xximrtwoixx

There is already a bandit uniform, Military Weapons, Giant Back Pack NVGs Friends Vehicles If you see players with the above they will kill you, them having a hood on doesn't make a difference. Everyone will become a bandit because everyone needs to defend themselves, unless you have a designated killer in your group.

Starting weapon means that the game is easier, yes easier is subjective and does not represent a fixed point for every player. Easier is the opposite of harder, so I am against this. No concessions to casuals, noobs, crybabies, studios, economic success, playability. A starting weapon also reduces the penalty for death in game as you would be starting with a weapon, this is another reason why I am against this, death should suck and that means no kit on new spawns.

alot of people would carry it in their pack rather than a second primary weapon, even at 2 slots each in back pack or inventory you would be able to fit all of the tools on you if half were on the tool belt. Also I think a skill system will always be better than using inventory items to impart skills because those skills can't be replaced when you die. With the above system your buddy/group can just guard your body (skils) or they can simply pick them up for themselves. Both of wich defeat the purpose of a perma death game, Death is supposed to suck. Skills drive this point home, and will also introduce speacilization that generates grouping. Skills>Items

I still don't think it would, one hour isn't enough of a penalty for people to lose, especailly if you have all your gear stashed and a group. There will be people killing themselves as soon as they don't get the "perk" or whatever you want to call it. An hour may be enough to deter some people from doing it but I think this would be a small percentage. I think players should simply have the ability to make their character however they want if skills are going to be introduced, the best way to do this is with a point buy type of system, values can be assigned to skills/increases and everyone is at the same place to start and there is no reward for people willing to waste countless hours.

@Op I think your added details do a better job of explaining things. In the end I still don't like any "mechanic" that would encourage players to take gamey actions like injuring themselves or each other to influence some intangible counter that represents something that is, to me, completely disassiociated from the rest of the game world. Also I was serious when I asked you if you believe players/groups defending areas of control is outside the spirit of this game? Your mechanic directly punishes PVP, even after you say the total numbers being influenced are huge, pvp is still being counted and punished. I do agree that the enviornement needs to be dynamic at some level, and that areas of control should be established by players and Z number should also be able to be reduced. I simply think that a player or groups direct actions should influence this for them real time rather than attempt to set up some serverwide initiative via counters. I want to be concerned about my friends, our saftey, our supplies, etc. not worry about a metaphysical counter, if the counter was actual Z's left in the area I may be interested though. I think if you want a mechanic that enhances the world by allowing persistance to actions, ie clearing towns/safe zones then Z management and building are way more important than tracking humanity. The tangible things like z's, safe houses, loot, food, water are all things that could be expanded upon to give players both a more immersive and dynamic experiance. Also there is no motivation to take gamey actions in this type of system. Also I think that without some semblance of immediate impact or positive gain players will have no motivation to take friendly actions, so they will continue to KOS and thus every area will become a hostile only area at max Z's. To me its alot of wasted effort to get exactly where we are now.

Won't work, people would simply respawn over and over again untiil they have one of the above special spawns. Sysetems/mechanics should be designed to eliminate the opportunity to min/max otherswise its all that players will do.

This is basically ripped right out of Day by Day Armageddon a great book that I would highly recomend to anyone that likes zombies or DayZ. Also this doesn't work so great with the fact that Z's are infected living people, but a little bit of suspended reality could help to make the game alot harder. IRL governements would not completly collapse right away in this type of scenario and they would also turn to desperate measures in a last ditch effort to control/contain an outbreak. I think that option would be nuclear deployment on native soil. Major population areas would be targeted in an effort to reduce the number of opposition and contain the outbreak. I don't think these locations should really be in the game as they would be to irradiated to enter or scavenge from and the huge number of Z's there would make it a suicide mission anway, so I'm not saying that irradiated major cities should be included in the map or even irradiated loactions at all. Some infected that are irradiated could be included though, as some would survive the strike and then migrate out of the location to look for food. These infected could have any manner of special attributes due to this irradiation, I don't want to get extreme or gimmicky though. I think a poison effect, increased strength/speed, slower decomposition, or better path finding. More subtle ways that would increase their fear factor without resorting to mutant type of things. Let me know your thoughts or expand on the idea.

You only get scarcity if its truly nil, even at .01% I bet I could get that item IG within an hour. Even with helicopter crash sites not respawning gear you will get min max by admins were they reset the server to generate the loot, or you wierdo's like people in my crew who know when servers have auto restarts just so they can farm helicopters. One farming trip to NW barracks, and you will have multiples of nearly every item that has a current chance to spawn near .01.

Really they're called shot but who wants to be a D-bag... Based on the damage values and the fact that SD bullets are silenced IG even in non SD gun I think most values in the arma engine come from the bullets and have nothing to do with the weapon that is being used. I imagine its the same way for ARMAIII also as it seems like a fundemental basis for code that would not be changed. This inherently messes things up for different weapon platforms that are designed to get more out of a given round, especially if a better ammo system were incorporated, ie break down magazines of the same bullets to fill others. This would not allow a dev to have different "bullets" that are IRL the same but different IG because of the platform they are going into. IE a 9mm for MP5 that does 1500 damage compared to the 9mm in an M9 that does 900 damage. I would rather have a realistic ammo system that allows me to scavenge ammo and gives value to weapons with common ammo rather than exacting damage across weapon platforms. Also my opinion IRL is that if you don't/can't shoot a deer with it then you really don't want to use it to shoot people. 7.62x51 just cuz 6.8 would be to hard to find after shtf.

No takers....

I don't mean the rate would be unreasonable, even without a max cap I'm all for as many zombies as rocket can fit in without crashing the servers or making me have a 10k computer. What I mean is that an area with loot, especially good loot will be looted constantly, even if this a "low" increase as you marked it this steady trickle will make all lootable areas into "hostile" zones and those with good loot probably always at the max cap for Z's. I also think that a friendly zone or zone people try to turn friendly will be overcome by this, as more players will go there because there is less risk from bandits/Z's so there will be more looting. I think that the resources used to run all the calculations your mechanic would require could instead just be used to have more z's around good loot locations, would probably use less resources. How to min/max your mechanic- Me and my bandit buddies get a makorav and bunch of ammo and a bunch of blood bags(One hospital run could get you at least 10) we then go into the zone and shoot each other in the leg and heal each other over and over until the zone is changed to friendly and Z's are reduced. We then loot to our hearts content. If there is a hospital in the zone we could just sit at it and do it there, while other people in the clan guard/shoot any incoming players. As both are the "High" actions in the system I can guarantee that I can shoot my friend and give him a blood transfusion faster than additional players come into the zone. Thus it will be a friendly zone but filled with pk bandits, thus defeating the entire purpose for the mechanics introduction. This could also be done with food just at a slower rate, probably what we would do while we waited for more blood bags to spawn. Do you see how gamey this makes things be? Players will always min/max everything, maybe not all players but I would say a majority will, this why KOS is so prevelent because players are maximizing their chance for success (Those that aren't griefers I mean). What I meant about immersion: I don't think the constant threat or chance to lose what you've worked for is out of place, and I agree that no area should be completely safe. Your mechanic would directly punish people for PVP, ie defending their area. If a group has been working hard to reduce the number of Z's in an area and then needs to defend their area from another player let alone another group they have just pissed away their work by taking actions that perfectly fit into what they were doing, establishing a zone of control for their group. This makes the mechanic gamey to me, and just another nerf to pvp. "Clear most of the Z's, shoot a trespasser and suddenly there are tons of Z's spawning on you." Do you think players defending their area of control from other players is outside the theme and feel of this game?

If by fuck you up you mean tear your leg off then yes that would probably happen.

I think the system in place is to blame for "scarcity" or lack there of. Any mechanic that generates items especially if at fixed intervals will be min/maxed by players, in such a system there is no true scarcity even though that is what one would believe is represented by a low spawn chance. A low spawn chance merely means that the time investment for a given item is greater than that of other items, not that the item is or is not available. Players min/max these systems by looting known high yeild areas and farming, and these factors will always be available if the current loot system is carried over. Some players resort to duping/hacking because the amount of time they are willing to dedicate is even less than those who farm, though these actions should be able to be patched out at some point. I think that the entire loot system should be overhauled, and I assume that it will be. Real scarcity can only be implemented if the percent to spawn is factored off of the percent actually owned and not a fixed number. In this type of system when .05% of players have a rare item that is capped at .05% or it is in a players persistent storage that item will no longer spawn in any location/server. Rarity can thus be set at a fixed value, but the actual chance to spawn would always be variable with a chance that it would be 0. Some items could be selected to not have hard caps in such a system, like a makorov, civilian sporting guns, food, or survival equipment. I would hope near everything has a hard cap though as I think this would make the game both more difficult and provide an incent for more meta gaming like trade as items truly would be finite.

Moved to suggestions thread, posted in wrong place like a noob http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/58299-irradiated-zombies/

@BrettHarrenton DayZ doesn't have to take place in the same exact conditions/scenario as the Arma Chern campaign, I don't understand your reasnoning other than trying to Troll like your some super Arma hipster.

Can't shoot children, it would screw up the rating same as eating people. I do think women should be added but different skins for same thing should be very low on priority list right now.

I think the answer to Z's as player flags is increasing the distance that triggers/removes spawns, I think after optimization or via an optimized standalone engine this would deff be possible.

Here are some issues I thought of looking at OP's Idea, Elements of the game world can not persist in an area without players being around it puts to much strain on servers and increases lag for everyone and would also limit your ability to add other cool features that could be using that computing power. Also tracking all of these interactions to the client and to regions would also use up alot of resources that I think would be better utilized in other ways. If realtime was not used but rather a counting system for a region you run into issues like bandit skins did, over time any areas with loot spawns will become "hostile" areas that have a high number of Z's simply because people go there for gear. Also this is where conflict over gear would occur therefore increasing the hostility of the area even more. Even "friendly" areas would suffer from this I think if things worked as you intended, more friendly players use friendly zones as bases of operation. If things still spawned in these areas the sheer number of people that would be in them looting could possibly overcome the "friendly" actions. Immersion Issue: What would happen if a large group locked down a key area like NW airfield they could be a "Bandit" group but simply use the elements available in your suggestion to spam the area into a friendly zone. I do think taking over an area should be incorporated, but if after you do so and then defend your area from another player I'm not sure that it should then bring back all of the Z's you worked so hard to eliminate. I think that skills and specialization are a better option to discourage KOS, and that "Switches" within small areas that push out Z spawns/Stop them and loot spawns would work better for clearing areas.

Is that for each pellet individually?

I always think that mechanics that strive to provide an authentic take on reality are better than arbitrary nerfs or removal of weapons. Example AS50/M107 is huge, heavy, and deadly IRL in game its simply deadly there is nothing there to simulate the drawbacks of using the weapon system that IRL keep it reserved for situational usage. This would be best addressed via encumbrance and an authentic representation of pack/gear storage. Carrying this weapon around should make you slower, much slower. You should not be able to store it fully assembled in your pack or in a vehicle. You should not be able to enter a vehicle with the weapon equiped and you should not be able to fire it from a non set position and expect any type of accuracy due to its weight. These sub systems like inventory management and encumbrance aren't flashy like weapons/vehicles etc, but they are where you turn to provide balance not nerfs, gamey mechanics, or arbitrary removal. There is a reason IRL that the M14 or M24/700 is used against personel targets and this could be replicated via mechancis. I am for a skill system for the mod and I do think it should include fire arms, but I don't think it should effect your aim, that is *Your* skill and should not be affected or nerfed by a system. Skills should be point buy so you can make your character exactly what you want. Fire arm skills should again revolve around the subsystems or actions that go into using the weapon like reloading, identifying ammunition for your gun, deploying/readying your gun, recovering from jams if they were incorporated, cleaning/maintaining, repairing etc. If you give someone a weapon they will figure out how to get it off saftey, fire the weapon, and reload the weapon. They may not be *fast* and this is what can be simulated with skills, just as a lack of cartridge knowledge could be simulated, but its the players skill that decides if when the gun goes boom the target goes down.

Watch the vid on Cnn of the cop getting shot 12 times, its on his dash cam, he was still alive just after. If he didn't feel pain or have any sense of self preservation he could have maybe kept going (like a Z). I agree about the Z's not being models with body armor but I think this is bugged and doesn't actually work, at least some liar said that in a post. So every model is considered being armoured by the engine. I have not tested in editor though, would be interested to know results though.

I do agree as I stated that 5.56 is effective within a range window, I think its >100 <200 you say 300. I think 5.45 v 5.56 is also debated, the hollow cavity in 5.45 is proven to generate tumble, usually 2 full rotations within the confines of the body, the second slower tumble generating the the permenent exit wound usually. I also agree that when 5.56 fractures it increases the damage deliverd, but you can't depend on this reliably. Also the most common cartridge actually carried is the M995 AP round, and this has generated countless stories and complaints against the round because no fragment means a clean exit and an opponent that is still able to shoot back. Also this "fracturing" limits the rounds ability to penetrate targets such as Windshield glass, body panels, walls, etc. and still deliver energy to the target. This in turn makes the round less effective on the battlefield and thats what really counts not a bunch of ballistics or gel tests. I am also not saying any bullet isn't deadly or capable of delivering wounds/damage that would kill or incapacitate someone. I am simply saying that 5.56 is not the end all be all of rounds as Redshift made it out to be. I don't know what you read but from what I've read, watched, or heard alot of SF have switched to using 6.8 or 6.5 they function better suppressed and offer better balistics on the 10" to 14" barreled M4's they use. They also carry energy much better than a 5.56 and because their BC is better than a 7.62 they almost rival it at range. I don't really consider them 'boutique' or wild cats any more as they are both SAAMI certified rounds, as this has recently happened it is the first step toward mass production/usage. I don't think that because two guns that will never replace the black rifle are not made to accept a round ootb really means anything. The beauty of both the 6.8 and 6.5 is that conversion from a 5.56 rifle is fairly easy. I do agree that the military has addressed issues with 5.56 in open terrain by equiping rifles chambered in 7.62 thats why I said it. This is more or less a stop gap, changing standard rounds accross all branches would likely only occur if all NATO countries were on board and frankly there is to much money and infrastructure around current equipment that this may never change. This doesn't mean SF or other small units won't be equiped with non standard equipment, or develop their own standard equipment. And here is something about the M855A1. (Gun Rag!!) http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/07/m855a1-should-it-be-the-new-round-for-soldiers-and-marines/ Personally when SHTF I will have my AR10 (.308/7.62) because that is the round that will put people down, there is a reason you can't/don't hunt with .223/5.56, because it doesn't knock things down. Its kind of messed up to say but look at CO shooting how many wounded lived there, largley due to heroic efforts and expertise displayed by first responders, if that guy had an ar10 instead of 15 it would have been alot worse.

Agree that the guns are weak, but I don't know enough about how the engine works to calculate damage to really offer a suggestion on fixing it. I think that better hit boxes need to be implemented, ie multiplyers for damage in critical areas. I think part of the problem comes from the fact that ARMA is set up to simulate with body armor and also to represent someone being "Out of the fight" ie injured to the point they are no longer a threat not simply dead. This means alot goes into making a system that tries to better simulate actual death, loss of blood, etc. I think this is why certain rounds do damage the way they do, or at least thats what BI/Arma forums say, I think its kind of shocking all the nerfs were to the 1st tier type of weapons in dayz though also. I will try to expalin what I mean below. For Example: Slugs and pellets these are rounds that are devastating within their range to unarmored targets but if the target has body armor not so much as they are larger diamter and slower moving much like .45 acp. Slower/bigger means more knockdown but less penetration. Most handgun rounds simply do not have enough powder to generate sufficient speed to overcome their mass, thus they are ineffective against body armour. Look up the FN57 if you want to drool over something being included in the game. .223/5.56/Stanag rounds are very effective against body armor as they are small/fast/and have a solid heavy metal core (Nato rounds). They are designed to penetrate armour and after losing much of their velocity via the armour they "tumble" and cause excesive wounds. These wounds are a plus on the battlefield as they remove multiple soldiers rather than just the one that was killed. These same characteristics make the 5.56 not so great against unarmored targets or targets at close range because the bullet is small/fast and has little to no knockdown power. Opposite this is the ak74's 5.45x39, the 5.45s standard round is a JHP (Jacketed hollow point, empty cavity inside) rather than heavy core this means it is much less effective against armour (Reason for Nerf) but is really much more effective against unarmored targets. It is known to take off whole limbs because of the massive expansion/tumble/cuts it makes. Because Arma focuses on military play these types of considerations don't really matter all player characters wear armour, and you don't make content for crazy outliers. Also trying to simulate all of this accuratley in a system that includes armour and no armour wearing PC's sounds nightmarish to me. I hope the DayZ dev's are up to it though, and I hope that they include different types of rounds for guns that actually work (See SD in non SD gun). It would be sweet to have JHP/FMJ/AP/SD ammo and body armour that would make this a neccessity. All this said it should and I think does suck to get shot in game, I'm sure OP killed the other guy in his shoot out. I think thats fairly realisitic that both parties rarely make it out of a blind CQB encounter.

OP your great epic story sounded like pretty standard game play to me. You've made half a dozen threads bitching about KOS, Bandits, DM, etc but it doesn't sound like your experiance in game has been that bad. Your reasoning, "Because there are countless enemies against me" therefore "I will become an enemy to everyone" or "Since I'm butt hurt I will try to make others butt hurt" is exactly what your complaining about. Because you, and everyone else that wants a fundemental change in game play, are weak, give up, and would rather make a post complaining than a post looking for others to group up with "Bad guys" will always win. You don't get a cookie or pat on the head for playing the game the way you want, there is no arbitrary bs reward for anything in this game. If you want something you work for it and expose yourself to the risks associated with your actions. Being "Good", living by a moral code, or acting with principle are not easy or rewarding. There is a reason its called being selfless, if you want play that character sweet but STFU about whats against you, you are the one deciding to play that way.

I'd be interested to see you run that for shotgun slugs/pellets 00 buck combat loads are about the same as .40 cal bullets I do believe.