following questions when in game and you are thinking about going to a location or you see a player: 1. Does highend loot spawn here? // Does the player have high end loot? 2. Do other players need/want to come to this location? // Do other players need/want this item? 3. Is this location on the way to a high end location? 4. Does this item make me feel like a badass? If the answer is yes to any of the above avoid that location/item and understand that the other player will murder you.

I think the biggest flaw in all of the stop KOS/Bandits threads is that you are trying to force people into two arbitrary groups based on their behavior and interactions with other players. Player interactions will always be dynamic and there is no way to track "good" v "bad" actions with a static system. Everything is based on perception just as it is in real life, an individual or group will perceive themselves as "good" while those in competition with them will perceive them as "bad". One persons "bandit/griefier" could be another person’s security or dedicated marksman. Also any type of tracking system will mean that eventually everyone will become a bandit, especially if it is tracked by account and not life, but either way you will run into major problems trying to track kill counts in an environment that is inherently violent. Also this is a game and players will play it as a game, the majority of actions will be dictated by what a player believes will maximize their reward. In a WROL scenario with direct competition over resources this means they will kill each other for loot. I for one think this is fairly close to a "real" scenario, without society to control people they revert to the animals they are. This will never change; the only thing that restores a semblance of normal behavior is the return of society. This can even be seen in small groups, grouped players are choosing to give up some of their rewards to gain other advantages, that is the definition of society. But because there are a limited number of external advantages and the Environment (Infected) does not dictate a certain size Groups will remain as small as possible to maximize all of the member's rewards. This won't change either, dependent on a player’s values they will join a group that maximizes their reward (Fun), thus group size will be determined by what players want to do in game, and this is controlled by what features exist that provide players choices. This is why I am for leaving everything open as players are then free to do whatever they like and seek out like minded individuals to pursue their endeavors. I do think there needs to be skins added to the game if large groups are going to be encouraged, and I think there needs to be more actions added to the game for thriving groups to take up. You can only horde so much. I play with a group of up to ten players; most of them have been met through playing dayz. There have been some bad seeds met in game but that’s life, I would not trade all of the interactions we've had for any mechanic that allowed me to identify people or their intentions on sight it would eliminate to much of the fun. In short download a voice client, sign up for a clan/group, or go look of friendlys next time you die. Gear is for one life finding a group or another player will last way longer so its worth the effort if you’re playing alone. TLDR You can't arbitrarily group players with a static tracking mechanic when all player interactions are dynamic. WROL scenarios revert people to the "State of Nature" and induce direct competition. It’s a game people will always min/max and play to their advantage. The only solution should be more end game content for groups.

People need to stfu about pvp, kos, bandits, or whatever else they want to label someone shooting them in the face. *You* have a problem with killing people in cold blood, for gear, for lulz, or whatever; so you dont do it. Thats the dayz morality system, its player decided, sucks to realize when shtf and rol is gone people will revert to what they r, animals. No one is telling you to play a certain way, stop complaining thag your own decisions are limiting your success in game, or go find some like minded individuals to start a convent. Edit, Hitler comparisons.... Really....

Its rather pointless to complain about farming the game mechanics encourage players to farm as it greatly increases the amount of loot they obtain and they also have the benefit of being fairly secure if in a low pop server or large group. As long as loot respawns you will have people farming it, there is no mechanic that will generate loot that will prevent farming. Servers/players need loot to spawn/despawn on demand for performance/playability. If you don't like this game mechanic you should post a suggestion that it be changed, as this would be the only way around loot farming, and as this is alpha this is the time to test new mechanics. I think it could be fun to play through an update were servers have no respawn of loot, or there are hard caps on numbers of items in a server. To the OP, good info, I have no objections to loot farming, all you really get out of it is the ability to avoid finding all of the crap other players didn't want to pick up. Do you have an explanation as to why gear will sometimes spawn immediatly after old items are picked up? I have picked up one remaining item in a location only to have all of the loot spawns there spawn gear. I do play in a group so maybe it was caused by the distance of another player but I'm not sure.

I think you can find one in the in game toolbox...

+1 In a game where you focus on obtaining things I think the inventory system should be a top priority. I would even like to see this go farther where most primary weapons could not even fit in a back pack but would instead be slung on your back as they are now when you equip your pistol. I would also like to see the option to holster your weapon leaving your arms available to cary large items like jerry cans or tires without them taking up spaces in your inventory.

There are some examples of static or prop pieces in the environment already, body piles, dead military personel, medical camps etc. I agree that these add alot to the environment and were a huge part of the fallout series and what really imersed you in the environment. Rather than see these included by the developers though I would like to see players have the ability to modify/create/change the environment. A bandit road block littered with dead bodies, or a barricaded house filled with ammo/guns but no food and one body. Pick up a recorded shortwave radio signal requesting help/giving warning. I disagree about additional mobs being included, I like the "realisitic" take with infected only, I do agree that encounters could be spiced up through delayed spawns, spawns on tents, or roaming packs. I think safe zones would end up being the most dangerous places in the game as bandits/griefers would simply hang out outside of the zone to ambush/kill players. Take a look at Free Side trading it is a player group that aims at establishing safe areas, I think the answer is to provide content that would allow players to build/fortify and clear areas.

Any system that uses tracked stats in a perma death game has two problems. 1. If it follows your account not a specific character, you will unlock most/all options eventually or you are forced to play all of your characters in a similar style because certain content is off limits to you. 2. If it follows your character and not your account, you will most likley never unlock a substantial amount of content because you will die. Player interactions are not modified because new characters are "reset" and again free from the yoke of gamification to choose how to interact with other players, ie shoot them in the face on site. I think that meta game solutions would be the most realisitic and also the most in line with the rest of the games features. Sadly most of these types of features are very hard to implement and thus may not be available in a mod. Namely this would be a full clothing system, but I do think more skins will be available and this should help. I also think that radios will be available eventually in the mod and they will add alot of depth to interactions.

I had this issue last night, I hadn't seen this thread so I tried to figure it out on my own. I opened six updater and it said I needed to update, I thought this strange as I was updated to the current version. I reinstalled 1.7.1.5 via six updater and then I was able to join back into servers no problem.

Can admins somehow corrupt your install as you have a connection to the server? While plaing last night I ran into a group of 5 players all were extremely well equiped, I layed an ambush for them and managed to kill 4 of the 5. When I respawned I went back to the location to find the last player also murdered and some of the gear looted. I looted the bodies and then those same players began to appear. I murdered 3 of them again and then I got desync, after about 5 minutes I quit out and tried to rejoin I then got a message that I had the incorrect version, I then got this message on several other servers. As 1.7.5 has been up and unchanged I don't see how this would be possible...

+1 this plane would fit perfectly into the setting IMO.

I believe this idea would be fairly easy to implement for the devs so long as they don't bother with textures/skins, its alpha that stuffs not important anyway IMO. Here it is: Add the ability to remove a silencer from an SD weapon to allow it to fire normal rounds. How it works: The weapons that have silenced variants also have standard non silenced variants, through script attachement either on the weapon or on a silencer item that would be held in your equipment slots the player could toggle between the two variants of the gun. This would function much like the ammo conversion or hatchet/flashlight conversion, the player goes into their inventory and right mouses over the item and selects "remove silencer" this then changes the item in their inventory to the non silenced version of that weapon. If actual silencer Items were added to the game there would be four, one for each weapon variant. These items could be generated by a script attached to the silenced weapon, "Remove Silencer" the item would have a script that would change a standard version of that weapon into a silenced version and then make it disapear. Animation would be the normal hunched gear animation. M9 Silencer M4CCO Silencer MP5 Silencer Bizon Silencer If the weapon itself held the script then a flag system would be needed to flag/check that the generated standard version of the weapon included a silencer so it can be changed back. This may require new/seperate versions for the four standard versions of the silenced weapons. Maybe the above is completely wrong, or this idea is a waste of time at this stage of the mod but I think this would greatly increase the utility of the silenced weapons and make them even more desirable. I also think this would be more realisitic as these weapons should function like this. Thoughts?

+1 to this idea, I think that the ammo boxes should be rare items and only be able to contain one bullet type per box. Though I imagine having multiple boxes with different ammo types would be much harder to implement as it introduces multiple variables.

And if the implementation exists for only the weapons that have silenced variants there would be no need to retexture or develop animations for anything correct? I think this would be doable and be a nice addition in game.

+1 Quadg You nailed the reasoning behind most S city shooters. Hopping is the biggest challenge, I imagine in full release there would be one central server or several geographic servers for a region that share persistance. I dont really see a fix for this at this stage in the mod though. There are several good suggestions posted though, I like the idea of no spawn zones to eliminate hopping or old school linked servers representing different geographic locations.

I think a universal solution would be harder to implement than a limited number of specific solutions, but maybe I'm wrong. I also think a universal solution would cheapen the experiance of finding a specific silencer type/weapon, as they would fastly become prevelant on most players even with a .99 percent chance of spawn much like NVG's are now.

Any other thoughts? I hate how actual ideas get washed away by requests for starter weapons or easier zombies.....

I posted a similar idea also based on prior NWN game play, I wonder OP and I played on the same servers?? ALFA? http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=21536

+1 This would really add to immersion.

Basing on weapon types would not work either as different handguns, rifles, submachine guns fire different rounds. A can for an M4 or any .223 would explode if you attached it to an AK variant rifle as their rounds are bigger. The silencers could be based on ammo type, ie a 9mm silencer works for all 9mm weapons or a Stanag silencer works for all stanag rifles. This would be to hard to implement at this stage IMO though as this is testing mechanics/design there would be no need to add all the animations/skins needed for creating silenced variants of all rifles. That would a massive job.

+1 for what your idea would accomplish but I also believe this is impossible with game mechanics/mod state. This would require way to many skins/animations let alone if it is possible with the code. The headlamp is a great work around to allow players a light source while keeping a weapon equiped. Great version of poor mans NVG's.

Silencers don't work that way they are made to specific requirements based on the weapon platform, ammo, and desired noise reduction. Ie a silencer for an M9 will not work for an M4 the .223 ammo is to fast and the barrels are different sizes so it would be impossible to attach it to the m4. Worse yet would be attaching a can for a M9 to a 1911 the bullet would blow the can up and more than likely injure you in the process. Also implementation of "universal" silencers would be much harder as it would require development of additioanl skins for each weapon. I think the origianl idea is a nice blend of realistic function and ease of implementation.

Preface: I do like the black and white transition as humanity is lost it seeems very appropriate for the setting. This does add a significant penalty to a player though as it becomes much harder to see other players from far away and at night. I disagree on the fact that murdering other players is unnatural or "un-realistic" for the setting. I also think that the problem with the bandit skins was that eventually everyone changes into them even if they are only defending themselves. IMO it is likley that anyone that survives for an extented period of time will reach your 3 murder cap, if not reach the 6 plus mark where they have black and white and the shakes. Even preserving the murder/bandit kill system legitimate conflict between players is unavoidable. This is the apocalypse, there is not enough for everyone. If two players want something it will more than likely end with one of them dead. You don't mention anything about your counts carrying over, you realize that the "Murdering Phycos" die much sooner than most "survivor" type players, this means that they will largley go unaffected by your nerfs. Their life cycle is something like this: 1. Spawn 2. Near City? Y? Go to city N? Respawn 3. Go to Firehouse find military weapon 4. Go to uber secret sniping spot that every other person goes to 5. Shoot players 6. Stay there, shoot at more players 7. Get shot in the back by someone they murdered or a vet who checks these spots 8. Start Over Clan/Group players that survive for extended periods of time will also be unaffected because they will give transfusions to other group members, a group of three would break your control patern, let alone one of the larger groups that are becoming more common. Your proposing a penalty for game play that is an esential part of the game, the conflict and tension that surround player interaction is what adds so much emotion to the game. People don't trust each other, no mechanic will make people trust each other unless PVP would be removed all together. You will always have people that would double cross you, and you will always have people who would rather just watch it all burn. This is why it is the apocalypse. Because players can respawn they will become more and more jaded until they have become the monsters they complained about when they first started playing. You are suffering from Rick to Shane syndrome, STFU and change like the rest of us. Banditry- The stand and deliver command already exists, look up your key commands in game and find "surrender" select a hot key for it. Use the command next time you meet a player... Have you ever tried to a rob a player in game? I have tried multiple times to rob people at gun point each time my intentions were not to kill the other player(s), this has never worked. Players have no incentive to live outside of their gear, all of the attchment goes to what they have found through their time played with that character. If you try to take this gear away they are back at square one, they might as well respawn it is effectively the same thing. So they will fight/run rather than give up their gear and then you have to shoot them. It doesn't matter how small their odds are they never give up. The only exception to this would maybe be players near/on the leaderboards but most of these guys are in groups or so well kitted that people would just shoot them on sight. TLDR Everyone racks up murders, thus everyone will be a "bandit" with black/white and the shakes. This is the natural state of things with direct competition for survival, *There is not enough for everyone* System does not effect short life span griefers System will not effect groups of players STFU Rick and change into Shane already Surrender command already exists. Banditry is imposibble because players are only attached to their gear not their character.

No one has any thoughts on this or is the thread lost to the endless requests for bandit skins or starter weapons....

From another players perspective your toon will seem to fall into the ground when you go prone at long ranges where the grass texture disappears. You are still visable though regardless of what skin you have on.