xximrtwoixx

+1 I think rocket has something like this in the works already.

This solution weakens the signifcance of perma death and that makes it horrible, death should suck, it should make you want to smash your computer and then go cry in closet for several days. This isn't about balancing playstyles, perma death is one of the things that makes the game unique. People would sit in a location and shoot anyone that enters, its called protecting that area, if that is where they get their supplies, or where they live, their friends are operating, or if they think you may be a threat even at a later time they will kill you. If anything perma death needs to be made more significant there should be skills or unique things you develop while playing a specific character that will be lost if they die. Let me help you think of a downside, its a game mechanic that would force you to interact with people even if thats not what gave you enjoyment from the game. People are social creatures and do want to group up, I would argue that many people do group up already they simply use meta features to do so. This same option is available for everyone so I don't see why a gamey mechanic would need to be implace to force people. I agree that bugs need to be ironed out but that will come with further development and should be a given. I also think loot rates could be adjusted but I'm sure that will also occur and know that they could be wild adjustments used to guage what happens when people have or don't have access to x,y, or z. I do think this slightly weakens the effect of perma death, but most gear isn't really that much better than the easy to get gear. I don't agree that stock piling should be made harder or removed, its not easy to use legit means to create a stock pile, even if you farm. You or your group are exposing yourself to a great amount of risk to gather gear, and you should be able to store/stockpile it. It is your reward for living a long time in game or being successfull in game your future lives become easier. Plus its the only thing to do late game other than hunt people down. If all of the ideas are gimicky game mechanics that would make dayz just like all the other crappy zombie games, or crappy mmo's then people should be able to say no suggestions have been made. There have been tons of suggestions made in the suggestions forum about nerfing bandits, pvp, weapons, perma death, and all of the other features that make this game great. There are so many that ideas that actually look at improving the game are lost to oblivion.

This is untrue, game theory applies to any type of competetion and most if not all games have some inherint type of competition in them. I agree to a point that the economic equations or the state of mind of a player while playing the game is disassociated from "reality" but I would argue that this is only the case because while gaming they are in an "alternative" reality. This alternative reality forces players to act in ways that are disassociated from reality because it shares nothing in comon with the standard normative society we now exhist in. The fact that the two realities do cross over as the player exhists in both is what makes things messy, especially in a project like Day Z where at its base level it is trying to provide a back drop where players can have authentic experiances. The seperation between the game reality and RL is less finite in this setting and some players expect normative socialized behavior because of this and are upset when they don't get it. I and many others believe that current behavior is authentic as in the game's reality normative society has been destroyed, so you get individual or group behavior as varied as the individuals you meet. This doesn't mean everything is totally random, people will always play to maximize their own return. For some that return is serious or rigid and only includes their success for others it includes "fun, entertainment, lack of boredom" etc so they take actions accordingly. A sandbox allows everyone to assemble their own formula for their return, and as DayZ is a sandbox thats what people are doing. Day Z's in game reality is made by the players, if the normative behaviour is shoot on on sight then thats what it is. If people really have an issue with it they can simply stop doing it, this is playing against their own interests but thats what standing for morals often is. You don't get a cookie when you don't break into your neighbors garage every day I don't think you should be rewarded for acting in a way you view as moral. If all these people acted in the way they advocate and there are really that many of them then maybe the normative behaviour would change. I doubt it though, without some semblance of society most people will not be diswaded from acting soley in their best interests.

Your thread is titled "simple deterence to Trigger happy COD fans and 'bandits'" and your proposal is to add a negative effect in game based on murders, based on the "problem" with kos/bandits/murder/cod kidies/shoot for lulz so yes you have an issue with pvp. This game is not falling in line with a traditional FPS, it is in a unique category based on its concept and your "new" direction from my perspective seems to be more of the same crap every other persistent game has in it. No other game has the combination of features Day Z has because main stream gamers can't handle the environment, open no rules sandbox, persistence, perma death, open pvp, and realisitc damage. I'm all for giving people ways to co-operate or other things to do than murder each other but features or content should never intentionaly hurt a play style.

I would like for some improvised weapons/items to be included in the mod, this would allow for more emergent game play and also more creative ways for us to kill each other. Noise Maker- A smoke alarm (new) either by itself or combined with some other gear, I'm open to suggestions. This would create a throwable or placeable noise maker that would create a sound audible to both players and zombies out to at least 100m. Run time of several minutes. Possibly impoved when combined with others and a back pack to amplify effect? Bomb- Combine a back pack, more than one jerry can and a flare. This would allow players to create a placeable bomb but the resource cost and the fact that it would sacrifice a pack would provide a check on its utility. The bomb should be able to be ignited from directed gun fire or via a timer when placed. Taser/Stun Gun- (This is probably somewhere else on the forum) Either variety, hit applies knock out for x seconds, I think this would allow for many interesting interactions. Electric Trap- Stun gun combined with back pack to create a trap that would kill/knockout whoever tried to loot/pick up pack. Placeable in a vehicle to apply the effect to whomever touched the vehicle. Combinable with wire fence kits to create electric fence. (In game skill/visable indication to show it is on vehicle/fence and disarmable/lootable) Door trap- Combine a grenade and whisky bottle to create a placeable that will drop a grenade when the door is opened. (Disarmable/lootable as above) Poison- Combinable with water sources and consumables. (Same detection as above maybe visable only if inspected/based on in game skill. Or make non lethal with no detection) Remote controled car- 1 or 2 inventory slots I doubt this could make the mod but in stand alone it would be sweet. Thought I had more, but I'm tired, please add any other ideas for these types of weapons/traps/items.

I did search, mainly for noise maker and didn't see anything. Some of the other were posted but most by themselves. They are items that could serve many purposes and one purpose would be trolling, do you think its not authentic that someone would set up booby traps or use the environment (infected) as a weapon against another person? The only item that I would consider specifically troll would be poison, I think it would add to the game play though both in how it could be utilized and the hightened tension it would create. I didn't say it had to be lethal it could just make someone sick, knocked out, reduce their blood to a certain amount.

OP great post, interesting read. I think game theory is the perfect explanation of what is happening, and I also believe that KOS/Banditry will keep escalating it is the most effecient method for survival and natural selection is occuring as we speak. I disagree that it will ruin the game/project though, it will simply limit the player base just as any game's gameplay limits its player base. I think people need to realize that this is a proof of concept for a game/dlc that had to be made because no studio has the balls to release a standalone or mod that features this type of gameplay. No other game has a completely open sandbox, persistence, perma death, open pvp, and realistic damage. Its an alpha of a concept really, not of a game/mod, its something that was set up as bare bones as possible to show that players would be interested. The fact that so many players were and are interested kind of f'd everything up because infrastructure has become a main focus of updates to keep the steam rolling rather than content. We are providing market research more than alpha testing IMO. As more content comes in the kos cycle will be disrupted as most players will find other things to occupy their time rather than going south to death match. It won't really ever stop though. I hope that developable skills/perks get added this will also help steer people toward specialization and grouping and add more value to an individual life later in the game when gear is stored up, this is also something Rocket has talked about. It will be more painful to lose your character though and I'm sure people will bitch even more, but thats what makes this concept great, death should suck. Also zombies are never really the focus of a zombie scenario they are the catalyst that tears down society and the ever present slow simmering threat. People acting outside the confines of society and their struggle to remain "civlized" or "people" is the main focus. Thats what we are all going through playing day z, you get to decide how much you hold on to, no one said it was easy.

I've tried using a game theory argument myself, people just ignore things that make sense. Good quote and great author.

+1 its like u made the tldr version of my earlier post... I think a loneliness meter would be gamey, as a player if you enjoy playing lone wolf your not lonely and if u dont you already are so you should already be trying to group up with players. I dont think you can make any phyco analysis type of meters, the player should be experiancing all of those emotions already. The trick is getting in content that can trigger emotional responses. Ie perma death, or as you cited blood bags. Rocket is already on this path he has referenced a skill system that will make players more valuable than only their loot. Thing is people will still be in groups already large enough so they will still murder outsiders. Hopefully alt f4 can get fixed before bases or skills though cuz im looking forward to slave labor...

There are already tangible benefits to working in a group, we dont need gamification to encourage players ro group. Instead of making a million posts bitching about gettin pvp'd make one post looking for a group. There will b zero trust with a random encounter so you have to use meta to find a group.

If you don't need tips then wtf are you complaining about, go in game and play the way that you enjoy playing. You obviously don't enjoy meeting unfriendly players or being sniped so I would surmize that you will find your play time more enjoyable by following my advice. I'd also avoid regular servers as name tagging is rampant and allows noobs to spot you no matter how well your hidden. If your not activley trying to play the game to maxamize your enjoyment then why are you hear bitching about things? If you want to meet other friendlies you have to meta game, its alpha grouping is not yet included so you will need to use the forums or chat clients to communicate prior to meeting people in game. I don't understand why people simply bitch about things instead of trying to take action, and I don't even mean actually fight the people they complain about in game I simply mean try to play in a way that would solve many of their complaints.

After reading the majority of this thread there a few things that I feel need to be pointed out to both the stop KOS/Anti PVP crowd and the Realist End of Days crowd, lets face it the douches shooting newbs with a .50 don't read the forums.... 1. This is alpha, and I don't mean it to be snide or to stop conversation. Consider the points below, - This is a mod that is only a few months past initial release it has an obscene number of players that require many of the changes to focus on infrastructure and not content. This means the mod has run out of content (Building blocks) for players that have played for a significant amount of time. As it is a military sim the best content in the game revolves around shooting people so that’s what people now do to generate their own content. - This entire concept is alpha, how many multiplayer games contain complete sandbox, persistence, perma death, open pvp, and realistic damage? There are no games like this because they generate too much emotion and frustration from players, the same reason there are a million threads and posts bitching about pvp and KOS now. This concept will not be for everyone, you will die and many of those deaths will result from pvp and in some cases there will be nothing you can do about it. Armed with only a pistol a good player is just as dangerous with a new spawn as a character that is months old. All of your play time doesn't mean shit if someone else gets the drop on you, you make a slight mistake, or your a victim of wrong place wrong time. I'm not saying quit, I'm just saying this is the game and that’s why its different from all the other crap out there. - Because this concept is alpha your not only testing the "game" your testing the concept, Rocket wants you to quit. We are market research in action, when does it get to be too much to advocate a successful stand-alone game. Some people are past the point now, fine post about it but more importantly quit playing. All of this is tracked so they know how often players are playing how many new players are joining; you are a statistic that is being used to create the hardest standalone title a studio will allow to be released. If you want the game this way feeding off of tears is only going to increase the opposition to the end product you want. - You have to turn to meta game, its alpha the grouping content is not included so you need to turn to the forums and voice chat clients instead. It’s not as clean as if everything were in game but that’s reality, eventually this stuff will be loaded into standalone or the mod, but for now deal with using meta game to meet friendlies. Bitch all you want that it is or is not realistic for KOS the "Game world" has dictated that KOS is the reality. Apparently armed total strangers meeting other armed or trying to be armed total strangers is a recipe for murder. There are enough people complaining I'm sure if you all grouped up you could easily take over a server. - It is a sandbox, this means there is *no* "way" the game is meant to be played. Its something that I see often readying posts, "These d bags don't play the way the game is meant to be played". In a 50 slot server there are 50 ways the game is meant to be played. Does this break immersion? Hell yea and it sucks sometimes too. More content will be added at some point but the sandbox game mode is part of why the game concept is so great. Its so much better than being ram rodded the same recycled crap or having to grind through hours of pointless crap to get to a certain point where you can "Play" the game. You and every other pixelated meat bag are exactly the same and have exactly the same opportunities as soon as you spawn. Its your job as a player to find enjoyment in game, and remember good o'l Sam Colt is there to make sure we're all equal. (Outside of hackers..... but like I said its alpha....) In closing people need to realize why it took humanity thousands of years to progress beyond small tribal societies, its fucking hard. Society can't be built in a day and people won't be easy to trust, choosing to go against the grain and refrain from becoming one of the monsters that now infest the land is part of the struggle your character(s) should go through. If you can avoid it and all the bonuses that come from throwing away your connections to society and humanity then good for you, I applaud you. You are in an elite group, and I hope I can find the safe haven you help construct. The knowledge that you’re not some degenerate scum bag is your reward, not much I know but in reality that’s really all you'd get, would probably help you sleep. And to all the Bandits/KOS people think back to the first time you got hunted down, for me it was the second time I played, I walked out of house and someone opened up with a mac on me. I ran back in and tried to talk to him in direct with no response, after 15 minutes I finally left and he was still there. After the brass settled I was dead and I'm pretty sure he was on his way, but a small part of me died right then. Think back to the first time you were murdered and know that’s how a lot of these new players feel, they may be gone in a month but it’s not really doing any good to try and force them out. It will only give a studio more ammo that the game should be pussified for a mass market

It should be abused, do you think people left there doors unlocked when crazy infected started running around? Like you said anyone could still gain entry most people have a weapon of some sort to damage the door. I'm for avoiding as many things that give specific advantages as possible, equality between fresh and veteran characters is part of why this game is interesting. Also how are you locking an exterior door with the lock or chain you found? I understand a gate, but I don't really get how it would help you with an exterior door. As far as destroyed v unlocked I don't think it really matters, if you shoot a door handle out of a door it isn't destroyed but its still unlocked. Car alarms are fine and dandy but that isn't going to stop someone stealing the car and most cars are stowed so far away from towns that it wouldn't matter. Also enabling the alarm would require the key fab, so unless that car's original keys are found and its not hotwired the car alarm would be disabled. If the current owner is the second owner and they hotwired the car why would the car alarm still be working? Do you see where I am going with this, there are to many things that *should* be implemented for vehicle security to even bother implementing vehicle security. I think with adding things to the game you can get caught in a spiral of required content when your trying to meet so many varried demands, ie: authenticity, player demand, playability, balance, etc. Keep it simple, thats I think and I think all doors having the option to lock from the inside and be opened by taking damage from the outside is the simplest way to implement security.

I would really like to see this in game, but I think it should simply be added to the scroll wheel for all operational doors, if you are on the inside of a door you should be able to lock that door while players on the outside can not. When door takes X amount of damage it is auto unlocked, that way players and zombies can unlock the door and players aren't forced to use a specific item they are free to do what they want. I'm not sure if this would be easier to implement, but it does not include as much new content and I'm all for that, the bare minimum is usually best. The above wouldn't work for cars and including any type of lock for cars isn't really authentic IMO as they should be so easily overcome that it would be a waste to add. If the was ever hotwired you couldn't lock the steering, locked sterring can be overcome anyway, locking doors is pointless as there are windows. I thought that boobie traps for use on a car, or other security features like wheel locks or tire locks would be cool. But after trying to shoot out a tire on my car always before logging out I discovered that people will just blow up your vehicle if they can't take it. The only defense for vehicles as I see it is to provide options for hiding them better, ie cammo net or some type of tent a player can setup big enough to hide the vehicle. The other option would be to allow players to store vehicles in their bases this would be down the road but I think its something that should be looked into and would allow players a way to store vehicles with less threat.

+1 to rimfire, and +1 to more civilian weapons in general.

I suggest if you don't want to deal with pvp then avoid areas where you will encounter pvp, while your at it avoid gear that other players would kill you for. This means avoiding new players as they have no gear so yours is always better, and it means avoiding the hot zones in the north. Simple enough huh? While your at it try and rob someone in game without killing them first, see how it works out and then come back and complain about KOS.

After reading through a small percentage of the thousands of posts bitching about pvp its not so suprising that major studios never incorporate both PVP and perma death. Most don't even touch perma death as it upsets their precious player base who would rather spend 100 hours grinding through crap lvld content being told how they should take each step. Oblivious to the concept that they have choices or that their choices should have an effect on their character. This makes me appreciate what Day Z is so much more, all I hope is that rocket doesn't cave in to outside pressure. Death is supposed to suck, you died, thats what makes any type of perma death setting so great. Thats where all the tension comes from and its why all of these people are so butt hurt. The penalty as it is now is fairly weak, it doesn't even take long to get geared up again.I can't wait for the shit show that will follow in game skills or any other content that will get people more attached to their characters, thats when the real QQ will start. This is also what will push Day Z into a whole other realm, hours or weeks can be ripped away with a few rounds from the freshest noob. Face it, you will die playing this game, it doesn't suck any more if its a sniper you didn't see or a bunch of infected. *You* made the mistake that got you killed either way, do you really expect an armed total stranger to be friendly to another armed total stranger when they have 1-5 seconds that determines if they live or die? Nevermind the fact that your in direct competition for resources and that a player's kit equates to all the time they spent looting and the risks that it entailed. If you want friendly encounters you will have to use meta game, I think its rather authentic. Only an idiot trusts some random person they just met, meta game gives you chance to feel out the other party long before you meet and thats the way a real survivor would handle contacts. Maybe some day these things will be in game until then you have the resources, use them and stfu.

I like the fact that you refer to them as both infected and zombies in the same sentence. What rocket says, News to me that the infection somehow ruins their sight, I hope this isn't the case, they should be able to see you if you can see them. The environment needs to be as punishing as possible IMO as this will provide a reason for people to seek out and befriend other people.

Doesn't matter what posters say or what you agree with or even think, listen to what the devs say and to what they draw inspiration from or are trying to emulate. They are living breathing infected people, think 28 days later or a modified rabies virus. They see, hear, and move at least as well as you do if not better. This is an authentic look at a "zombie" scenario free of magic like dead people rising from the grave. I'm not going to argue anymore as I'm right and thats the end of the story, look up Rocket's posts/interviews instead of disagreeing with me. As for Op's Idea, I think more thought would need to go into the infected and how they actually detect non infected, I'm not sure your suggestion would really fit into the narrative currently.

I have no problem with PVP anywhere, I shoot anyone I feel threatened by or anyone who I think may have something I can upgrade my kit with. I do not try to shoot noobs or unarmed players though, I try to use direct to tell them to move on, or lay down while I move away the problem is people don't listen and instead try to find a gun in an area someone with a gun just looted. Most of the time its your stupidity that gets you killed IMO. Also I think its impossible to actually rob people, even when you have the drop on them no one I've encountered has surrendered they either run or try to shoot, so I've given up on this tactic and now just shoot someone if they have something I want/need.

Pay: One time transaction, open to cosmetic item stores, but I think that even going down that path will lead to pay to win as the revenue potential would greatly increase. Developed: Studio developed, I don't see how this can be avoided because of your relationship with BI, if not them then another studio who can pay for all the lawyers you will need. I think you have a better chance of keeping your vision with BI than other main stream studios who would want to expand the target player base. Servers: Studio or officail, This is the most important aspect I think, If you want to keep the "one world" game world, and a perma death setting that hopefully estabilishes a harsh death penalty and much of the game play is focused on resource gathering having the community in charge of hosting will be a disaster. Add to that the fact that the less secure the code is the easier it will be for hackers and you have the current issues on a release people paid for. If you need capital or have crazy lawyer fees go to kick starter, I also think that you should strike while the iron is hot pretty soon something else will come along and draw attention away from dayz so the sooner you have a release, even if just a more polished alpha, ala minecraft the better it will be for the whole project.

Infected not zombies....

Welcome to WROL, the state of nature is a bitch. And it is complete bs to say you don't already get jack for helping other players, yes you lose your gear/supplies but you should be gaining an ally, from my experience this ally will usually last beyond one in game death and because of this is much more valuable than any gear. Thus there is already an inherent balance to pvp in game, get their loot or their co-operation, is that person alive worth more than what they have on them. I don't disagree that there is little to no trust left in the player base and this is obviously factored into the decision they make when deciding to pull the trigger, it simply means there is less value attributed to their co-operation (maybe negative even). The player on the other side also makes the same economic decision about you, is your co-operation worth more than your gear? I know that when I'm desperate, like I need a transfusion I will take more risks because someone's co-operation is worth more than their gear then. All "friendly" players are employing a survival strategy just as all "bandit/KOS" players are employing a strategy; I think that you can easily tell what strategy is more successful as it has been widely adopted by other players. Again this is the state of nature, this is evolution in action, the weak and unsuccessful are eliminated. Don't dismiss this for metaphorical crap, it is what is really happening, this is a survival game and as everyone tries to maximize their chances of survival they mimic evolution. But because its a game and people can respawn all lambs will eventually become lions. That gets us to where we are now, a landscape of carnivores who have eaten all the sheep and are forced to turn to cannibalism. I'm not a scientist but this doesn't sound like a promising outlook for survival. Rocket could address this by adding content that allows sheep to be sheep or adding in mobs to act as sheep, but I think he realizes that AI cheapens the experience and that sheep will always complain when their being eaten. TLDR: All Ricks will become Shanes

The fact that even a semi perma death setting makes people think that they will generate more tears/rage by killing you should not be lost in the conversation. Add in the fact that it usually does generate more tears/rage and you end up with a million threads like this and games that never include perma death. I personally can't wait for skills to be introduced, or whatever other features players will be able to build up over their characters life span, thats when the real tears will start. I bet after the first report of some mommy's basement living troll put'n one through the roof of their mouth after their character gets killed rocket will be forced to change his concept, but I hope he sticks to his guns until then.

I think people confuse griefers and bandits/kos/conflict. I think the percentage of people actually griefing (shooting on the actual coast, or shooting newbs in cherno/elect) is pretty low, I'm not saying that violence is low just people griefing is lower than people think. I think you just have to accept it, its the end of the world some people are going to go off the rocker. KOS is another matter though I think it can be explained by looking at the scenarios that lead to it. KOS is a product of the game and the scenarios players find themselves in. It will not go away, but rejoice as there is an easy alternative already in place that does not require gamification or magic skins, you simply choose to play the game in the way that will result in the most fun for you. And I will throw in some free advice.... As i'm not sure what game all of the nerf bandits/kos sight people are playing, I will explain the scenarios & game play most people find themselves in. Even if your playing lone wolf a characters life cycle should resemble something like this: 1. Spawn on the beach 2. Go into a major city (or to Balota) 3. Loot all necessary survival equipment and medical equipment (If at balota find a gun and wait for someone that will have all survival equipment) 4. Leave Coast 5. Hit deerstands on way to Northern Location 6. Loot Stary, NW, Berizino for military equipment 7. Find tents/vehicles 8. Make a camp 9. Loot other peoples camps 10. At any place in timeline above locate and loot helo crashes 11. Farm any location included in stage 6 and horde gear for your eventual death. If you look at the life cycle you see that at points 3, 6, 9, and 10 you are in direct competition for resources with other players that are at a similar stage in their characters life cycle. This is why people shoot each other in these locations. You decided to go to the fire station first so you have a primary, they went to church so they have a secondary and back pack, you both need/want each others gear so you shoot each other. I think 90% of pvp is centered around conflict or precieved conflict over resources. Precieved conflict equates to someone seeing you were they want to loot. Leet Advice: Most "vet" or experianced players spend 80% of their time at the above locations listed in stage 6, as this is where they will have a chance at the best gear or best equiped players. If you don't want to be shot then avoid these areas. Once you get past stage 7 above you have invested a fair amount of time and are well geared, this is the second cause of shoot on sight, you now know that you are a walking target/safe deposit box. People want your gear,cars,tents, etc. So you shoot anyone you see as this is the safest solution. This is just as it would be IRL, trusting someone you don't know has inherent risks and most players/groups that far along have more to lose than gain by being friendly. This can be avoided to a degree, simply avoid equipment that you know other people would kill you for. IMO there's nothing wrong with the above, or the current KOS play style people use. I think it can be fairly logically explained when you look at the scenarios that occur, and I think its actually fairly authentic. For all the people that don't like it, there is even a simple solution, just *avoid* the areas described above, and don't pick up gear people would kill to have. There is no need to add anything to the game, or change things to make it less authentic, players simply need to actually play the game the way that maximizes their enjoyment. If you don't want to be shot in the face then avoid the areas, players, and reasons that get you shot in the face. This solution is available to you because the game is a sandbox, you can live like a rat and avoid all contact with other players, you can be a civilian that avoids conflict, or a survivor doing whatever it takes to thrive instead of survive. TLDR: Before you QQ about bandit skins or shoot on sight ask yourself the following questions when in game and you are thinking about going to a location or you see a player: 1. Does highend loot spawn here? // Does the player have high end loot? 2. Do other players need/want to come to this location? // Do other players need/want this item? 3. Is this location on the way to a high end location? 4. Does this item make me feel like a badass? If the answer is yes to any of the above avoid that location/item and understand that the other player will murder you.