GodOfGrain

Systems like this - in the end - are always exploitable to some degree. No way around this, you are right. But I belieVe it won't be a big deal in DayZ. Three reasons: Permenant death - those grinders will have a hard life ... working hard for this extra XP and then die would feel terrible Possible counters - Running around to gain stamina? Increase food and thirst rate in a scenario of scare resources or add sound to "chopping wood" so it's a danger to do this for a longer peroid of time or all resources are really scare, e.g. bloodbags, so giving 10 bloodbags for exp wouldn't be possible Low reward - The system only adresses survival skills. You don't need this stuff to compete in combat.

you are right, regarding long term motivation a skill system is not more than an element. "More stuff to do" is much more important here. I think the key importance of a skill system is to support identification with the character. And here I am sure it will affect a lot. Those skills you could obtain over time are not game changing, but important nonetheless. Especially if you think about negative points. E.g. you are getting shot in the leg. The system allows to simulate these effects through a lower running speed for example. Imagine this situation, although my chracter would be crippled more or less, I would try to keep him alive, because now this character is indeed unique and has a history.

I think we can all agree that it is prefarable to have something based on real skill rather than a "skill". Like flying a helicopter in the take-one-helicopter engine, great example! Where it is possible, introduce stuff like that. @ Weap0n Where we touch things like being a medic; it will hardly be based on a real skill. The SA-desease mechanics will be more complicated, but it will just takes weeks until you can read everthing essential on a wiki. Not everything can be simulted to a degree where real skill matters. And - and here I repeat myself - a skill system remains a very good way to adress the life=low-value issue, as progress is bound to a specific character.

Poll has now been added to the discussion. The more I have discussed this idea with you guys the more I am persuaded that this could be a good way for the future development. I hope we can keep the discussion going and get much support for this idea, so Rocket will have a look at this at some point of time. Thanks for your participation in the vote.

indeed the hero skin + in running speed shows that the devs might want to touch the area of skill development. Furthermore, in one interview half a year a go Rocket stated that they might go into that direction in the future.

yea, made a thread about things like this some time ago There need to be more peaceful methods of interaction. If all we have are guns, all we can do together is shoot each other badminton would fit the scenario i guess

Some examples, most of em mentioned already in the first post: - Speed of chopping wood reduced from 3 mins to 1.5 - Applying blood bag: 15% chance of infection for patient vs 3% - Reparing a car engine: 60 % success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 10% chance that car gets further damaged --> 95 % success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 2% chance that car gets further damaged - Reparing a heli engine: 30% success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 40% chance that heli gets further damaged --> 85 % success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 5% chance that heli gets further damaged - Stamina: Runs 5% faster. Not noticable indeed. - Sprinting: Can sprint 13 secs insteed of 10. Could sprint 20% faster - Carrying: Could carry 20% more weight - Better chance to light a fire - Better chances to light a fire while raining and sooo on The skills are effective as you see. But as I said I wouldn't care if someone chops wood for hours, because those skills don't make him harder to see, more difficult to hit or anything. So when I encounter someone on the map it is the same situation as today.

I have no fucking problem if someone wants to jog around Green mountain the whole evening. Let him get his points for that :) It doesn't affect me... I can kill him as easily as before. Furthermore, in the proper framework it could be made hard to "train" skills. If running and other actions like chopping wood require more food / water in a scarce world, it would be unwise to do it. Quite sure most parts could be covered in this or other ways.

There is some truth in it that such a system has something of the word "gamey". Although this can be limited to a large degree, as joe_mcentire has put it: My belief is, we don't need a skill system for the sake of it, but so solve a serious problem: No value of one's own life. (Which is central for immersion in my pov and has distinct implications for the amount of PvP which is going on) In the example you have put up: Bambi kills me, one of my 4 colleagues kills the bambi and collect my stuff. Underground bases will introduce even better possibilities to hoard weapons, which will increase this problem.

Thank you all for your replies so far. I want to invite you to have a 2nd look at my first post. It was just edited quite a bit to further elaborate my idea. (and perhaps I managed to shorten it by a couple of lines, not sure ^^)

I don't know where people get this thought from, that's not logical. As you died yourself you have had the best information whether you had an infection or not. Lets say 90%-95% of the times you did not have one. You go back and get your gear, or your teammates stash them.

In a perfect game it would be like this. But that just won't happen. It would take too much effort to simulate all these activities. The solution game industry is taking: mini games. Aka Deus Ex: Human Revolution; This hacking stuff. Terrible... What a waste of time and argh no. Noone can argue for minigames and say at the same time that skill system wouldn't fit to DayZ.

The problem today - we don't care if we die or not after 2 months of playing. Some people might do, but the game design says: It does not matter. A skill system has one unique advantage over progression by items: It is bound to the character. This "no reason to stay alive" is indeed a problem. It allows players to do their "kill-kill-die-get stuff back- kill- kill" thing That's the prime area a skill system could adress. As you said, skills as an element of long term motivation are not necessary, there are alternative ways to keep us occupied. I still like it though, I can imagine myself with long beard... a bit slow in some things from the multiple gun wounds I suffered in my life... but I get my fire up in heavy rain, and gut any animal in seconds. Yea, that's a battle-hardened survivor... And I'd hate to see him go :D

Most of you guys on the 2nd page missed my point :)

You haven't read my posts properly. The reasons are threefold: Adress long term motivation, the abundance of PvP and the low consequence of death. It was also stated shooting skills will remain the same all the time. There wouldn't be a single firefight where you loose and think; oh damn, he was high level. Areas of effect: Medical / Technical / Carrying stuff / Stamina and special areas like chopping wood, gutting animals and that stuff. It may save your life though if you can light your fire with 1 match instead of 3 or have an experienced mate in medicals who won't infect you giving a blood transfusion. That's stuff experienced characters just do better than people just waking up on the coast... Some people won't like it of course... you can't run around, kill, kill, die, get your stuff back, kill kill... well, you can, but other people who stay alive for a long period of time will have their advantages.

Perhaps you have played the round-based strategy Jagged Alliance 2? That's roughly what I have in mind. It is really complex and I haven't understood its mechanics after hundrets of hours playing. For example suddly your character gained a point dexterity after opening a door. What? That means that the systems of JA2 was collecting data for every and such action... and always a very small amount. Also the effect of skills in JA2: If you perform an action, e.g. defusing a mine, it would calculate a result based on several character values. (explosive skills, dexterity, experience, perhaps even more). What I want to say: Both the way you gain experience in things and how this progress effects your actions should be a complex matter. Than you don't have this gimiky feeling. A second important thing is: Everything should take quite a bit of time. You want to chop wood for 2 hours straight? Hell, noone will stop you... And you will gain in strength and other skills... But these two hours of work will just result in .... +5% from your starting value to max. And now just add a sound hearable by other players and someone will come and help you chopping, in some way or the other. I see the player naturally improve over time, in very small instances.

This complexity is why we love DayZ I suppose. Well written by the way ;) But the skill system would adress major issues: long term motivation / abundance of PvP / little consequence of death. And all this beauty of DayZ you described would still remain untouched and of prime importance. No +20% carrying would replace tactical awareness. I'd also not touch shooting skills with the skill system...

This thread inspired me to write a concept of a DayZ Skill System. If you wanna take a look, follow this link: http://dayzmod.com/f...system-in-dayz/

Good point. Although DayZ Devs and the community do not care about whiners, but having this "level playing field" is actually something good. But perhaps it is all a question to which degree the system influences the player. I don't imagine a skill system where a unexperienced player has no chance against a guy who is alive for 300 hours. Perhaps he will be 10% slower, can carry 20% less and will have his 30% chance to mess up the chopper repair. But that's it, it will still just take 1 makarov hit to the head... :D

No achievements, no "ABILITY UNLOCKED!", no level update... just numbers in the background doing their work...

"Knowledge bases process" sounds good, and you gave some good examples. But I think this approach is rather limited. Devs always talk about orientation after the stars... hell yea... good. But that's it more or less ^^ You are not a better shot / hunter / driver / technician depending on your real life skills. I believe this approach is leading nowhere. I understand opposition against a skill system in DayZ. I myself think that it does not fit 100%. But ! Maybe it still is the best way? - It approaches major problems of Dayz (long term motivation / abundance of PvP / little consequence of death). - It is a realistic concept after all to get better in things ;) Only the grapfical display is the unrealistic part. I'd prefer a very simple table with character values form 0-100 for differnt skills - just to check your progress, you don't even have to look at it once.

Perhaps this "you are banned" message was fake. I know hackers frequently make those messages... Did the message also contain a support adress? Did you mail them and gave them your CD-Key? Bye Bye CD Key :D

! Just trust me next time ;D

hmm that might has some truth... anyhow, it will raise the skill ceiling, which is good, so: +1

very good :D you got my beanz